New CTAF Frequency - Surprise

WDD

WDD

Final Approach
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Vintage Snazzy (so my adult children say)
Made a lunch date run to a local airport with wife on Monday to Rome GA (KRMG).

Got the AWOS, and started making calls on CTAF. 5 miles out or so a friendly pilot pops on and informs that the field's CTAF has changed from 130.0 to 129.75 Switch and listen into people in the area.

Did I miss something? A month earlier I updated my notes on airports. Before I took off that morning I looked at weather and NOTUMS, didn't see anything.

Turns out the frequency change happened 10 days prior. So it didn't show up on current NOTUMS, nor on the recent expired NOTUMS. After getting home I found it on the "Old" NOTUS, older than 7 days. The friendly FBO guy said there were a lot of people still using the old frequency.

My responsibility for finding these things, but something this important IMHO was buried a bit and could have been better communicated, perhaps with a message on the AWOS, etc.
 
upload_2022-6-1_11-8-24.png

Did you call Flight Services prior to your flight?
 
Was the new freq not on the sectional? I try not to memorize freqs unless it’s my home airport. Recent CTAF frequency change for an airport I visit was broadcast on the AWOS, even long after it changed.
 
WDD said:
Made a lunch date run to a local airport with wife on Monday to Rome GA (KRMG).

Got the AWOS, and started making calls on CTAF. 5 miles out or so a friendly pilot pops on and informs that the field's CTAF has changed from 130.0 to 129.75 Switch and listen into people in the area.

Did I miss something? A month earlier I updated my notes on airports. Before I took off that morning I looked at weather and NOTUMS, didn't see anything.

Turns out the frequency change happened 10 days prior. So it didn't show up on current NOTUMS, nor on the recent expired NOTUMS. After getting home I found it on the "Old" NOTUS, older than 7 days. The friendly FBO guy said there were a lot of people still using the old frequency.

My responsibility for finding these things, but something this important IMHO was buried a bit and could have been better communicated, perhaps with a message on the AWOS, etc.
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You could file an ASRS report letting the FAA know how crappy dissemination of NOTAMs are. Sounds like you did what you were supposed to do.
 
Weird that it shows up for other people

6abca6ebe722da718934e451f29af5cb.jpg
 
I’ve been flying into RMG for 25 years. Recently, I was dropping off some passengers with a copilot who had also been a local area CFI. I jokingly said, “Unless it’s changed, the CTAF is 123.00.” When we walked into the FBO, we saw the signs all over announcing the upcoming change. The notam hadn’t been published yet, but I’d like to think I would have caught it.
 
uh, call ??? like, on the tellyphone??
 
eman1200 said:
uh, call ??? like, on the tellyphone??
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Unless it’s a completely new airport I just don’t call the FBO or WX Brief every time I fly. I don’t think anyone does.
 
WDD said:
Unless it’s a completely new airport I just don’t call the FBO or WX Brief every time I fly. I don’t think anyone does.
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that was kinda my point. should have included a big giant /s
 
Not an uncommon occurrence when an airport changes CTAF frequency, or even when an airport gains a control tower. There is always the issue of someone using old information, or if familiar with the airport perhaps not always getting a briefing. I'll admit, do I get a full briefing for a trip around the pattern?

A few points I've seen mentioned I'd touch on.

Not all ASOS/AWOS have the ability to add messages to the broadcast. Some these days do, and it has created a lot of confusion when people expect the ASOS/AWOS to include NOTAMs and other information like an ATIS does. An ASOS/AWOS system is a automated weather observation station, and that's all it should be depended on to provide.

The NOTAM probably didn't pop right up, because it was issued more than 30 days ago. That's why you had to scroll further down on FF. Keep that in mind, that FF uses the issued date as a filter.

Also, once the information has been published in the next revision of the chart and chart supplement, there is no longer a requirement for a NOTAM. That can be sneaky if a NOTAM gets issued, and the chart update cycle happens quickly. Something like a frequency change might not catch your attention on a sectional. Especially if its an airport you frequent a lot, because how often do you use a chart to find your favorite airport?
 
WDD said:
Made a lunch date run to a local airport with wife on Monday to Rome GA (KRMG).

Got the AWOS, and started making calls on CTAF. 5 miles out or so a friendly pilot pops on and informs that the field's CTAF has changed from 130.0 to 129.75 Switch and listen into people in the area.

