New and Don’t know what to do.

[Tom-D]

So that's an O-300 with a slant tail, got the squared off windows so it's likely a pre-65 model, looks to be a '62. The N number for this airplane may be expired, so you'll need to look into that for your ferry flight. Buying a new to you plane is always a gamble, hope this works well for you, the six cylinder Continental is renowned for it's smooth running motor. Good luck!

Read first post, he says it is a 1963 - C

 

[luvflyin]

You can use a ferry pilot to bring it home to you, or hire an instructor to go with you and turn it into a nice cross-country lesson.

One word of caution: Annual inspections sometimes produce surprises, especially on airplanes that have not been flying for a few years. It's good that you have somebody lined up to start the annual on June 4, as you wrote, but be prepared for surprises. I don't know how anybody could guarantee it'll be airworthy and signed off by June 6, as you seem to expect - that may happen, or it may not. Just be flexible.

Best of luck!

- Martin

@Madison890 , this. You said you don’t have a license. Have you started in on that? You may want consider getting your Student Pilot Certificate first and then a CFI to help get you back home. You’ll have logable hours then. If you can’t find a ‘volunteer’ and will have to pay a ferry pilot anyway, that might be the way to go.

EDIT: Getting the Student Pilot Certificate is probably not required. More on this starting in post #59 below.

 

[Madison890]

Where is it at: Delta Regional (DRP)? Runsick Private Field?
Where will it be going to: MEB?
I will assume there is no IFR capability: Would there be a working VOR? ILS/GS?
What about Comms: Does at least one Comm radio work?
What about lights: Does it at least have working position lights?

Airnav is showing 557nm straight line distance. So I am guessing that is around 5hrs of flight time so probably 1 stop and pre-flight make that a 7hr day so doable in a day if wx is decent.

I have never had to have a plane Ferried but now I can see all the crazy angles it can take. Maybe you have already thought of these. Or maybe others will chime in with even more things to consider. Plus it helps you start figuring out the bill. If your Ferry pilot isn't local to the area then you have 2x 1-way plane tickets which may need to be changed due to wx or aircraft issues.

As I write this its like you want your ferry pilot to be local to one end, ideally the departure end. If anything is wrong they are already at home. If it all works out you give them a ride to Charlotte and a one way plane ticket to Memphis where a friend gives them a ride back to WYNNE. Beyond that the logistics get more complicated. In this case, yes your own CFI riding with you would be a tremendous learning experience. But having someone local to the WYNNE area ferry it might be the cheapest and least complicated ferry option to get to your home base since you now own it and want it home.

Another option is you drive your CFI or mechanic to the plane and they fly it back while you drive. Or you + CFI + helper drive to your plane, the 2 of you fly it back and the helper drives your car back. But if there's a plane issue you are now all driving back home again.

I have no clue which is best. Let us know how you handle it as I am sure other will be interested.

Best of luck on the plane and getting it home!!!

So as of today I’m going to bring a person in from out of town to fly with me back. I’d rather have local CFI fly with me to AR then both come back home. I just moved to where I’m at from Charlotte and know no one. I’m staying as flexible as possible to any and all ideas. It is at a private strip where 2 other planes are kept. Both those planes owned by commercial pilot and wife. They and the owner both stated the plane has been flying a good bit the last 3 years owner just didn’t do annual. I plan on bringing it back to maxton Laurinburg airport. I flew in it for over an hour after oil change and new battery. Mechanic has already done some work on it, but needed to come back to finish. I don’t think he pulled a cylinder, but can’t be sure. I got the plane for 11,500 and am expecting to have 15 in it after annual and trip home. We will see. As I stated in the title. I’m new and haven’t a clue. Though I am learning a lot everyday. Thanks for all the advice and info and I’ll keep you guys up to date on any future endeavors.

 

[Madison890]

@Madison890 , this. You said you don’t have a license. Have you started in on that? You may want consider getting your Student Pilot Certificate first and then a CFI to help get you back home. You’ll have logable hours then. If you can’t find a ‘volunteer’ and will have to pay a ferry pilot anyway, that might be the way to go.

