Need a little electrical advice

John, be real careful messing with this, sometimes it's better just to hire someone.
 
PaulS said:
John, be real careful messing with this, sometimes it's better just to hire someone.
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You May be right. If it were just one I would dive in. But this looks like just the tip of the iceberg to me.

I’m thinking of having a transfer switch put in for the generator anyway. Maybe I’ll have him do a thorough check at the sam e time.
 
JOhnH said:
You May be right. If it were just one I would dive in. But this looks like just the tip of the iceberg to me.

I’m thinking of having a transfer switch put in for the generator anyway. Maybe I’ll have him do a thorough check at the same time.
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Just pull off the cover plates to see if there are any wires going to the "switch" portion. It'll take less than 5 minutes. No wires on the switch terminals means they likely just threw in whatever they had handy since they didn't have any duplex outlets. If there are wires going to the switch terminals, that Klein tool mentioned earlier will allow you to at least identify what breaker the switches are wired to which narrows down what it likely controls.
 
JOhnH said:
You May be right. If it were just one I would dive in. But this looks like just the tip of the iceberg to me.

I’m thinking of having a transfer switch put in for the generator anyway. Maybe I’ll have him do a thorough check at the sam e time.
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I hope that iceberg doesn't get too expensive for you. I suspect that a hobbyist put those in and it won't be too hard to fix. Hopefully the guy didn't wire the whole house. A good electrician can fix it up quickly, ask around for someone good.
 
I agree. Pull it out of the wall and see if more than one set of wires is attached to it. Then please report back. I'm curious to know the answer to this mystery.
 
if you hear a thump when you throw that switch, I'd be looking for a secret door somewhere in the house... Hopefully not in the floor where you are standing...:D
 
My way of IDing which breaker goes to an outlet: Get a plug and wire a direct short from line to neutral. Then shove it in the outlet, quickly to minimize arcing. Go to the breaker panel and see which one has tripped. Label it for the next time. I was nervous the first time I tried this, but now it's second nature.
 
It looks like this:

https://www.leviton.com/en/docs/T5625_Instruction_Sheet-English.pdf

Basically, it's a light switch that happens to also have an outlet. If you take the cover plate off, you should be able to see the wiring attached to the sides.

If there is nothing attached to the upper left terminal, the switch isn't controlling anything and you can swap it out with a new outlet easily.
 
flyingbrit said:
My way of IDing which breaker goes to an outlet: Get a plug and wire a direct short from line to neutral. Then shove it in the outlet, quickly to minimize arcing. Go to the breaker panel and see which one has tripped. Label it for the next time. I was nervous the first time I tried this, but now it's second nature.
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Never thought of that before. Thanks for the tip.
 
A fun find while helping others. Some previous owner wanted to set up a new 3 way switch. Rather than run correct new wire, at one of the boxes, they ran a new neutral to an outlet box on the other side of the same wall cavity. So the 3 way switched light was fed from one circuit, but returning to neutral on another. Nasty surprise when you open up neutral on a circuit that is off, and get bit.
 
flyingbrit said:
My way of IDing which breaker goes to an outlet: Get a plug and wire a direct short from line to neutral. Then shove it in the outlet, quickly to minimize arcing. Go to the breaker panel and see which one has tripped. Label it for the next time. I was nervous the first time I tried this, but now it's second nature.
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What a glorious idea. That way you also know that all the wiring between the outlet and the breaker is of the appropriate size and the dwisy-chain of stab connections is intact !
 
I just shut everything off except the knowns (range/well/ac unit - basically all the 220A circuits) flip on all the lights, and then turn em back on one at a time and test with an outlet tester. Helps to have a partner to reduce in the back and forth.



Edit: I mean volts, but I'm just gonna leave it as Amps for a laugh.
 
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weilke said:
What a glorious idea. That way you also know that all the wiring between the outlet and the breaker is of the appropriate size and the dwisy-chain of stab connections is intact !
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Just in case there are a few people reading this thread who didn't catch it.... that was sarcasm. Using the "Cause an intentional short and see which breaker trips" method of circuit identification at best might, and I emphasize MIGHT, work without leaving scorch marks at your outlet. That's the best case scenario. Worst case, and probable in a lot of homes that are either older or have been inhabited by folks who like to play "I always wanted to be an electrician," is that the wiring at some point in the chain is improperly sized for the rating of the breaker and/or there are connections improperly done, corroded, or loose somewhere in the line and you'll get melted wires and/or fires before your breaker blows.
Come on, folks... this is the age where everyone has a smart phone (well, except me). Set one up by a lamp plugged into the circuit you're trying to identify, start a video chat (pick your favorite app), take a second smart phone or tablet down to your breaker box, and watch the feed while you turn breakers on and off until you see the light go out. I've used the same thing to adjust an outdoor TV antenna orientation... viewed my basement TV while I was up in the roof.Well.. except I had to use two tablets.... on accounta I don't got no smart phone.
Do NOT intentionally short outlets unless you are very, VERY confident in your wiring or you hate your house and your insurance company.
 
