New FAASafety.gov on the way

[Ryan F.]

Thought some folks here might be interested in this. The FAA is aware that the existing FAASafety.gov platform might not be able to fully service the needs of its users and therefore the Administration is in the process of building an entirely new web platform. The new platform will hopefully be much easier to use and airmen interested in integrating WINGS into their flight training activities will be able to do so in a much more intuitive manner.

Here's a video which explains the vision. Interested to hear thoughts...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u3cir61qq0b1atm/SalesForce - Flysafe - Final HD.mp4?dl=0

 

[RussR]

Do you know if they are planning to revamp the WINGS program itself at the same time?

To me, the most confusing part of the WINGS program is the fact that there are multiple levels of WINGS (Basic, Advanced, Master), and multiple phases within those levels. If the idea is for people to seek additional training, why shoehorn it into these compartments?

Further, activities are designated as only counting for a certain Flight or Knowledge topic number. e.g. "Flight 1" or "Knowledge 3". So you have to find something that counts in each of the three flight and knowledge categories to complete the level or phase or whatever.

I view this as unnecessarily structured. Why not just "do any 3 knowledge activities and any 3 flight activities, and there's your Basic Level".

See, now I'm getting confused explaining why it's confusing. That's not a good sign.

I did get a survey from the FAAST and responded with comments.

 

[murphey]

Low bid contract?

 

[smv]

Do you know if they are planning to revamp the WINGS program itself at the same time?

To me, the most confusing part of the WINGS program is the fact that there are multiple levels of WINGS (Basic, Advanced, Master), and multiple phases within those levels. If the idea is for people to seek additional training, why shoehorn it into these compartments?

Further, activities are designated as only counting for a certain Flight or Knowledge topic number. e.g. "Flight 1" or "Knowledge 3". So you have to find something that counts in each of the three flight and knowledge categories to complete the level or phase or whatever.

I view this as unnecessarily structured. Why not just "do any 3 knowledge activities and any 3 flight activities, and there's your Basic Level".

See, now I'm getting confused explaining why it's confusing. That's not a good sign.

I did get a survey from the FAAST and responded with comments.

100% agree. The entire process is too cumbersome. There are some Phase/Topics that can be pretty tough to fill with something relevent enough to your interests and interesting enough to actually complete. I can understand making the different Phases more difficult or challenging as you progress to higher levels, but to have to scour the catalog (which is in and of itself is a complete mess) to find that one course that fills the empty check box is just plain silly.

 

[Lon33]

Like RussR, I too find the multiple levels and topic numbers confusing. Before I retired, I taught Federal Income Tax in law schools, and even wrote a tax book published by the American Bar Association, so I’m accustomed to working with complicated subjects. But I’m having trouble figuring out what I still need to do to satisfy the requirements for completing my next Flight Review. I admit that I haven’t studied the WINGS User Manual with the same degree of intensity that I used when I prepared to teach or write my book. But should that degree of intensity be necessary? RussR’s recommendation shows it doesn’t have to be.

 

[Ryan F.]

Do you know if they are planning to revamp the WINGS program itself at the same time?

To me, the most confusing part of the WINGS program is the fact that there are multiple levels of WINGS (Basic, Advanced, Master), and multiple phases within those levels. If the idea is for people to seek additional training, why shoehorn it into these compartments?

Further, activities are designated as only counting for a certain Flight or Knowledge topic number. e.g. "Flight 1" or "Knowledge 3". So you have to find something that counts in each of the three flight and knowledge categories to complete the level or phase or whatever.

I view this as unnecessarily structured. Why not just "do any 3 knowledge activities and any 3 flight activities, and there's your Basic Level".

See, now I'm getting confused explaining why it's confusing. That's not a good sign.

I did get a survey from the FAAST and responded with comments.

That's all the info I have to share right now, but I'll ask.

A very common comment I've gotten over the years is that WINGS is somewhat difficult to use. At the very least the revamped platform appears to make it much easier to integrate with flight training activities, so it's a nice improvement.

 

[Half Fast]

WINGS is difficult to use, and the website has been challenging to navigate which compounds the problem. Simplifying the website would be a big step in the right direction.

As I understand WINGS, only Basic satisfies a flight review. Is that correct? If so, pilots are faced with repeating Basic over and over, and there'd be less motivation to complete Advanced and Master.

 

[Pugs]

Here's a video which explains the vision. Interested to hear thoughts...

Nice video. Some thoughts.

1) Make sure folks data and credits go over seamlessly from old to new.
2) Keep the old site running for at least 6 months (9 would be better)
3) With the current site I had to enter a lot of data that's in IACRA - connect them so it's pre-populated
4) Don't try and turn it into social media. No one wants another social media platform.
5) Support "subscribe" features that people can tailor to interests so they're aware of opportunities.
6) Looks like it supports scaling and orientation interface differences depending on device. That's great but also make sure it's web browser agnostic. Chrome, IE, Edge, Safari whatever. Nothing is worse than filling a bunch of data out and then the site puking on you when you hit enter.

 

[Ryan F.]

Q: Will the WINGS program be changing?