I don’t know how hard it is, but Monday I will make that happen. Thanks

 

[Dan Thomas]

I am going to be the spoiler here. I highly doubt that engine was properly prepared for long term storage. Airplanes that sit always have issues. If I were making the purchase here is what I would plan. Annual inspection to include rebuilding both mags and pulling at least 1 cylinder to look inside the engine for corrosion. Unless you stole the aircraft you should have pulled a cylinder in the prebuy. There is a good chance you may find internal corrosion will require a rebuild. Replace all tires and tubes. Completely drain fuel system and have the carb sent out for rebuild. Once the annual is done plan a local test flight and a day of down time to address the issues that come up. There will be issues. Don’t let time pressures force you into a departure before the aircraft is ready.

And that airframe. In that barn? Might be full of mouse nests and all their corrosive gastric products. Could be some really serious corrosion in some serious places.

 

[Dan Thomas]

How do you know the A&P-IA who did the annual didn't do all that and more?

During a two-day annual?

 

[Tom-D]

And that airframe. In that barn? Might be full of mouse nests and all their corrosive gastric products. Could be some really serious corrosion in some serious places.

A good annual would address all that.

 

[Tom-D]

During a two-day annual?

who said it was two days?

 

[Dan Thomas]

Not every engine that sets for long periods have corrosion problems. Old engines collect a oil varnish that actually protect better than any preservative that we add.

It's those ground runs after the annuals that did it. The airplane didn't fly and the moisture blown into the case during runups wasn't driven off by flying the thing to get everything up to operating temps for a while.

I have found water in rocker covers right after a runup.

 

[Dan Thomas]

who said it was two days?

Post #1:
"It is out of annual by three years. I have a mechanic getting it in annual this Tuesday, June 4. And I am looking for someone willing to fly her back, Preferably with me. I do not have my license. Plane is insured and by Thursday the sixth will be airworthy.

 

[Madison890]

And that airframe. In that barn? Might be full of mouse nests and all their corrosive gastric products. Could be some really serious corrosion in some serious places.

There was mouse **** everywhere. Glove box had a nest in it. They got 1 or 2 wires. They went to the comm box?? Mechanic found and is fixing/ did fix. I brought outside mainly to keep mice away and allow plane to bask in the light. Mainly to keep them out though. I’ve attached a pic of glove box nest and wire eaten. Mechanic said two I don’t know where the other was located, but I have gained a very early trust in this man. He’s as old as Alabama and doesn’t pull punches at all. I’ll have all his contact info and a great Refferal after this process is completed.

 

[Tom-D]

It's those ground runs after the annuals that did it. The airplane didn't fly and the moisture blown into the case during runups wasn't driven off by flying the thing to get everything up to operating temps for a while.

I have found water in rocker covers right after a runup.

you always will, I've seen rocker covers totally full of oil sludge.

 

[Tom-D]

There was mouse **** everywhere. Glove box had a nest in it. They got 1 or 2 wires. They went to the comm box?? Mechanic found and is fixing/ did fix. I brought outside mainly to keep mice away and allow plane to bask in the light. Mainly to keep them out though. I’ve attached a pic of glove box nest and wire eaten. Mechanic said two I don’t know where the other was located, but I have gained a very early trust in this man. He’s as old as Alabama and doesn’t pull punches at all. I’ll have all his contact info and a great Refferal after this process is completed.

Sweet, they chewed old intercom wires and built a nest in a plastic box.

 

[Tom-D]

Post #1:
"It is out of annual by three years. I have a mechanic getting it in annual this Tuesday, June 4. And I am looking for someone willing to fly her back, Preferably with me. I do not have my license. Plane is insured and by Thursday the sixth will be airworthy.

Great, how long has the A&P-IA been working on it to deliver in 2 days?

 

[Jeff767]

How do you know the A&P-IA who did the annual didn't do all that and more?

He stated the annual has not been done yet.

 

[Tom-D]

He stated the annual has not been done yet.

working on it ,,, working on it ,,

 

[apr911]

I think some of us have lost sight of the fact that maintenance can be done outside of an annual inspection. In other words, from the information provided so far there should be "no surprises" during the annual because the mechanic has been working on getting the plane up to snuff so that he can do the annual June 4-6 and have it pass. At least that's what it sounds like.

They and the owner both stated the plane has been flying a good bit the last 3 years owner just didn’t do annual.

Given the amount of dust on the plane and the level of mouse infestation (though I know they can move in quick), it doesn't look like the plane has actually been flying/running in at least 1-2 years. You could at least get an idea of how much the engine has been run by looking at the current tach time vs the tach time at the time of last annual.

I flew in it for over an hour after oil change and new battery.

