New CH-53K Marine Corps Helicopter May Cost More Than the F-35

You can buy 6 Black Hawks for 1 King Stallion! Seriously though, the Marines need it. Their readiness rates suck right now. There's a broke CH-53E at CHA that's been sitting there about 2 months! I think they should just put it on a stick by the airport entrance with a "Welcome to Chattanooga" sign. :D
 
Lot of questions about what USMC wants out of its air wings in the future-

Very rare to use heavy lift for any of its unique capability- I.e. what a couple extra waves of the already over-priced and under-performing Ospreys couldn't do... Same thing when we look at all the sensors the F-35 pump data through, fusion that the Marines aren't really looking to harness for the cost it's incurring.

If the future is over the horizon, what is heavy lift doing and where does it fit?
 
John Bussard said:
Lot of questions about what USMC wants out of its air wings in the future-

Very rare to use heavy lift for any of its unique capability- I.e. what a couple extra waves of the already over-priced and under-performing Ospreys couldn't do... Same thing when we look at all the sensors the F-35 pump data through, fusion that the Marines aren't really looking to harness for the cost it's incurring.

If the future is over the horizon, what is heavy lift doing and where does it fit?
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I'd say the HOGE performance (5,000-6,000 ft) on the MV-22 alone will keep a heavy lift helo like the 53 around for a long time. There were many high altitude insertions / resupplies in Afghanistan that Ospreys just wouldn't be able to pull off. It does high speed, long range, medium load well but a fast rope at 10,000 ft ain't happening.
 
Velocity173 said:
I'd say the HOGE performance (5,000-6,000 ft) on the MV-22 alone will keep a heavy lift helo like the 53 around for a long time. There were many high altitude insertions / resupplies in Afghanistan that Ospreys just wouldn't be able to pull off. It does high speed, long range, medium load well but a fast rope at 10,000 ft ain't happening.
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Speaking from ignorance here, but does a fast rope at 10,000 ft happen anywhere? I must have a misconception about what fast roping is.
 
JOhnH said:
Speaking from ignorance here, but does a fast rope at 10,000 ft happen anywhere? I must have a misconception about what fast roping is.
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He's talking about a 10k foot piece of terrain. Think the mountain fast rope insertion in the movie Lone Survivor.
 
JOhnH said:
Speaking from ignorance here, but does a fast rope at 10,000 ft happen anywhere? I must have a misconception about what fast roping is.
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The mountains in Afghanistan reach elevations of over 20,000 ft. Fast rope at 10k? Yup.
 
JOhnH said:
Speaking from ignorance here, but does a fast rope at 10,000 ft happen anywhere? I must have a misconception about what fast roping is.
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Doesn't happen that often but I'd say half the fast rope missions in Afghanistan were above the HOGE ceiling of the V-22. Someone mentioned Lone Survivor. Sawtalo Sar (Op Red Wings) is a 9,280 ft mountain that they inserted on. Take the Battle of Takur Ghar (Roberts Ridge). That peak is 11,000 ft up. While I believe they actually landed on that one, it's a pinnacle so you can't really call it true IGE so you better plan on requiring HOGE power. Those are operations that an Osprey will never be able to perform even with the upgraded RR engines they're getting. It's just a limitation of tilt rotors due to their high disk loading.

Interesting read on the AF 2010 accident in Afghanistan. As the 160th Col points out, the Osprey would never suite the high altitude Army mission.

http://www.g2mil.com/qalat.htm
 
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John Bussard said:
Lot of questions about what USMC wants out of its air wings in the future-

Very rare to use heavy lift for any of its unique capability- I.e. what a couple extra waves of the already over-priced and under-performing Ospreys couldn't do... Same thing when we look at all the sensors the F-35 pump data through, fusion that the Marines aren't really looking to harness for the cost it's incurring.

If the future is over the horizon, what is heavy lift doing and where does it fit?
Click to expand...
Maybe we've had different experiences, but aren't you a pointy nose guy?

In my experience in the ARG/MEU world, the heavy lift capability of the H-53s has definitely been a vital component of the ACE. We've definitely had logistical movements that needed the -53 and multiple MV-22s just can't cut it. They do well for the majority of the lifts, but you still want to maintain the heavy lift option.

The real issue here though is obviously the cost. It doesn't need to cost that much, but the decisions made early on in the development of the K have resulted in the high price tag.

The problem is that it really is virtually an entirely different airframe. It just kind of looks like a 53 from a distance. Composite construction. Nothing really interchangeable with the legacy 53s as I understand it talking to the requirements folks who were involved in the development.

In other words, if we really wanted, we could have a new heavy lift hell for the ACE for much cheaper.

But, like so many other defense programs, no one wants to be the guy to say no and throw away all the money we have already spent on the program.....so we lobby to spend even more to fix it.
 
Guess we all better "pay our fair share", it pleases the crown to have more killing machines.
 
With a slingload no less.

 
JOhnH said:
Speaking from ignorance here, but does a fast rope at 10,000 ft happen anywhere? I must have a misconception about what fast roping is.
Click to expand...

LOL you thought they fast roped from 10K agl? Whew that'd be a ride! And some very thick gloves.
 
mscard88 said:
LOL you thought they fast roped from 10K agl? Whew that'd be a ride! And some very thick gloves.
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No.
I KNEW they didn't fast rope from 10k ft. But I never heard anyone speak about fastroping using MSL before.
 
mscard88 said:
LOL you thought they fast roped from 10K agl? Whew that'd be a ride! And some very thick gloves.
Click to expand...
BTW,
Good to have you back.
If we are going to talk about stupid sh*^&/ uh stuff, here, we might as well talk about something with a socially redeeming value.

Like boobies!
 
JOhnH, thanks for that. But listen, you need to very careful around boobies. They are addicting. :crazy: :drool:
 
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