MuseChaser said:
. . . Come on, folks... this is the age where everyone has a smart phone (well, except me). Set one up by a lamp plugged into the circuit you're trying to identify, start a video chat (pick your favorite app), take a second smart phone or tablet down to your breaker box, and watch the feed while you turn breakers on and off until you see the light go out. I've used the same thing to adjust an outdoor TV antenna orientation... viewed my basement TV while I was up in the roof.Well.. except I had to use two tablets.... on accounta I don't got no smart phone.
Do NOT intentionally short outlets unless you are very, VERY confident in your wiring or you hate your house and your insurance company.
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Works fine until you turn off the breaker for your router/modem. ;)
 
MuseChaser said:
Come on, folks... this is the age where everyone has a smart phone (well, except me). Set one up by a lamp plugged into the circuit you're trying to identify, start a video chat (pick your favorite app), take a second smart phone or tablet down to your breaker box, and watch the feed while you turn breakers on and off until you see the light go out. I've used the same thing to adjust an outdoor TV antenna orientation... viewed my basement TV while I was up in the roof.Well.. except I had to use two tablets.... on accounta I don't got no smart phone.
Do NOT intentionally short outlets unless you are very, VERY confident in your wiring or you hate your house and your insurance company.
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SoonerAviator said:
Works fine until you turn off the breaker for your router/modem. ;)
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A loud radio works, too, as long as you are tracing just the outlets.
 
EdFred said:
What you guys aren't lighting your house up like Clark Griswold???

I do have 200A service at the house, but I'd been dealing with amps for the past 2 weeks, I just and amps on the brain. I think my biggest circuit at the house is a 220V/240V 60A in the garage.
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I also have 200A to the house, I'm looking at adding a large subpanel for the kitchen to free up a ton of breaker spaces in the main panel by moving the washer/dryer/oven/cooktop/water heater/microwave/small appliance circuits and reduce the number of individual cables running the length of the house... Because I need more projects.
 
ha!

I have a subpanel off my main panel in the house as well, and that's already split off of the main main panel which splits the 200A into 100A for the house, and 100A for the garage. I think after my second floor project gets finished, I *might* have 1 open breaker left over in the house. Plenty of circuits open in the garage, but I'm not running wires back to the house.
 
MuseChaser said:
Just in case there are a few people reading this thread who didn't catch it.... that was sarcasm. Using the "Cause an intentional short and see which breaker trips" method of circuit identification at best might, and I emphasize MIGHT, work without leaving scorch marks at your outlet. That's the best case scenario. Worst case, and probable in a lot of homes that are either older or have been inhabited by folks who like to play "I always wanted to be an electrician," is that the wiring at some point in the chain is improperly sized for the rating of the breaker and/or there are connections improperly done, corroded, or loose somewhere in the line and you'll get melted wires and/or fires before your breaker blows.
.
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Pretty sure that that's exactly how a lazy electrician makes a circuit 'cold' if he needs to work on it. Except that he doesn't make a 'short plug' but rather a regular plug that he shorts with a screwdriver.
 
weilke said:
Pretty sure that that's exactly how a lazy electrician makes a circuit 'cold' if he needs to work on it. Except that he doesn't make a 'short plug' but rather a regular plug that he shorts with a screwdriver.
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All those ways work better than my paper clip; which I only used once and never again.
 
Shawn said:
This tester may help ya...

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Pure evil.

Reported.
 
The only place I’ve seen those used are just above a counter. Never seem them by the floor.
 
JOhnH said:
All those ways work better than my paper clip; which I only used once and never again.
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A roommate in college did that - ONCE. Turned off the light over his side of the room, plugged in the paper clip and I turned on the switch. He was holding a blanket to catch the paper clip and it overshot, scorching a hole in his blanket. So much for the idea of using that for an intrusion alarm. :p
 
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weilke said:
Pretty sure that that's exactly how a lazy electrician makes a circuit 'cold' if he needs to work on it. Except that he doesn't make a 'short plug' but rather a regular plug that he shorts with a screwdriver.
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Just like there are no old bold pilots, there are no old lazy electricians.
 
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