New Cessna Aircraft - SkyCourier

Sluggo63 said:
It looks like FedEx is going to have some new pipeline system from our feeder corps to mainline flying.

That’s definitely a shift in thinking for us.
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They see the pilot shortage coming. Smart move.
 
Eric Gleason said:
I didn't realize that contractors were flying the Caravans. Is that true on all of the routes? A guy I used to fly with took a job flying Caravans from Albany to Newark (I think) and I could swear that he said he was working for FedEx. Usually the people who work for a subcontractor give the name of the company that signs their checks when asked who they work for.
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When I flew at ASA (Delta Connection) we had some young pilots who bought and placed Delta tags and logos on their overnight and flight bags. I just shook my head...
 
mscard88 said:
They see the pilot shortage coming. Smart move.
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Already here. But the macro change that’s also at play is use of more cheap aircraft rather than big expensive aircraft.

FedEx obviously sees a capitalization problem brewing at their feeders. They can’t afford to upgrade their fleets and the old flow of aircraft out of regionals flying turboprops isn’t there anymore.

No 1900’s, no Metros, no ATRs and FedEx doesn’t want to pay feeders to fly hand me down Barbie jets... won’t work...

Feeders are flying all the 90s regional airliners now. Nothing coming out of that pipe when the oldest Barbie jets retire.

Strategically getting someone to build them a custom and cheap twin hauler with no complex systems seems sound. Those drawings don’t even make it look like it’s a retract. No pressurization, no retract, no fancy systems, no long training time in sims... this is “Cheap Hauler 101” built to their spec.

Wonder what UPS will do? They don’t seem to have a plan for the 90s airliners slowly turning to trash.

(The entire south ramp at the end of my hangar row is full of dead Metroliners with so many parts stolen from them for Key Lime, that the only way they’re ever leaving the airport is if they’re broken up and stuffed on a flatbed. It’s ugly as crap but Key Lime pays for “parking” for all that scrap heap garbage so they can keep tearing parts off of them. Denver Jet Center doesn’t care how that looks. They even have a couple of Dorniers that flew in and had their engines stolen off of them sitting in a large parking area eroding away. Love to see how they’ll ever get those off the field. Such is the life of a freight company these days, I guess.)
 
What purpose do these short flights serve for Fed Ex/UPS? At first glance, it would appear that these trips are too short to make a significant difference in time and you can haul more for less with a truck then with these smaller planes. I know Fed Ex has a Caravan that flies at night from Scranton to Harrisburg and I always wondered why when its only a 2 hour drive.
 
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FlyingTiger said:
What purpose do these short flights serve for Fed Ex/UPS? At first glance, it would appear that these trips are too short to make a significant difference in time from ground transport and you can haul a lot more in a truck then in these small planes.
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Time factor. But FedEx does use trucks too, like say from Atlanta to Birmingham, a few hours down the interstate. Use to fly checks at night into MEM, and back then after 9-10 at night it was amazing to see all the FedEx jets coming and going. They were flying the Falcons (10s or 20s?) and 727s then, and I think MEM was their only hub. Late 70s.
 
FlyingTiger said:
What purpose do these short flights serve for Fed Ex/UPS? At first glance, it would appear that these trips are too short to make a significant difference in time and you can haul more for less with a truck then with these smaller planes. I know Fed Ex has a Caravan that flies at night from Scranton to Harrisburg and I always wondered why when its only a 2 hour drive.
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Out west the story is a little different. The flights make it out for the 10 a.m. or so deliveries (can't do that by truck from DIA to Scottsbluff, NE) then hang around for the day and pick up the overnight stuff on their return route. The crews get to hang out for the day in wonderful, wonderful spots like Rawlins, WY and Alamosa, CO. I'm sure the crews just love their down time in such garden spots.
 
FlyingTiger said:
What purpose do these short flights serve for Fed Ex/UPS? At first glance, it would appear that these trips are too short to make a significant difference in time and you can haul more for less with a truck then with these smaller planes. I know Fed Ex has a Caravan that flies at night from Scranton to Harrisburg and I always wondered why when its only a 2 hour drive.
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It's all about time. If you can tell customers that they have an extra hour to drop off, it can increase business. There's a huge market in warehouses run by UPS and FedEx at there hubs. It allows orders to be processed much later into the evening.

This is why the 406 is an important part of the equation. By accepting cans or ULDs, they reduce the load and unload time. All of the ATRs and Caravans have to be bulk loaded. Minutes count.
 
When I read the article, my initial thoughts were why isn't FEDEX buying C-27's. They are made for short haul cargo and if the USAF wasn't so down on props or the Army so up on the CH-47 they wouldn't have abandoned them in the desert. I think they are still making them in Italy.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Spec sheet I read lists Service Ceiling: 25,000ft
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. I've been in the low 20's for a few hours at a time mapping in a 404. A PT-6 won't break a sweat. Strap on your mask! :eek:
 
cgrab said:
When I read the article, my initial thoughts were why isn't FEDEX buying C-27's. They are made for short haul cargo and if the USAF wasn't so down on props or the Army so up on the CH-47 they wouldn't have abandoned them in the desert. I think they are still making them in Italy.
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Military craft tend to be very expensive to maintain. Low cost MX is not a design criteria.

