Need a little electrical advice

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JOhnH

Touchdown! Greaser!
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I have several electric outlets in the house that have a single outlet on the bottom half and a rocker switch on the to half. My wife wants me to replace a couple with dual outlets. My first step was to check the action of the switch, they don't seem to do anything. I plugged an outlet tester in and the lights came on correctly. Then I flipped the switch but the lights stayed on. As far as I can tell, the switch does nothing.
switch outlet.jpg

What should be my next step? I have no problem pulling the outlet and replacing it. I would just like to know if there are any gotchas I need to look out for.
 
JOhnH said:
I have several electric outlets in the house that have a single outlet on the bottom half and a rocker switch on the to half. My wife wants me to replace a couple with dual outlets. My first step was to check the action of the switch, they don't seem to do anything. I plugged an outlet tester in and the lights came on correctly. Then I flipped the switch but the lights stayed on. As far as I can tell, the switch does nothing.
View attachment 73231

What should be my next step? I have no problem pulling the outlet and replacing it. I would just like to know if there are any gotchas I need to look out for.
Click to expand...

A switch at floor level, that's weird. Sounds like it does nothing. When you said that you plugged an outlet tester in and the lights came on correctly did you mean that literally? Like the lights were off and plugging in the tester is what turned them on? Where are those lights? Ceiling, sconce on the wall or plugged in to an outlet somewhere else. Can you pull the receptacle out and take a pic showing all the wires attachments to the receptacle?
 
Only way to know is to open that baby up and see if the switch is even wired. It may not do anything, because whoever installed it didn't hook it up correctly.
 
JOhnH said:
... My first step was to check the action of the switch, they don't seem to do anything. I plugged an outlet tester in and the lights came on correctly. Then I flipped the switch but the lights stayed on. As far as I can tell, the switch does nothing...
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Someone in Germany just called and said, "knock it off."
 
I was speaking of the indicator lights on the tester. The two orange lights that indicate it is correctly wired came on when I plugged it in.
 
If the switch isn't wired then it is fairly easy to just install a double outlet. But test the other outlets in the room to see if the switch controls one of them.
 
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Ok, I guess it is true that the older you get, the stupider you get.

My tester (shown in the OP) has a nifty button that I can push that easily and safely trips the breaker.
Except this time. I plugged it in and pushed the buttons, but the breaker didn't trip.
 
Different kind of breaker. There are outlets (required by code in bathrooms for example) that have internal breakers. That's the type your tester is supposed to trip.
 
luvflyin said:
A switch at floor level, that's weird. Sounds like it does nothing. When you said that you plugged an outlet tester in and the lights came on correctly did you mean that literally? Like the lights were off and plugging in the tester is what turned them on? Where are those lights? Ceiling, sconce on the wall or plugged in to an outlet somewhere else. Can you pull the receptacle out and take a pic showing all the wires attachments to the receptacle?
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Just a hunch, but I don’t think this guy is the best source of advice. Just sayin. ;)
 
EdFred said:
Only way to know is to open that baby up and see if the switch is even wired. It may not do anything, because whoever installed it didn't hook it up correctly.
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This. The pic looks like its installed at floor level. If so, I'd bet its something someone put in because its what they had and the switch isn't hooked up. If so, just put in a regular outlet and call it good.

If there are wires on the switch side, you'll want to figure out where they go. If so, start by flipping the switch with your tester in the other outlets in the room. Check both the top and bottom of each outlet.
 
Switch the breaker off, take the recep out and check the wiring to switch. Its been said but thats what i’d do.
 
Tango Golf Sierra said:
Switch the breaker off, take the recep out and check the wiring to switch. Its been said but thats what i’d do.
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That's what I'll do, but I can't do it now because my wife is using the network and the breaker box is poorly labeled and I will have to cycle through all the breakers and it will undoubtedly be the last breaker I try. Then I will have to reset all the clocks (oven, mwave, coffee pot and a few others).

Oh, and apparently @Timbeck2 was right. It seems that so far, all I have used in on were outlets in the kitchen and bathroom that had GFCI and it worked fine. It doesn't work on regular old dumb outlets. I might just use the old paper clip method with one hand and stand back.
 