Though a little late now and arguably you didn't know any better being new, probably not the best idea to start your flying career with an admission of flying in an unairworthy/out-of-annual plane unless you had a special permit from the FAA (which usually wont allow passengers anyway), you might want to avoid admitting that in the future.

It's those ground runs after the annuals that did it. The airplane didn't fly and the moisture blown into the case during runups wasn't driven off by flying the thing to get everything up to operating temps for a while.

^^ This. I had a truck that was prone to sitting for months at a time and/or only doing short trips. The last time I took it out was just to get the oil changed and the oil was frothy white. It comes from the oil mixing with water and you have to get the engine hot enough and run it long enough to burn off the condensation inside the crankcase.

If you dont, all you end up doing is taking that water already in the crankcase and pushing it throughout the engine which then leads to corrosion to more than just your oil pan.

 

[kath]

You may want consider getting your Student Pilot Certificate first and then a CFI to help get you back home. You’ll have logable hours then.

Huh? You don't need a Student Pilot Certificate to log hours as "flight training" with a CFI. All you need is a logbook, and a CFI to teach you stuff and sign it.

 

[Zeldman]

There was mouse **** everywhere. Glove box had a nest in it. They got 1 or 2 wires

This stuff just flat works. I use it in my house, my moms house, garages, barn and storage sheds. No mice at all. No mouse ''pills'' anywhere. And it is not poisonous. It won't kill your cats or dogs or children. It does not kill the mice. They can't stand the smell so they leave your area and get into your neighbors stuff.

https://www.dreamingearth.com/catalog/pc/Mouse-Away-Concentrate-p356.htm

 

[luvflyin]

Huh? You don't need a Student Pilot Certificate to log hours as "flight training" with a CFI. All you need is a logbook, and a CFI to teach you stuff and sign it.

Oh. Are they to meet minimum 61 or 141 requirements? @Madison890 , maybe this’ll be easier than you think.

 

[3393RP]

I think some of us have lost sight of the fact that maintenance can be done outside of an annual inspection. In other words, from the information provided so far there should be "no surprises" during the annual because the mechanic has been working on getting the plane up to snuff so that he can do the annual June 4-6 and have it pass. At least that's what it sounds like.



Given the amount of dust on the plane and the level of mouse infestation (though I know they can move in quick), it doesn't look like the plane has actually been flying/running in at least 1-2 years. You could at least get an idea of how much the engine has been run by looking at the current tach time vs the tach time at the time of last annual.



Though a little late now and arguably you didn't know any better being new, probably not the best idea to start your flying career with an admission of flying in an unairworthy/out-of-annual plane unless you had a special permit from the FAA (which usually wont allow passengers anyway), you might want to avoid admitting that in the future.



^^ This. I had a truck that was prone to sitting for months at a time and/or only doing short trips. The last time I took it out was just to get the oil changed and the oil was frothy white. It comes from the oil mixing with water and you have to get the engine hot enough and run it long enough to burn off the condensation inside the crankcase.

If you dont, all you end up doing is taking that water already in the crankcase and pushing it throughout the engine which then leads to corrosion to more than just your oil pan.

Can we call it enough of the disaster predictions? The aircraft is under the care of a mechanic. You don't have a clue if the annual has already been signed off, and since the owner doesen't have a license, someone who did flew the plane.

Cut the guy some slack, everyone just shut up for a few days, and let the man get things done. It sounds like to me he's doing fine.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Oh. Are they to meet minimum 61 or 141 requirements? @Madison890 , maybe this’ll be easier than you think.

Huh? You don't need a Student Pilot Certificate to log hours as "flight training" with a CFI. All you need is a logbook, and a CFI to teach you stuff and sign it.

I think one needs a medical only when it is time to solo, right?

 

[luvflyin]

I think one needs a medical only when it is time to solo, right?

I think that’s right. I gotta go back and edit my first post about this. I’ve already called the OP’s attention to this a couple posts above.

 

[chemgeek]

I would definitely consider getting someone fairly experienced and adventurous to ferry the plane to you once it is gone over well. You should expect surprises with an aircraft that has been idle so long--anything from light engine corrosion to failing or inoperative flight instruments to to bad alternator/generator/voltage regulator/vacuum pump to failed avionics (especially with the little mouse problem in the wiring). Most of this is likely to be fixable, but it won't be that much fun to discover these potential problems in flight during a long XC. I'd fly daylight only in really good weather over friendly terrain to ferry.

