Need Advice Crossing Rocky Mountains in Winter

rhvpilot

rhvpilot

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RHV PILOT
Just got my new baby, PA 32- 6/260 and I need to bring it home from Detroit Michigan to San Jose, California ASAP!!!.

I am a relatively new pilot @ 300 hours in C-172, currently in the middle of IFR training.

Though excited about the life time experience of real cross country, I am afraid of Rockies especially in winter weather.

Please advise on the safest and fun route. Will greatly appreciate the help.
 
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Why not head south towards ABQ then cross Arizona and see the grand canyon. It will add distance but it will be paid back in peace of mind.
 
NJP_MAN said:
Why not head south towards ABQ then cross Arizona and see the grand canyon. It will add distance but it will be paid back in peace of mind.
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Thanks for the reply. Cherokee 6/260 ceiling is 12500. Do you think this should be enough?
 
Congrats on the purchase.

Crossing is easy, head south and take the I-40 route. The I-80 route can be doable in the winter particularly when the jet stream is way south. Right now, as in today, I think you could take either route and be fine.

Ya gotta watch the winds near Laramie, WY/Muddy Mtn VOR and plan accordingly. Anyway, be ready to wait out a frontal passage, keep plenty of gas in the tanks and enjoy the trip.
 
With the weather that's going to be hitting the Bay Area tomorrow night through Friday, you'll have to either be really fast or hunker down somewhere until it's passed.
 
Clark1961 said:
Congrats on the purchase.

Crossing is easy, head south and take the I-40 route. The I-80 route can be doable in the winter particularly when the jet stream is way south. Right now, as in today, I think you could take either route and be fine.

Ya gotta watch the winds near Laramie, WY/Muddy Mtn VOR and plan accordingly. Anyway, be ready to wait out a frontal passage, keep plenty of gas in the tanks and enjoy the trip.
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Thanks
Can you please suggest a little more specific route. I don't have any experience out of California.
 
NJP_MAN said:
Why not head south towards ABQ then cross Arizona and see the grand canyon. It will add distance but it will be paid back in peace of mind.
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grand canyon and even Las Vegas would be awesome!
 
rhvpilot said:
Thanks
Can you please suggest a little more specific route. I don't have any experience out of California.
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Tony (NJP_MAN) suggested the I-40 route which from the east is go to Albuquerque and follow the interstate west. The I-80 route from the east is to go the Cheyenne and follow the interstate west. Both routes are low altitude and I-80 has airports about every 100 miles or so through Wyoming so you can get down relatively quickly if needed (and I've needed to do so).

Other than picking a route that keeps you out of the rocks, keep an eye on the weather and land to let a front move through. With the current patterns you may get stuck for a couple days, it happens sometimes. Normally a front blows through and you can leave the next day. Last December I got stuck in Wyoming for three days with freezing fog which is unusual to say the least. Anyway, don't push the weather and you'll be fine following either I-40 or I-80.
 
Yea the I-40 is pretty easy going. I fly around those parts very regularly. The last few days we have been IMC around northern AZ (until noon or so) but things will probably be good when you make your trip.
 
Go where the best weather is. Across southern Wyoming is one route. Las Vegas NEW MEXICO to Albequerque and on to LA is another lower one. You can make it at 12k or less the whole way. Most of central Colorado requires 13k. Most older guys need oxygen. Younger guys can get away without it. If in doubt, get a bottle. I have one. No IFR if its cloudy, you cant go. Check the airmets and get a weather briefing.
 
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coloradobluesky said:
Go where the best weather is. Across southern Wyoming in one route. Las Vegas NEW MEXICO to Albequerque and on to LA is another lower one. You can make it at 12k or less the whole way. Most of central Colorado requires 13k. Most older guys need oxygen. Younger guys can get away without it. If in doubt, get a bottle. I have one. No IFR if its cloudy, you cant go. Check the airmets and get a weather briefing.
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Good advise. I don't like sending folks unfamiliar with the area across central Colorado even though Corona pass then follow the Colorado river is a fairly good route. I say fairly good because it is low altitude after Corona but there a rocks close by and you're stuck at higher altitudes than either the I-40 or I-80 routes.
 
Congrats on the purchase!

rhvpilot said:
Thanks for the reply. Cherokee 6/260 ceiling is 12500. Do you think this should be enough?
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No. :) There are plenty of 14,000+ peaks in the Colorado rockies.

I just flew from Tucson to Colorado Springs and back last weekend; I chose to go around the south end of the mountains rather than over them. Granted, I'm starting from farther south than you want to go as well, but I still would recommend going around them. Weather can change very quickly in the mountains too.

How about Detroit---KBFF---KLGU---KRNO and then direct after you pass the high terrain on the south?

Or, if you want to go around the other side, Detroit---KABQ---KINW---KPRC---KLAS---KBFL then direct?

Keep in mind that there's a lot of terrain on this route west of ABQ that isn't too high for you, but is not at all flat and may not offer any good options for an emergency landing should you need one. I'm not familiar with the northern route so I don't know if that's the case along there or not.
 
I did the AQB followed I-40 to Vegas then the Bay Area via KBAK route when I brought home my 182 from Florida. That is a very safe route that wouldn't require any mountain flying training on a decent day.

We got routed right through the Grand Canyon SFRA VFR which was pretty cool and spent the night in Vegas.

Personally I would want some mountain flying training and experience before coming across further north and across 80...especially in winter.

Further south you will have less icing issues as well.

Congrats on the new toy!
 
