Need advice (topic: buying a plane)

So, guys... let's say I may be in position to acquire the plane tom-d pointed out earlier. Let's say it's in decent condition (although somewhat higher hours than quoted in the ad), but had been flown very little for the past 15 years.

If it has been well maintained there's no reason to think its age is an issue. Really airplane operation is hard on airplanes. I actually prefer an older airplane. The problem areas are well known, so you make sure to check them.

Get an insurance quote (not estimate). You're not going to like it much. The insurance companies view this as an X-C bird and want you to have an IR.
 
Yep, I should've included as long as your mission profile fits the RVs... most of which are two-seaters.

Twins (e.g Piper Aztruck) that will haul four adults plus luggage are a dime a dozen right now, but fuel burn and insurance will eat your lunch.

I wish people would quit rating basically anything unpressurized with pistons by a first year/low time insurance quote.

When ever you step up in complexity, you take a first year 100hr insurance hit. Here's a little known deal, The longer you stay in simple fixed gear planes the harder that first year insurance hit gets when you step up to a retract. The people I am seeing getting the worst quotes are the guys with 750hrs flying their 172s, PA-28 140s, DA 20 & 40s....

Once you have 1yr & 100hrs in an airframe, you will qualify for lowest rate which is going to be around 1-2% insured value.
 
So, guys... let's say I may be in position to acquire the plane tom-d pointed out earlier. Let's say it's in decent condition (although somewhat higher hours than quoted in the ad), but had been flown very little for the past 15 years.

What do y'all think? yes, I know buying a plane isn't entirely rational, or makes sense financially, and all of that. I'm doing it for the soul - there is something tremendously appealing about owning one (I have no clue why). This plane does seem to fit my mission reasonably well. I don't know of this is the right plane, but it's possible.

What do you think of this one as a starter plane of sorts? (while I am chatting to a couple other owners about similar planes, too, since this one was linked here I am using it as the example)

I'm still quite nervous about the age of the frame and the implied age of the technology involved in an aircraft this old. At the same time, it's likely that I will trade up at some point in the future (5-10 years).

What should I think about? is it easy to find a mechanic for these? how about an instructor that can teach me it for insurance? I am in the SF east bay, any pointers?

Thanks all.


Have the engine checked out well, low usage isn't too bad so long as it was steady usage but still not as good as frequent useage.

Also have the gear checked out by an A&P (not the one the current owner has been using) that really understands 210s. What you have to do is understand the operation of them, including emergency procedures. Don't be like the local 210 driver who after being asked by the FAA why he didn't pump his gear down after a partial gear up said "Because this plane doesn't have a hand pump":yikes:
 
So, guys... let's say I may be in position to acquire the plane tom-d pointed out earlier. Let's say it's in decent condition (although somewhat higher hours than quoted in the ad), but had been flown very little for the past 15 years.
That last part scares me. The more complex the airplane and its systems, the more it needs regular use to avoid deterioration.

What do you think of this one as a starter plane of sorts?
I've been doing this a long time, and from what I've seen, a complex/HP airplane isn't a "starter plane." Yes, folks may buy one as their first plane and have a decent experience, but it seems to me a lot more folks who try it end up getting soaked. My advice has always been to start with a simple, fixed-gear, all-metal 4-seat plane unless your mission really won't tolerate that or you can afford a new Cirrus (not all-metal, but a pretty good machine).

I'm still quite nervous about the age of the frame and the implied age of the technology involved in an aircraft this old. At the same time, it's likely that I will trade up at some point in the future (5-10 years).
It's not the age of the airframe, it's that "flown very little for the past 15 years." I'd rather buy a 40-y/o plane that's been flown regularly than one half its age which hasn't recently.

What should I think about?
Having a good mechanic you know and trust do a thorough inspection of the plane for signs of corrosion, leakage, and other "rot."

is it easy to find a mechanic for these?
Most mechanics are pretty familiar with the Cessna line.

how about an instructor that can teach me it for insurance?
Not that hard, as long as you're willing to pay for an instructor more experienced in complex/HP aircraft.

I am in the SF east bay, any pointers?
I instruct for Professional Instrument Courses, and we do transition training in airplanes like these all the time. PIC instructors are all highly experienced professionals, and we have quite a few well experienced in types like the C-210 who will travel to you for a 3-4 day checkout program. See http://www.iflyifr.com or call 800-I-FLY-IFR for more information on PIC's offerings.
 
So, guys... let's say I may be in position to acquire the plane tom-d pointed out earlier. Let's say it's in decent condition (although somewhat higher hours than quoted in the ad), but had been flown very little for the past 15 years.

Tom covered the "flown very little for the past 15 years" concurs that I also had when I read this.

Define: "very little". 0 hours a year? Has it flown 50 hours a year? 100 hours a year? 1000 hours a year? For how long?

You really need a good look at the logbooks on it if it hasn't flown.

You also need to find a 210 specialist for a solid pre-buy inspection.

By way of explanation, our aircraft has had three owners or owner-groups since she rolled off the line in Wichita. The initial owner of 79M in California didn't fly her enough.