I ferried my AA-1A home to my airport from New Jersey (only about 90 minutes away) when I was a greenhorn, freshly minted pilot. Even on that short flight, there were some minor issues that went into the squawk list that I remedied over the next few months with my mechanic. (And that was a frequently flown plane.) When I bought my AA-5, I had the seller ferry to me. Much better to fix stuff local when you can control your flying risk-taking.

I believe there was a recent accident, much discussed on several boards, where a father and son ferried home a new to them C150(?) on a long XC, and experienced a total electrical failure, at night, on final approach to a rural airstrip. It did not end well, for a variety of mostly preventable reasons.

So be careful in those first few hours. And welcome to airplane ownership. The first few years can be breathtakingly expensive, but once it's yours, upkeep to your standards gets more affordable. And there is nothing like owning your own plane that you know and care for. It's always nice to know that someone else did not break the radios for flat-spot the tires for your next flight. (Unless it's you, then you are in a more forgiving mood!)

 

[TK211X]

Either I'm missing something or you guys are building suspense for no reason. This looks like a great opportunity to build some hours and have some fun once the mechanic does what he needs to and signs it off. Even though the plane has been sitting it's been registered from 2014 to 2018. I've sent @Madison890 an email and offered to help.

 

[Tom-D]

It's those ground runs after the annuals that did it. The airplane didn't fly and the moisture blown into the case during runups wasn't driven off by flying the thing to get everything up to operating temps for a while.

I have found water in rocker covers right after a runup.

What happens to the water in an engine when it sets for a long period?

 

[3393RP]

I believe there was a recent accident, much discussed on several boards, where a father and son ferried home a new to them C150(?) on a long XC, and experienced a total electrical failure, at night, on final approach to a rural airstrip. It did not end well, for a variety of mostly preventable reasons.

The alternator failed well before nightfall. The ATP kept flying, and when they approached the unlighted airport, he called his girlfriend and asked her to park at the end of the runway and shine her headlights on the runway. Not surprisingly, the plane crashed in the darkness as the pilot felt for the ground.

If the OP refrains from making similar stupid decisions, he'll be fine.

 

[chemgeek]

The alternator failed well before nightfall. The ATP kept flying, and when they approached the unlighted airport, he called his girlfriend and asked her to park at the end of the runway and shine her headlights on the runway. Not surprisingly, the plane crashed in the darkness as the pilot felt for the ground.

If the OP refrains from making similar stupid decisions, he'll be fine.

Agreed. But one should be prepared for *stuff* to happen in a newly maintained plane on a long trip. That was my point. Night XC on a ferry flight for a new-to-me plane would not be on my list of prudent practices.

 

[Tom-D]

The only real problem this aircraft might have in the future is corrosion in the oil sump.
1962 -3 172s will stand in a nose down attitude, which prevents the water in the engine to drain out of the forward sump.
Water is heavier than oil it will eventually get between the oil and the magnesium sump, which is not a good thing because the mag sump will rot until it has a hole in it.
Good sumps are hard to find, and cost upwards of $500 each, If it has the Okanogan Aero mod it will retail $1500.00

If this engine is not leaking now, I'd remove the sump and have the Okanogan Aero mod done now, then no worries for ever.

 

[Dan Thomas]

What happens to the water in an engine when it sets for a long period?

Stump the chump again? This has been discussed numerous times here and there have been links posted to vieos and articles by engine people. I bet there have been at least five threads in the last year alone that have brought it up.

 

[Tom-D]

Stump the chump again? This has been discussed numerous times here and there have been links posted to vieos and articles by engine people. I bet there have been at least five threads in the last year alone that have brought it up.

then answer the question.
I'll bet the new-bee has never thought of it.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Can we call it enough of the disaster predictions? The aircraft is under the care of a mechanic. You don't have a clue if the annual has already been signed off, and since the owner doesen't have a license, someone who did flew the plane.

Cut the guy some slack, everyone just shut up for a few days, and let the man get things done. It sounds like to me he's doing fine.

Some of us guys have been mechanics long enough to know that some other mechanics tend to overlook a lot of stuff, and the things we find in annuals on airplanes we see for the first time often turn up some horific stuff. None of us want to see this newbie to get hurt, financially or physically, by a rotten airplane. This airplane is 56 years old, plenty of time for some serious stuff to have accumulated.