JOhnH said:
...Oh, and apparently @Timbeck2 was right...
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There was doubt?!! :eek2:

I may not know much about most topics on this forum but I built a 1000 sq ft addition to my house completely alone including pulling permits and scheduling inspections. I help out when I can and am capable of confusing the crap out of someone when I can't. ;)
 
Timbeck2 said:
There was doubt?!! :eek2:

I may not know much about most topics on this forum but I built a 1000 sq ft addition to my house completely alone including pulling permits and scheduling inspections. I help out when I can and am capable of confusing the crap out of someone when I'm not. ;)
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Know anything about flying? :D
 
JOhnH said:
That's what I'll do, but I can't do it now because my wife is using the network and the breaker box is poorly labeled and I will have to cycle through all the breakers and it will undoubtedly be the last breaker I try. Then I will have to reset all the clocks (oven, mwave, coffee pot and a few others).
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Labeling the breaker box is usually one of the first projects I do after moving in to a new place.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Labeling the breaker box is usually one of the first projects I do after moving in to a new place.
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I have been doing that one breaker at a time as I come across a problem. One problem I see often though is if I flip a breaker, like the one to the microwave, it will also interrupt outlets in several different rooms. I think the guy that wired by breaker box was a sadist. There seems to be no logic. The outlet where I plug in my router is on the same breaker as the bedroom ceiling fan.

I'll just have to schedule a day where I can turn on all the lights, fans and other devices and switch off one breaker at a time and walk around the house seeing what is turned off, and if it comes back on when I reset the breaker.
 
JOhnH said:
I'll just have to schedule a day where I can turn on all the lights, fans and other devices and switch off one breaker at a time and walk around the house seeing what is turned off, and if it comes back on when I reset the breaker.
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That's the way I did it.
 
JOhnH said:
That's what I'll do, but I can't do it now because my wife is using the network and the breaker box is poorly labeled and I will have to cycle through all the breakers and it will undoubtedly be the last breaker I try. Then I will have to reset all the clocks (oven, mwave, coffee pot and a few others).

Oh, and apparently @Timbeck2 was right. It seems that so far, all I have used in on were outlets in the kitchen and bathroom that had GFCI and it worked fine. It doesn't work on regular old dumb outlets. I might just use the old paper clip method with one hand and stand back.
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Be careful when you do that. While it would be very unusual, but there could be a scenario where that switch and the outlet could be on different circuits. Don't touch wire terminals when you pull it out. If you see that the switch is wired things could be not as they seem. Do you have a plain old volt meter? Something like this:

upload_2019-4-8_8-12-9.jpeg
 
You can buy a device where you plug the transmitter into an outlet and then pass the receiver over each breaker in your panel. It will light up when the correct breaker is found. It isn't all that expensive but the flip and check method works too.

$42 Sorry, I couldn't find a larger picture. ;)

619JdCraoEL._SL1000_.jpg
 
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luvflyin said:
Be careful when you do that. While it would be very unusual, but there could be a scenario where that switch and the outlet could be on different circuits. Don't touch wire terminals when you pull it out. If you see that the switch is wired things could be not as they seem. Do you have a plain old volt meter? Something like this:

View attachment 73235
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I had one, till I plugged it into a hot outlet while set to ohmmeter.
 
Timbeck2 said:
You can buy a device where you plug the transmitter into an outlet and then pass the receiver over each breaker in your panel. It will light up when the correct breaker is found. It isn't all that expensive but the flip and check method works too.

$42 Sorry, I couldn't find a larger picture. ;)
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I've got The Klein ET300 (similar to the one you pasted). It works pretty well, especially since I had a new panel installed a few months ago (replacing a 1960's unit with a hodge-podge of interesting breakers/no master). However, the electrician didn't go back and re-label any of the circuits so I've been having to fill it out as I do outlet/ceiling fixture upgrades. The Klein tool helps take some of the guesswork out of the equation. It even has a light-bulb socket adapter for ceiling fixtures.
 
JOhnH said:
I have been doing that one breaker at a time as I come across a problem. One problem I see often though is if I flip a breaker, like the one to the microwave, it will also interrupt outlets in several different rooms. I think the guy that wired by breaker box was a sadist. There seems to be no logic. The outlet where I plug in my router is on the same breaker as the bedroom ceiling fan.

I'll just have to schedule a day where I can turn on all the lights, fans and other devices and switch off one breaker at a time and walk around the house seeing what is turned off, and if it comes back on when I reset the breaker.
Click to expand...