Did I miss something? A month earlier I updated my notes on airports. Before I took off that morning I looked at weather and NOTUMS, didn't see anything.

Turns out the frequency change happened 10 days prior. So it didn't show up on current NOTUMS, nor on the recent expired NOTUMS. After getting home I found it on the "Old" NOTUS, older than 7 days. The friendly FBO guy said there were a lot of people still using the old frequency.

My responsibility for finding these things, but something this important IMHO was buried a bit and could have been better communicated, perhaps with a message on the AWOS, etc.
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You sure it's not 122.725? And I'm curious why you'd expect NOTAMs to be the most likely place to find the current CTAF frequency.

upload_2022-6-1_13-26-42.png

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§ 91.103 Preflight action.
Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight.
 
Lindberg said:
....And I'm curious why you'd expect NOTAMs to be the most likely place to find the current CTAF frequency.....
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I don't even think the OP is saying to get CTAF from NOTAMS, but you would expect to see a freq CHANGE in NOTAMS. which most of us do see but the OP for some reason didn't see.
 
I see it in NOTAMs if I scroll down to the past 30 days, below the current and past 7 days. I would have thought a recent change like that would have popped up higher and have been more visible. I’ll scroll more in the future.

I’m the guy flying so yes it’s on me to figure this all out one way or another.
 
WDD said:
I see it in NOTAMs if I scroll down to the past 30 days, below the current and past 7 days. I would have thought a recent change like that would have popped up higher and have been more visible. I’ll scroll more in the future.

I’m the guy flying so yes it’s on me to figure this all out one way or another.
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what source are you looking at where you have to scroll through 30+ days of notams?
 
eman1200 said:
I don't even think the OP is saying to get CTAF from NOTAMS, but you would expect to see a freq CHANGE in NOTAMS. which most of us do see but the OP for some reason didn't see.
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But he didn't look at the sources where frequencies are published.... I used the wrong CTAF frequency once bc I had an expired chart. I was surprised because I didn't realize the chart was expired, but it's really not a big deal. But I certainly wouldn't be surprised if I didn't have the right frequency having not looked up the frequency in the first place. :dunno:
 
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iFly has the correct CTAF listed ...
 
You do remember reading this (image below) from the https://notams.aim.faa.gov website?

And pretty much any source that isn’t 1800wxbrief will say something similar in the fine print.
I am still not sure about Foreflight, because I haven’t determined if foreflight has any record of the Notams they showed you. If they did it properly it would use your 1800wxbrief login and pull it from their website, just like you had logged in without foreflight. But maybe they have some other system or agreement with the FAA to make it acceptable and accessible to FAA investigators. If you have source please let me know.

If you had a mid-air collision or other event that got the FAA involved, they would be checking, and 1800wxbrief is the only source I know for sure records the interaction. Showing the FAA web site is good, but does not prove that the official source 1800wxbrief wouldn’t have advised you of the Notam.

FAR 91.103 doesn’t say it doesn’t apply to 1/2 hour hamburger flights.

Just because almost no-one checks on those flights and we get away with it 99.9% of the time doesn’t mean it is right or absolves you of your responsibilities.

Yes, I have my CFI hat on at the moment and the above is pretty much what I would tell you during your flight review with me.

BTW our local airport KEUL had the frequency changed recently also. The 1st the airport manager heard of it taking effect was when he was notified the Notam has been posted. Then he was playing catch up to get things like the AWOS and airport signage updated.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL


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brcase said:
...FAR 91.103 doesn’t say it doesn’t apply to 1/2 hour hamburger flights.

Just because almost no-one checks on those flights and we get away with it 99.9% of the time....
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speak for yourself. I can count on half of one hand the # of times I didn't do a briefing in 10 years, which includes getting notams. but I haven't called wxvbrief since primary training, I use their website to brief.
 
This thread reminds me of I flight I had to State College, PA for the Penn State/Alabama game when they were both ranked in the Top Ten. There were over 200 planes arriving around the same time. The Tower had only been open for 3 weeks and New York is vectoring folks out to a 20 to 30 mile final. The controller is issuing instructions rapid fire without a break when a Baron pilot says, “Hey New York, I know they have a new tower there, can you give me the ATIS, Tower and Ground frequencies, because they aren’t in my GPS database yet.” (Not once, but twice) The very ****ed off controller responded, “its not my job to update your charts for you, I’ll give them to you as you need them!”. Then, as we were touching down, the tower says, “Helicopter on short final at State College, say tail number” to no response. We turned off in time to see a military helicopter do a low pass down the runway and depart the area without ever talking to the tower. I imagine they pooped themselves when they noticed the extremely crowded ramp as they flew by.