Shawn said:
I did the AQB followed I-40 to Vegas then the Bay Area via KBAK route when I brought home my 182 from Florida. That is a very safe route that wouldn't require any mountain flying training on a decent day.

We got routed right through the Grand Canyon SFRA VFR which was pretty cool and spent the night in Vegas.

Personally I would want some mountain flying training and experience before coming across further north and across 80...especially in winter.

Further south you will have less icing issues as well.

Congrats on the new toy!
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Thanks.
Sounds like I-40 may be safer, plus grand canyon and Vegas.
 
Wait until after this crazy storm is going to pass. Sacramento will be seeing 48mph gusts. Don't think about crossing the sierras when SAC winds aloft at 9000 feet is more then 15kts...or so I've been told. I'm a new PPL with no mountain training...Taking a course early next year.
 
Grand Canyon on a 12500 foot service ceiling?

Check the SFRA altitudes first. I think you're gonna have a problem unless the DA is very low and the winds are calm. Southbound is 10,500 MSL. Right now, it's surprisingly warm. The KGCN METAR reports 11 C at 6600. So, I'll guess a DA just under 11,500 at altitude. OK (barely) in dead calm wind, but any turbulence is gonna hurt.

If you stay out of the SFRA (south), no problem.

Crossing the Grand Canyon is a challenge in a 172, and those have a service ceiling over 14000.

I don't know about PA32s, but PA28s suck over 10,000.

Most of I-80 through Wyoming is scary-dry and not very high. The problem spots are around Park City, UT and Truckee, CA.
 
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MAKG1 said:
Grand Canyon on a 12500 foot service ceiling?

Check the SFRA altitudes first. I think you're gonna have a problem unless the DA is very low and the winds are calm.
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10.5 is all you need.
 
There are numerous threads on POA about this topic. In fact, you can find most of them at the bottom of this page titled "Similar Threads".
 
rhvpilot said:
Just got my new baby, PA 32- 6/260 and I need to bring it home from Detroit Michigan to San Jose, California ASAP!!!.

I am a relatively new pilot @ 300 hours in C-172, currently in the middle of IFR training.

Though excited about the life time experience of real cross country, I am afraid of Rockies especially in winter weather.

Please advise on the safest and fun route. Will greatly appreciate the help.
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Seriously? Hire someone with experience to fly with you. If you follow I-90 IIRC it's a pretty easy flight with no major high terrain required, or dip diagonally south into the warmer latitudes until you hit the coast and turn right.

An experienced pilot with you can not only take a lot of worry and stress out of the trip, you can also learn a lot about traveling and weather from them.
 
MAKG1 said:
I don't know about PA32s, but PA28s suck over 10,000.
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Hahahahaha, I'm just getting started at 10k in my PA-28 and the -32's run away from me.
 
Henning said:
Seriously? Hire someone with experience to fly with you. If you follow I-90 IIRC it's a pretty easy flight with no major high terrain required, or dip diagonally south into the warmer latitudes until you hit the coast and turn right.

An experienced pilot with you can not only take a lot of worry and stress out of the trip, you can also learn a lot about traveling and weather from them.
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I 90..:dunno::dunno::dunno:

You are one interstate highway too far north....;)
 
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N801BH said:
I 90..:dunno::dunno::dunno:

You are one interstate highway north....;)
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things tend to get down right nasty west of Bozeman...and I lived in Butte not to mention the Wyoming like winds around Livingston

as for a pro pilot, not a bad idea but I'd be happy to shepherd him through WY - I'm not doing anything better and gas is getting cheap - I've got on board weather and have flown the route at least once ;) - he can follow on a mile trail and we'll all be happy campers
 
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MAKG1 said:
Umm, two really big problems.

(1) Service ceilings live in density altitude, not MSL. It's warm.

(2) You gotta outclimb the wind. That leaves no reserve.
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it's winter time the temps will be sub zero. DA will be below sea level.

Just remember Flagstaff is 7,011' up as is most of New Mexico. Rock Springs is near 7k too but you will be that high for much shorter distance.

WATCH THE WINDS in the winter the high country can howl . 65k is not uncommon.
 
rhvpilot said:
Thanks for the reply. Cherokee 6/260 ceiling is 12500. Do you think this should be enough?
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Yes, no worries, I have taken a Cherokee 6 across the Rockies several times at multiple latitudes. Performance when considerably below gross weight is considerably higher than book. That 12,500 ceiling may be due to no O2 system, because I have been considerably higher in one.
 
murphey said:
There are numerous threads on POA about this topic. In fact, you can find most of them at the bottom of this page titled "Similar Threads".
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Thanks for the tip. I wanted to include some fresh experience as more people have flown across and have valuable experience to share.
 
rhvpilot said:
Thanks for the tip. I wanted to include some fresh experience as more people have flown across and have valuable experience to share.
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Gonna be hard to beat Clark1961's experience.. he flies this area weekly..
 
Henning said:
Yes, no worries, I have taken a Cherokee 6 across the Rockies several times at multiple latitudes. Performance when considerably below gross weight is considerably higher than book. That 12,500 ceiling may be due to no O2 system, because I have been considerably higher in one.
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This is awesome to know. I plan on carrying a portable oxygen cylinder. Thanks
 
N801BH said:
I 90..:dunno::dunno::dunno:

You are one interstate highway too far north....;)
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Probably, I haven't run the northern highways in several years, in that area everything looks the same.:lol: Personally this time of year I would head south and burn an extra tank of fuel, even kill an extra day or two than fly the north route in a plane I didn't have enough time with to be comfortable trusting the single engine. There is a lot of sparse badland up that part of the country.
 
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