New ATC Tower Question

[ARFlyer]

I learned yesterday that a local airport, KHOT, is getting its tower back. KHOT use to have a tower way back but got closed. The interesting thing is that it will be a National Guard staffed tower with no military flights.

We use this airport multiple times a day for practice ILS and VOR approaches. At any given time we may be ILS inbound with a VOR guy turning out bound. So how will this affect our use of these approaches? The nearest radar facility is Little Rock 50NM away.

I only have experience shooting multiple approaches at Class E fields. Normally we only do full stop approaches at towered fields.

Also any idea if this will be Class D w/ or w/o a TRSA?

I am happy for this tower as it is badly needed. I've had numerous close calls while doing practices approaches or just flying in. Even last night I noticed a guy landing on the crossing runway while I was on my takeoff roll. Thankfully I noticed his strobes.

 

[bobmrg]

AIM 4-3-21 for separation rules. The feds are doing away with TRSAs, so that is a non-starter...it will be Class D airspace.

Bob Gardner

 

[ARFlyer]

AIM 4-3-21 for separation rules. The feds are doing away with TRSAs, so that is a non-starter...it will be Class D airspace.

Bob Gardner

All it states is you have to notify ATC and they can deny the request. I was more talking about is there a limitation on the number of aircraft shooting a approach. Like 2 guys doing the ILS and one guy inbound for the full VOR.

At times I have seen up to 5 people trying to jockey a practice approach. 1 ILS out bound, 1 FAF in bound, 1 Procedure turn, 1 heading for the VOR and one guy on the missed. On my IFR checkride I had to stay high outbound because another fellow pilot was inbound with a nasty headwind. The examiner said its insane and stupid how many pilots are shooting approaches at the same time.

 

[Velocity173]

If you're doing all these practice approaches VFR nothing should change. Standard IFR seperation is 3-5 miles or 1,000 ft. With your new tower I'm sure visual seperation will be delegated to them as well. You'll be able to get more IFR aircraft in and out of the field now.

 

[dottat]

AIM 4-3-21 for separation rules. The feds are doing away with TRSAs, so that is a non-starter...it will be Class D airspace.

Bob Gardner

Doing away with trsa's? Care to elaborate?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[flyingron]

The only ones that are there are the historical ones. They're not making new ones. Most that were worth anything were converted into ARSAs (Class C).

 

[Twin_Flyer]

I learned yesterday that a local airport, KHOT, is getting its tower back. KHOT use to have a tower way back but got closed. The interesting thing is that it will be a National Guard staffed tower with no military flights.

We use this airport multiple times a day for practice ILS and VOR approaches. At any given time we may be ILS inbound with a VOR guy turning out bound. So how will this affect our use of these approaches? The nearest radar facility is Little Rock 50NM away.

I only have experience shooting multiple approaches at Class E fields. Normally we only do full stop approaches at towered fields.

Also any idea if this will be Class D w/ or w/o a TRSA?

I am happy for this tower as it is badly needed. I've had numerous close calls while doing practices approaches or just flying in. Even last night I noticed a guy landing on the crossing runway while I was on my takeoff roll. Thankfully I noticed his strobes.

You most likely will be surprised when the chaos goes away. Traffic management in the airport traffic area is the responsibility of the tower. Conflicts from multiple approach types won’t be allowed if the traffic conflicts can’t be resolved. Our towered airport has both civilian and military aircraft shooting approached mixed with VFR training and airlines (regional carriers) arriving and departing.
You didn’t say if you use ATC doing your practice approaches, but if it’s available you may have to use their services. They will get things organized as everyone get setup for the approaches.
Bottom line is that you should see an increase in safety around the airport. Sounds like it’s needed...

 

[ARFlyer]

You most likely will be surprised when the chaos goes away. Traffic management in the airport traffic area is the responsibility of the tower. Conflicts from multiple approach types won’t be allowed if the traffic conflicts can’t be resolved. Our towered airport has both civilian and military aircraft shooting approached mixed with VFR training and airlines (regional carriers) arriving and departing.
You didn’t say if you use ATC doing your practice approaches, but if it’s available you may have to use their services. They will get things organized as everyone get setup for the approaches.
Bottom line is that you should see an increase in safety around the airport. Sounds like it’s needed...

We don't call up MEM CTR when doing the approaches at KHOT. Its to much of a hassle and most of the time they are "busy".

 

[Twin_Flyer]

We don't call up MEM CTR when doing the approaches at KHOT. Its to much of a hassle and most of the time they are "busy".

It's a safety issue for us. With the regionals coming and going and the military on there own freqs. we just can't operate safely without using approach control.

 

[bobmrg]

Doing away with trsa's? Care to elaborate?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

FlyingRon nailed it, as usual. You can tell from reading AIM 3-5-6 that the FAA is no longer interested in TRSAs.

Bob

 

[BillTIZ]

If it is a Class D tower, they may not have an IFR capability and not able to seperate traffic on instrument approaches, even VFR traffic. They are only responsible for seperation of traffic on the runways and may direct turns in the immediate vicinity to control arrival spacing on the runway. They can only recommend headings or altitudes, or advise aircraft of each others location. They cannot control what they cannot see, miles away.

They may have a "repeater display" from a local radar facility for situational awareness. They may not be qualified/authorized to use it for seperation of IFR traffic.

If they are a non radar IFR facility, that means one in , one out or timed approaches for consecutive aircraft on the ILS. It's hard to predict how that will impact "VFR practice approaches" as many procedure turns may be outside the Class D surface area if they are strictly a VFR tower.

It all depends on what level the tower is certified. VFR, IFR, and what equipment, radar vs non radar.

 

[dottat]

FlyingRon nailed it, as usual. You can tell from reading AIM 3-5-6 that the FAA is no longer interested in TRSAs.