Those old Cessnas had fabric headliners, a real pain to remove and reinstall, and mice found that space up there an ideal spot to build nests in the wing roots. I'd be wondering if that area was looked at recently. There are cables and pulleys up there, and dead mice and other trash can get into the cable-pulley and cause trouble, and the cables corrode.

 

[apr911]

Can we call it enough of the disaster predictions? The aircraft is under the care of a mechanic. You don't have a clue if the annual has already been signed off, and since the owner doesen't have a license, someone who did flew the plane.

Cut the guy some slack, everyone just shut up for a few days, and let the man get things done. It sounds like to me he's doing fine.

Not really sure why my post was the one that you elected to quote in your comment. I didn't make any disaster predictions and the remainder was just an observation that I find it unlikely the plane has flown much if at all in the last year or 2 given the level of dust and mouse infestation.

As to the question of annual, we actually do have a clue as the op flat out stated the plane hasn't been in annual in 3 years, is going to have an annual inspection done in the coming days and has been flown by the previous owner without annual so unless he flew in it 3 years ago (which was not the implication by "after oil and battery change") then he flew in an unairworthy airplane and should be careful who he says that to even if he wasn't the PIC and was just along for the ride. I'm not saying that to give him a hard time, I'm saying that so that he keeps himself out of trouble.

Even without the dire disaster predictions, the advice being given to "break in" the plane a bit before going on a 600 mile long cross-country is sound advice given the age of the airplane and the readily apparent lack of upkeep on the plane, even with a capable mechanic. I'd also note most of us are not giving the OP a hard time but encouragement, support and things to look out for/be prepared for.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

The only real problem this aircraft might have in the future is corrosion in the oil sump.
1962 -3 172s will stand in a nose down attitude, which prevents the water in the engine to drain out of the forward sump.
Water is heavier than oil it will eventually get between the oil and the magnesium sump, which is not a good thing because the mag sump will rot until it has a hole in it.
Good sumps are hard to find, and cost upwards of $500 each, If it has the Okanogan Aero mod it will retail $1500.00

If this engine is not leaking now, I'd remove the sump and have the Okanogan Aero mod done now, then no worries for ever.

I'm pretty sure his mechanic will do a fine job of making sure his plan will be as trouble-free as possible.

 

[3393RP]

Some of us guys have been mechanics long enough to know that other mechanics tend to overlook a lot of stuff, and the things we find in annuals on airplanes we see for the first time often turn up some horific stuff. None of us want to see this newbie to get hurt, financially or physically, by a rotten airplane. This airplane is 56 years old, plenty of time for some serious stuff to have accumulated.

Those old Cessnas had fabric headliners, a real pain to remove and reinstall, and mice found that space up there an ideal spot to build nests in the wing roots. I'd be wondering if that area was looked at recently. There are cables and pulleys up there, and dead mice and other trash can get into the cable-pulley and cause trouble, and the cables corrode.

My impression of the mechanic is that he is knowledgeable and thorough, based on the OP's description of him.

Mechanic said two [wires were involved]. I don’t know where the other was located, but I have gained a very early trust in this man. He’s as old as Alabama and doesn’t pull punches at all. I’ll have all his contact info and a great referral after this process is completed.

Since the mechanic is aware mice have been in the aircraft, he would be remiss in not removing the headliner and inspecting the area. I doubt he will ignore it, but if your post alerts the new owner of the need to do the work, that's great.

Your specific comments are much more useful than the posts that basically said "something bad will happen but I don't know what".

 

[Dan Thomas]

then answer the question.
I'll bet the new-bee has never thought of it.

https://www.aviationpros.com/home/article/10387461/corrosion-how-does-it-affect-the-internal-engine

 

[RyanB]

I think some of us have lost sight of the fact that maintenance can be done outside of an annual inspection.

That’s an obvious point, however, by the looks of this airplane, it does not appear to have been well cared for. I’d be extremely cautious taking that thing out flying after what looks like years of neglect and if the annual only lasts two days on something like that, I’d be even more cautious at how competent and thorough the A&P is.

 

[Tom-D]

before and after the Okanogan Aero mod.

 

[3393RP]

https://www.aviationpros.com/home/article/10387461/corrosion-how-does-it-affect-the-internal-engine

That's a very informative video, simple to understand and the images convey the reality of how corrosion kills an engine. Thanks for posting it.

 

[Tom-D]

https://www.aviationpros.com/home/article/10387461/corrosion-how-does-it-affect-the-internal-engine

That did not answer the question.
What happens to the water in an engine when it sets for a long period?