A: Yes! The WINGS program is under review and will be changing. At present time there is no information about what changes will be taking place as the Administration is in the early phases of this process. Stay tuned.

 

[Half Fast]

Q: Will the WINGS program be changing?

A: Yes! The WINGS program is under review and will be changing. At present time there is no information about what changes will be taking place as the Administration is in the early phases of this process. Stay tuned.

Well, I've seldom seen the USG change something and make it better, but I will admit that Basic Med was one rare example. We shall see.

 

[Skyrys62]

Yes this is good news if it works out..
I think the Wings program has value and I'm glad to see it getting some attention.
I too filled out the survey and the only real comments I had was about the Wings program structure, as others have mentioned.

 

[Ryan F.]

Well, I've seldom seen the USG change something and make it better, but I will admit that Basic Med was one rare example. We shall see.

Part 23 rewrite... ADS-B... NORSEE... Compliance Philosophy... Part 61 currency relief... Part 107... CFIs allowed to issue student pilot and remote pilot certificates... and more... plus, yes, BasicMed... all in the last 5-10 years. You will not see these kinds of improvements in any other country in the world.

 

[Brad W]

I view this as unnecessarily structured. Why not just "do any 3 knowledge activities and any 3 flight activities, and there's your Basic Level".

I agree this new program seems overly complex.

what I remember of the original program... well I think it was the original.... in my memory is started sometime in the few years I was highly active earning my license and rating in the early to mid 1990's. Anyway what I remember of it, it was a very simple program that to me seems like it worked. I like teh simplicity anyway.

Attend a meeting or seminar, then go for a flight...maybe 1 hour...with a CFI. Was basically just a run of the mill BFR except that the ground portion could be something out of the box.... something special interest or fun.... What I remember were just various "guest speakers". And they gave out really nice little wings pins too. First phase was a nice little mini-wings pin. Higher levels added various colored "jewels", maybe wreaths, or other embellishments. Wasn't an expensive thing but looks "classy" enough for me. I still use whatever phase I ended on as a tie tack pin sometimes when I have to wear a tie.

The meeting I remember most was a presentation by a guy, Bruce Fisher I believe it was, that flew on research missions for NASA, flying an F-106 into t-storms trying to get struck by lightning. I learned a ton and it was extremely interesting.

 

[bflynn]

Wings is pretty much useless to me with regards to a FR. Sure, I can take classes and learn a little, but by the time I talk with an instructor for flying, I’m getting an hour on the ground anyway. The only time Izvestia signed off Wings Basic was as a result of a FR, not to accomplish one.

now, if there was a program like 50 hours in a year + 4 quarterly wings activities = FR, I be all over that.

 

[RussR]

Wings is pretty much useless to me with regards to a FR. Sure, I can take classes and learn a little, but by the time I talk with an instructor for flying, I’m getting an hour on the ground anyway. The only time Izvestia signed off Wings Basic was as a result of a FR, not to accomplish one.

now, if there was a program like 50 hours in a year + 4 quarterly wings activities = FR, I be all over that.

If that's how you approach it, then yes, Wings is useless to you. Wings isn't intended to be used as a replacement for a FR that is already due - as in "my FR is due this month, should I do Wings instead?" That's not the idea.

The idea is to encourage people to get ongoing recurring training, to keep their "head in the game" with the online course and such. And if you do enough things, then it counts as a FR.

I have a client who flies with me every couple of months. He's the type that likes to keep continually sharp. He also does some of the online courses. If we targeted what he did towards Wings credit, he could effectively have enough to count for a FR every 6-9 months.

That's the intent of Wings. And I like the intent. But the fact that you have to pick and choose certain activities in the right combination to "count", and can't just do what you see as valuable to yourself and the type of flying you do, really hampers it in my opinion.

 

[Half Fast]

If that's how you approach it, then yes, Wings is useless to you. Wings isn't intended to be used as a replacement for a FR that is already due - as in "my FR is due this month, should I do Wings instead?" That's not the idea.

The idea is to encourage people to get ongoing recurring training, to keep their "head in the game" with the online course and such. And if you do enough things, then it counts as a FR.

I have a client who flies with me every couple of months. He's the type that likes to keep continually sharp. He also does some of the online courses. If we targeted what he did towards Wings credit, he could effectively have enough to count for a FR every 6-9 months.

That's the intent of Wings. And I like the intent. But the fact that you have to pick and choose certain activities in the right combination to "count", and can't just do what you see as valuable to yourself and the type of flying you do, really hampers it in my opinion.

If that's the intent, the courses shouldn't expire as quickly. Courses I take now will not count at all toward my next FR, so I'm motivated to wait until I'm in the window to take them.

 

[Brad W]

If that's how you approach it, then yes, Wings is useless to you. Wings isn't intended to be used as a replacement for a FR that is already due - as in "my FR is due this month, should I do Wings instead?" That's not the idea.

The idea is to encourage people to get ongoing recurring training, to keep their "head in the game" with the online course and such. And if you do enough things, then it counts as a FR.