Wow. Microwave sharing a circuit with several other outlets in other rooms? Have you ever checked to see if someone has put 20AMP breakers on a circuit wired with 14 gauge wires. I'm thinking maybe you should call an electrician and have them give your house a checkout
 
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Timbeck2 said:
Different kind of breaker. There are outlets (required by code in bathrooms for example) that have internal breakers. That's the type your tester is supposed to trip.
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Yes, when I read that, I thought Geez that could be dangerous. But GFCI, no prob.
 
JOhnH said:
That's what I'll do, but I can't do it now because my wife is using the network and the breaker box is poorly labeled and I will have to cycle through all the breakers and it will undoubtedly be the last breaker I try. Then I will have to reset all the clocks (oven, mwave, coffee pot and a few others).
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I guarantee that it will be the last breaker you try. Whether that is the first one or a middle one in the panel, it will be the last one you try. Why go beyond it? Unless, of course, you have a circuit wired like a house we used to have years ago where two breakers fed the same circuit. Thank goodness they were on the same leg in the panel.
 
JOhnH said:
I have been doing that one breaker at a time as I come across a problem. One problem I see often though is if I flip a breaker, like the one to the microwave, it will also interrupt outlets in several different rooms. I think the guy that wired by breaker box was a sadist. There seems to be no logic. The outlet where I plug in my router is on the same breaker as the bedroom ceiling fan.
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Have you found wires run under the vinyl siding yet? Or a fan in the basement that's wired using orange extension cord? :eek:

Oh...wait...that's not "sadist", that's "idiot".:rolleyes:
 
1RTK1 said:
120 ain’t so bad if you screw up but 240 is a different story.........
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I dont know how many times I have given myself the 120 tingle. Yeah im usually lazy and re rewire while its hot. Unless I have to cut wires. Blow one set of wire strippers out of your hand and you start to shut it off when cutting.
 
Looks like someone had a box of lightswitches on the truck instead of the box of duplex outlets he needed.
 
A bit concerning that making SURE you have turned off the breaker first before messing with the outlet/switch wasn't mentioned until halfway through the thread! Also, with house electrical wiring, never assume anything; it's depressing how often guidelines, regulations, and conventions are ignored for whatever reasons.
It would not be at all impossible for that switch to be wired in a completely different circuit, on a different breaker in your main (or sub) box. That switch, as others have mentioned, could control ceiling fixtures in another room, outlets anywhere including the possibility of just one half of a duplez outlet, it could be part of a two- or three-way switch system (meaning two switches exist to control the same fixture...maybe you have a wall switch that controls an overhead light, but this one does too from the other side of the room)...could control any outlet or fixture in the house. Try flipping that switch and checking every outlet, fixture, and appliance in the house to see if it reacts, and make sure any other wall switches are flipped to "on" first in case it's a two-way circuit. It'll be a fun way to spend a rainy day with a friend. Heck, it could even be an emergency shutoff for a furnace.

In any case, if you can't find anything it affects, still be VERY careful when you pull the outlet/switch ecen with the breaker off...measure for voltage across the terminals befofe grabbing anything. One hand rule until certain...trust, but verify.
 
The switch could control 1/2 or all of one or more other outlets in a room, but given that you have "several" that seems unlikely.
Do ALL of the switches do nothing when you flip them? Or did you just test one.
Could be the intent was to have the switch control that one outlet, but some doof didn't understand how to wire it. I've seen worse.
If the outlet is mounted in a metal box that is grounded, most likely you will accidentally blow the breaker when you try to remove it if you fail to pull the breaker ahead of time. If not you are likely to get poked.

As mention above, the test button is designed to test Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters - not 15 or 20 amp breakers.
If you hook yourself up to a GFCI protected circuit, power will remain on long enough for you to say "Sh", but will be off by the time you get to "it". Without a GFCI, you will have enough time to finish the word.
If you blow a circuit breaker by shorting with a screwdriver, you can take a chunk out of the screwdriver.

Circuits that seem to control totally unrelated things are run by people who are trying to save wire by running from one box to whatever box appears to be closer. Not uncommon.
Microwaves should be on their own circuit.
 
Rather than chasing around the house for other things this switch may control, I would just undo the screws, pull it from the box and check whether the switch side is even wired to anything. If it is, start tracing. If it isn't, turn off the breaker and replace it with a duplex.
 
weilke said:
Rather than chasing around the house for other things this switch may control, I would just undo the screws, pull it from the box and check whether the switch side is even wired to anything. If it is, start tracing. If it isn't, turn off the breaker and replace it with a duplex.
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Where's the fun in that? Have you no curiosity, no sense of adventure, man?
 
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