Tim
 
mscard88 said:
When I flew at ASA (Delta Connection) we had some young pilots who bought and placed Delta tags and logos on their overnight and flight bags. I just shook my head...
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Maybe it's a generational thing. It's been a long while, but every time I met a pilot at the airport lounge or knew someone personally, they never said they flew for the marquee on the plane unless that was who hired them.

FlyingTiger said:
What purpose do these short flights serve for Fed Ex/UPS? At first glance, it would appear that these trips are too short to make a significant difference in time and you can haul more for less with a truck then with these smaller planes. I know Fed Ex has a Caravan that flies at night from Scranton to Harrisburg and I always wondered why when its only a 2 hour drive.
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I always wondered this too. Albany to Newark is maybe 2 1/2 hours by truck, and is maybe a 45 minute flight, plus taxi time. Is shaving an hour and a half off the transit time that critical to the operation?
 
Eric Gleason said:
Maybe it's a generational thing. It's been a long while, but every time I met a pilot at the airport lounge or knew someone personally, they never said they flew for the marquee on the plane unless that was who hired them.
I always wondered this too. Albany to Newark is maybe 2 1/2 hours by truck, and is maybe a 45 minute flight, plus taxi time. Is shaving an hour and a half off the transit time that critical to the operation?
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Maybe there's traffic backups that consistently turn that 2 1/2 hours by truck into 4 hours and you have next day guaranteed freight...

Maybe it depends whom the pilot is talking to?
If he's talking to another "in the know" pilot, he may be more upfront, but if he's talking to someone "not in the know" it might be easier just to say you fly for thr big guy rather than explaining the contractual world.
 
FlyingTiger said:
What purpose do these short flights serve for Fed Ex/UPS? At first glance, it would appear that these trips are too short to make a significant difference in time and you can haul more for less with a truck then with these smaller planes. I know Fed Ex has a Caravan that flies at night from Scranton to Harrisburg and I always wondered why when its only a 2 hour drive.
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Example: last weekend I ordered a couple pocket knifes off Amazon at 1:09 am. It was in my maibox at 11:30 am. I'm in Los Angeles, it came from the North Las Vegas wherhouse. I doubt this could of happend with trucks doing the few hundred miles trip.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Maybe there's traffic backups that consistently turn that 2 1/2 hours by truck into 4 hours and you have next day guaranteed freight...
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Honestly, in the middle of the night, those roads are pretty clear. The chances of getting stuck are pretty slim.

According to flight aware, they flew 2 Caravans there last night. Assuming they were packed full, together they carried about 1 truckload of packages.
 
Eric Gleason said:
Maybe it's a generational thing. It's been a long while, but every time I met a pilot at the airport lounge or knew someone personally, they never said they flew for the marquee on the plane unless that was who hired them.
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What's your point? I stand by my comment, and have even heard pilots and FAs say they flew for the major we provided lift for.
 
I wasn't being argumentative, sorry if it came off that way. I was just being observant.
 
mscard88 said:
have even heard pilots and FAs say they flew for the major we provided lift for.
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Interesting issue. I've no connection with the industry, just curious. Does management "encourage" flight crews about branding one way or the other? Do they say (or imply), "Joe Blow Passenger bought a Delta ticket; there's a Delta logo on the tail of this CRJ; so we need to create the illusion he's on Delta" ... ?
 
Pilawt said:
Interesting issue. I've no connection with the industry, just curious. Does management "encourage" flight crews about branding one way or the other? Do they say (or imply), "Joe Blow Passenger bought a Delta ticket; there's a Delta logo on the tail of this CRJ; so we need to create the illusion he's on Delta" ... ?
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No, management doesn't encourage it. Just a few that try to impress others that they fly for the major partner. Ego thing I guess.
 
I usually just say the regional and Delta Connection, which follows up with “ohhh you fly for Delta!?!?!?” After realizing I’m getting no where, I just say “yes.” (Secretly crying inside wishing I did)
 
GlennAB1 said:
LOL, No. One of the local FBO's takes care of that. He wanders around, keeping trash cans emptied... kinda strainge...
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My brother-in-law's wife's brother in law (how's that for a relation to me) works for Southwest as a ticket agent. Says he works "in the industry". Is that the way ticket agents usually refer to it?
 
I travel in the Caribbean as much as I can and this kind of plane is king down there. They will absolutely love it... if they can afford it. Twin Otters, Islanders, and twin Cessnas are the work horses in the islands. Speed and looks are not important. Reliability, robustness, simplicity and cargo capacity matter most. There are tons of places in the world where they need this plane and the Twin Otters are getting old. Sadly, these same places need planes on a budget and any new plane from Cessna is not going to be cheap.
 
Viking is still making new Twin Otters. I doubt the Cessna will have the STOL and rough field capabilitys of the Twin Otter, but that is probably not needed in 90% of the jobs the Twin Otters are doing today.
 
The key is reducing loading/unloading time by using ULD. When they bulk load a plane, often they roll up a ULD and manually transfer the freight into the plane. I was talking with a former Aneriflight EMB-120 pilot and he was saying it would save at least an hour.
 
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