After putting two new jugs on (probably corrosion killed them from not flying enough), the second owner spent a LOT of time and money whipping her back into shape, repainting her, putting the STOL kit on, etc. He owned her for a long time and flew her a ton, per the logs. He probably had other plans, but never got around to them on the interior. It's still a lovely 1975 "Goldenrod", and we just started talking about re-doing it this coming year.

You can read in our logs and see where stuff was prematurely worn out between the first and second owners, because she was a hangar-queen early in her life. Once owner #2 got after it and spent some serious coin, she was a great bird, and he flew her a lot. She's still an ultra-low-time airframe for the model year, but when we purchased her, she'd been flying regularly. Someone else took those "all this stuff has dried out, cracked, etc..." hits.

At pre-buy our mechanic's comment when my co-owners originally went to look her over was, "It's a great airplane, and at this price, the next people to walk into the hangar will buy her if you don't."

Realistically, she's not perfect, but things she needed were factored into the price tag other than an IFR GPS, which is a whole different topic. If you're getting into serious IFR... you're going to have to do that too.

What do y'all think? yes, I know buying a plane isn't entirely rational, or makes sense financially, and all of that. I'm doing it for the soul - there is something tremendously appealing about owning one (I have no clue why). This plane does seem to fit my mission reasonably well. I don't know of this is the right plane, but it's possible.

I would recommend flying at least a representative model of the type before "falling in love". There's TONS of airplanes out there for sale right now.

Personally, I know a lot of people don't mind the "shotgun" panels of the older birds, but I've spent too much time behind a "six-pack" instrument panel to enjoy it. Not a huge issue, but I wouldn't like it. I've flown behind both, "shotgun" just isn't my personal preference.

What do you think of this one as a starter plane of sorts? (while I am chatting to a couple other owners about similar planes, too, since this one was linked here I am using it as the example)

I'm still quite nervous about the age of the frame and the implied age of the technology involved in an aircraft this old. At the same time, it's likely that I will trade up at some point in the future (5-10 years).

As long as it's inspected by a mechanic who you're paying and they deem it happy, airframe isn't an issue. Find an expert in the type and start working with them.

What should I think about? is it easy to find a mechanic for these? how about an instructor that can teach me it for insurance? I am in the SF east bay, any pointers?

You're really not far from the home of the Cessna Pilot's Association -- a membership and a phone call to John there asking his opinion of both purchasing the 210A and what to look for, as well as a recommendation to a local mechanic will probably save you thousands of dollars.

There probably is no better "technical"/"mechanical" reference group for Cessna owners than them.

Their organization name is a misnomer. They're not so much a "Pilot's" Association as they are a "Mechanics" association. They won't teach you how to fly it, at all. But they do know all the stuff that breaks, how to do a proper inspection, what are the problems the various owners of the different Cessna types and models are, etc. Highly recommended.
 
Information for all who suggest this engine hasn't flown enough.

this engine had a tear down for compliance with service bulletin SN96-11B within the last 200 hours.

Its been apart and inspected.
 
That last part scares me. The more complex the airplane and its systems, the more it needs regular use to avoid deterioration.
This aircraft is low time per this boards preference but it has the engine tron down and inspected for compliance with SB 96-11B , and returned to service . the assumption that the more moving parts the higher the maintenance costs is true.
I've been doing this a long time, and from what I've seen, a complex/HP airplane isn't a "starter plane." Yes, folks may buy one as their first plane and have a decent experience, but it seems to me a lot more folks who try it end up getting soaked. My advice has always been to start with a simple, fixed-gear, all-metal 4-seat plane unless your mission really won't tolerate that or you can afford a new Cirrus (not all-metal, but a pretty good machine).
The beginner owner with the high horse complex does require more mentoring than the lessor aircraft owner, that does not mean it can't be done satisfactorily, after all many pilots do learn to fly in the aircraft that they will end up with and are very happy doing the extra training to get the proper results and avoid the money drain of moving up.

It's not the age of the airframe, it's that "flown very little for the past 15 years." I'd rather buy a 40-y/o plane that's been flown regularly than one half its age which hasn't recently.
This brings up a good point, the 210 and every other aircraft that has a hydraulic system must have that system flushed and filters changed at every 100 hours or annual which ever occurs first, or sooner or later they will be collecting the insurance check.

Having a good mechanic you know and trust do a thorough inspection of the plane for signs of corrosion, leakage, and other "rot."

simple materials condition as in any other aircraft.

Most mechanics are pretty familiar with the Cessna line.

Not that hard, as long as you're willing to pay for an instructor more experienced in complex/HP aircraft.

I instruct for Professional Instrument Courses, and we do transition training in airplanes like these all the time. PIC instructors are all highly experienced professionals, and we have quite a few well experienced in types like the C-210 who will travel to you for a 3-4 day checkout program. See http://www.iflyifr.com or call 800-I-FLY-IFR for more information on PIC's offerings.

good advice, get the IR as soon as possible it will make the aircraft much more useful.
 
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