I have a client who flies with me every couple of months. He's the type that likes to keep continually sharp. He also does some of the online courses. If we targeted what he did towards Wings credit, he could effectively have enough to count for a FR every 6-9 months.

That's the intent of Wings. And I like the intent. But the fact that you have to pick and choose certain activities in the right combination to "count", and can't just do what you see as valuable to yourself and the type of flying you do, really hampers it in my opinion.

agreed. That's how I remember the intent back in the day too. Continuing education.

I used to attend every wings meeting that looked interesting...basically nearly every one that I could. Now that I'm getting back into the game I have reviewed the schedule of upcoming presentations in the same regard... except now the number that I can attend is far fewer due to family obligations, work, etc...

Anyway, even if that wasn't precisely the intent, I think that was the flavor if it. I suspect that like a lot of things, there were one too many meetings or committees formed and the "intent" sorta morphed into something else.

 

[bflynn]

If that's how you approach it, then yes, Wings is useless to you. Wings isn't intended to be used as a replacement for a FR that is already due - as in "my FR is due this month, should I do Wings instead?" That's not the idea.

The idea is to encourage people to get ongoing recurring training, to keep their "head in the game" with the online course and such. And if you do enough things, then it counts as a FR.

I have a client who flies with me every couple of months. He's the type that likes to keep continually sharp. He also does some of the online courses. If we targeted what he did towards Wings credit, he could effectively have enough to count for a FR every 6-9 months.

That's the intent of Wings. And I like the intent. But the fact that you have to pick and choose certain activities in the right combination to "count", and can't just do what you see as valuable to yourself and the type of flying you do, really hampers it in my opinion.

I didn't say that I did not participate. I've been to lots of wings events, less lately because the wings trainings tend to be repetitive or basic. I do also lots of non-wings training. By the time I get to a wings class on a topic, I've probably already read two articles and done a ASI course on it.

But they sell this as a way to get a FR done. It isn't valuable at all in that regard.

 

[Ryan F.]

As Russ and Brad have already recognized, the real intent of WINGS is to promote the value of regular recurrent training which is in excess of the bare minimum flight review requirement of 14 CFR 61.56.

The pot is "sweetened" with various extras but hopefully most pilots would recognize the greatest benefit by far is enhanced proficiency through structured training profiles. The WINGS courses are actually pretty good and well thought out -- if you haven't tried any, pick one sometime with your flight instructor and follow it start to finish. Generally speaking I have been impressed with the thought and care placed into their development.

It will be exciting to see where WINGS goes from here. I only know as much as what has been shared here, but clearly the website is going to be designed to be interactive, more integrated with pilot and instructor objectives, and just be a more streamlined product from top to bottom. If the WINGS enhancements are similar in any way it will really make for a nice improvement to this offering.

 

[frfly172]

The more they revise the program the more complicated it gets to use.

 

[RussR]

If that's the intent, the courses shouldn't expire as quickly. Courses I take now will not count at all toward my next FR, so I'm motivated to wait until I'm in the window to take them.

There is no "window" for a FR. If you're following the intent of the program, you wouldn't be waiting 2 years to try to use your credits. If you take courses periodically, and also fly with a CFI periodically, and you're doing the right ground and flight topics, you may effectively complete a flight review every year. Or every 6 months. Or some other number. Every time you do, it resets the clock and you don't "have" to complete a FR for another two years. But you can if you wish. Which is the same as a regular FR with a CFI - you could do them every month if you want, each one is still good for 24 months.

But they sell this as a way to get a FR done. It isn't valuable at all in that regard.

It depends who "they" is. I agree that it seems like most CFIs who mention the Wings program basically lead with the fact that it counts as a FR. Which is completely the wrong way to approach it. For most people, they don't think about a FR until it's due. And by then, it doesn't make time or financial sense to do the Wings program "instead" of the FR. But for people who continually seek out training, like every few months regardless of the Wings program, then they can get credit for a FR for something they were going to do anyway. That, and encouraging people to do that, is the benefit.

You will note that while I am touting the benefits of recurring training and the Wings program, I personally don't use the Wings program much because it is unnecessarily complicated. Make it simpler and it will get a lot more use, by me included.

 

[Ryan F.]

There is no "window" for a FR. If you're following the intent of the program, you wouldn't be waiting 2 years to try to use your credits. If you take courses periodically, and also fly with a CFI periodically, and you're doing the right ground and flight topics, you may effectively complete a flight review every year. Or every 6 months. Or some other number. Every time you do, it resets the clock and you don't "have" to complete a FR for another two years. But you can if you wish. Which is the same as a regular FR with a CFI - you could do them every month if you want, each one is still good for 24 months.



It depends who "they" is. I agree that it seems like most CFIs who mention the Wings program basically lead with the fact that it counts as a FR. Which is completely the wrong way to approach it. For most people, they don't think about a FR until it's due. And by then, it doesn't make time or financial sense to do the Wings program "instead" of the FR. But for people who continually seek out training, like every few months regardless of the Wings program, then they can get credit for a FR for something they were going to do anyway. That, and encouraging people to do that, is the benefit.