So yeah, always check NOTAMS.
 
Once something is published in the chart supplement, etc., there won't be a NOTAM. The problem was the failure to check the chart supplement and sectional chart, which the FAA would consider a clear violation of 91.103.
 
WDD said:
Before I took off that morning I looked at weather and NOTUMS, didn't see anything. ...something this important IMHO was buried a bit and could have been better communicated, perhaps with a message on the AWOS, etc.
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I guess I'm one of the 12 people in the world who has never used Foreflight, so I don't know how it displays NOTAMs. I still use Weathermeister, and I'd hardly say it was buried--it's right there. So maybe you need to reconsider how you review NOTAMs?
upload_2022-6-2_6-3-23.png
 
Dave Theisen said:
The very ****ed off controller responded, “its not my job to update your charts for you, I’ll give them to you as you need them!”. Then, as we were touching down, the tower says, “Helicopter on short final at State College, say tail number” to no response. We turned off in time to see a military helicopter do a low pass down the runway and depart the area without ever talking to the tower. I imagine they pooped themselves when they noticed the extremely crowded ramp as they flew by.

So yeah, always check NOTAMS.
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I've seen that happen once at another airport that had a control tower added. In the first few weeks they had numerous aircraft that didn't get the NOTAM, but I was visiting one day when a Jet Ranger came in and hover taxied down the parallel taxiway until they noticed the tower folks standing there looking at them. I can only imagine what was going through their mind.

I've been on the opposite side of that once, going into an airport that apparently used to have a tower. Another green PPL and I were out playing pilot/safety pilot and flying cross countries together when we visited an airport that only showed a CTAF frequency on the sectional, approach plates, and A/FD. As we were rolling out down the runway we noticed the control tower and both had an "Oh S@#%" moment. We frantically looked at all the information we had available as we taxied to the FBO. We sheepishly asked the line staff about the control tower once we shut down, and they were said, "Oh yeah, its been closed for a year." Big sigh of relief.
 
Jim_R said:
I guess I'm one of the 12 people in the world who has never used Foreflight, so I don't know how it displays NOTAMs. I still use Weathermeister, and I'd hardly say it was buried--it's right there. So maybe you need to reconsider how you review NOTAMs?
View attachment 107396
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He posted a picture of it above. They're grouped by date.
 
WDD said:
I see it in NOTAMs if I scroll down to the past 30 days, below the current and past 7 days. I would have thought a recent change like that would have popped up higher and have been more visible. I’ll scroll more in the future.

I’m the guy flying so yes it’s on me to figure this all out one way or another.
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NOTAM aside.....didn't the sectional, GPS database, airport data page in FF, the chart supplement entry, etc...all say 122.725 (they do now, but perhaps I'm late to the party and this flight happened at a time where ALL of those sources still had 123.00 and the ONLY reference was the new NOTAM), but you used a set of notes that you'd compiled 10 days before? I do see the value in planning out flights ahead of time, don't get me wrong, but are you literally writing down a lot of info for the flight and then not referencing any databases once airborne? If so, I'm not seeing the value as you have ForeFlight, based on your posts, and it doesn't take but a minute to reference it in flight.

If, on the other hand, they updated the CTAF in mid-cycle, in which case ONLY the NOTAM was correct, then I have a better picture of how that could happen.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Also, once the information has been published in the next revision of the chart and chart supplement, there is no longer a requirement for a NOTAM. That can be sneaky if a NOTAM gets issued, and the chart update cycle happens quickly. Something like a frequency change might not catch your attention on a sectional. Especially if its an airport you frequent a lot, because how often do you use a chart to find your favorite airport?
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That's why I always let the GPS set the COM frequency. :)
 
WDD said:
I see it in NOTAMs if I scroll down to the past 30 days, below the current and past 7 days. I would have thought a recent change like that would have popped up higher and have been more visible. I’ll scroll more in the future.

I’m the guy flying so yes it’s on me to figure this all out one way or another.
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Its because FF thinks its being helpful by sorting, but it is just burying 'stuff'. If you search here:
https://notams.aim.faa.gov/notamSearch/nsapp.html#/results

That freq change is the first item listed. Maybe they sort by importance on that site? I don't know.
 
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