Bob

Gotcha... I live ten minutes from MDT and they have talked about going class charlie for years. I think the slump in ga has hurt that effort though. They have actually come to our classes and asked for student traffic to bolster their numbers.

Personally I enjoy flying there...single runway and you could be up there with some pretty neat planes that like to visit from dover and Andrews afb.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[flyingron]

In many of the more metropolitan areas tower or not, you've got an approach control that can see pretty much from pattern altitude (or below) up. You can typically get radar service IFR or VFR in short order. Designating a TRSA is entirely superfluous. Places they remain primarily fall into the "we don't meet the requirements for a Class C but we really wish VFR's would contact approach rather than popping up at the class D boundary on the tower" category. Even some of the busier class D towers don't bother even if the service were available (places like TEB, GYY, etc... come to mind).

 

[airdale]

It all depends on what level the tower is certified. VFR, IFR, and what equipment, radar vs non radar.

I know some towers have TRACON radar repeaters, some have their own radar, and some have no radar but I've never heard of this notion that there are IFR and VFR towers. Can someone explain? Practical effect on inbound or outbound IFR traffic? TIA

 

[weilke]

I know some towers have TRACON radar repeaters, some have their own radar, and some have no radar but I've never heard of this notion that there are IFR and VFR towers. Can someone explain? Practical effect on inbound or outbound IFR traffic? TIA

Independent from whether they have radar. A ifr tower has a terminal and staff certified to enter flight plans and pull strips from the national airspace computer. A vfr tower calls a larger facility to get takeoff clearances and enter flightplans.

 

[airdale]

A ifr tower has a terminal and staff certified to enter flight plans and pull strips from the national airspace computer. A vfr tower calls a larger facility to get takeoff clearances and enter flightplans.

Thanks. So from a pilot's perspective there is no difference except that some requests might be slightly delayed by a phone call?

Re flight strips, if I am inbound IFR to a VFR tower they will have a strip, no? How could they not have one?

 

[roncachamp]

I know some towers have TRACON radar repeaters, some have their own radar, and some have no radar but I've never heard of this notion that there are IFR and VFR towers. Can someone explain? Practical effect on inbound or outbound IFR traffic? TIA

Nonapproach control towers are commonly referred to as VFR towers. They are towers where authority and responsibility for IFR and SVFR operations is held by another facility, a TRACON or ARTCC. Although it is common for some operations to be delegated to the tower by the IFR facility. From the Pilot/Controller Glossary:

NONAPPROACH CONTROL TOWER− Authorizes
aircraft to land or takeoff at the airport controlled
by the tower or to transit the Class D airspace. The
primary function of a nonapproach control tower is
the sequencing of aircraft in the traffic pattern and on
the landing area. Nonapproach control towers also
separate aircraft operating under instrument flight
rules clearances from approach controls and centers.
They provide ground control services to aircraft,
vehicles, personnel, and equipment on the airport
movement area.

 

[wsuffa]

You most likely will be surprised when the chaos goes away. Traffic management in the airport traffic area is the responsibility of the tower. Conflicts from multiple approach types won’t be allowed if the traffic conflicts can’t be resolved. Our towered airport has both civilian and military aircraft shooting approached mixed with VFR training and airlines (regional carriers) arriving and departing.
You didn’t say if you use ATC doing your practice approaches, but if it’s available you may have to use their services. They will get things organized as everyone get setup for the approaches.
Bottom line is that you should see an increase in safety around the airport. Sounds like it’s needed...

It depends - I warn folks not to get complacent. With a VFR tower, there's still a fair amount of risk (and quite frankly, I've had a couple of near incidents in Class D/VFR airspace). Depending on the tower and approach situation, you may end up talking to approach where you don't do so now.

What hours will the tower be open? If it's there primarily for NG, the hours may be reduced, especially on weekends.

 

[roncachamp]

Thanks. So from a pilot's perspective there is no difference except that some requests might be slightly delayed by a phone call?

Pretty much.

Re flight strips, if I am inbound IFR to a VFR tower they will have a strip, no? How could they not have one?

They'll have the required flight data. That data may have been transmitted by flight strip printer, by a phone call, or perhaps just a full data block on a radar scope.

 

[airdale]

Thanks, gents. I suppose I read that glossary entry at some point but I didn't remember/didn't put it together with the notion of a "VFR Tower." Our local Class D airport tower has to call the (Bravo) TRACON for squawk codes, IFR releases, etc. so I guess it is a nonapproach tower.

 

[ARFlyer]

What hours will the tower be open? If it's there primarily for NG, the hours may be reduced, especially on weekends.

From what I've been told it will be a max of 40 hours a week. Also that it's not for military use. Just that the local NG wanted an airport for ATC training. We have three airports in south Arkansas that all ready have built towers but no service. So I guess they chose KHOT cause it was the highest traffic non tower, but available, one.

Frankly our airport needs a tower but that would require building one. We've talked about asking for the KPBF tower since it can be thrown on a trailer.

 

[weilke]

Thanks. So from a pilot's perspective there is no difference except that some requests might be slightly delayed by a phone call?

'Standby for release, i'm on the phone with approach' is the only difference you notice as a ifr pilot.

If you are inbound to a vfr tower they get a call with the handoff.

 

[ARFlyer]

I've also noticed especially with VFR towers is that they like to get you out of their airspace as quickly as possible.

Guess the daily newspaper crossword is burning a hole in their mind.

 

[roncachamp]

I've also noticed especially with VFR towers is that they like to get you out of their airspace as quickly as possible.

VFR towers don't actually have airspace, the "owner" is the facility that can grant IFR and SVFR aircraft access to the Class D airspace.