Nebraska Registered SR-22 Down In Ohio

That's pretty sad.

And now the population of Grand Island has been cut in half.
 
Lotsa airmet zulu above 2000' out here today. I think conditions improved as the day progressed but it wasn't awesome.

Sincere condolances to the victims and families.
 
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Left GI around 12:30pm, landed in Iowa 2 hours later. The news reports says they crashed "at night", but that doesn't square with the facts. :confused:
 
Wow. An in flight breakup???


<< Sent from my mobile device at 0agl >>
 
Ouch...another one for cirrus.

Could faintly hear....Noooooooo!!!!!, from the marketing dept in MN even in California. Your results may vary.

Hate to see this with anyone in any aircraft ...seems cirrus even with the chute isn't any safer. The chute itself may tend to make pilots feel a false sense of security adding more risk into their flight plans??? Just a thought...im sure im not the first to think this.
 
TEFLONSEAN said:
The chute itself may tend to make pilots feel a false sense of security adding more risk into their flight plans??? Just a thought...im sure im not the first to think this.
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It's called "risk homeostasis" and is a real phenomenon.

And one that I think most Cirrus pilots are aware of.

Yet some admit that they fly in conditions (night, mountainous terrain, etc.) that they would not fly in but for the chute.

Which fits in almost perfectly with risk homeostasis.
 
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Geico266 said:
3 killed 30 miles east of Ft. Wayne, IN. A large debris field with eye witnesses saying they heard an explosion and the plane was on fire before impact. No chute deployment reported.
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Actually, I wonder if they were hearing and seeing the chute deployment.

:dunno:
 
timwinters said:
Actually, I wonder if they were hearing and seeing the chute deployment.

:dunno:
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Yea good point.

I'm trying to figure out what could cause an explosion mid air... engine kaboom or electrical fire got the fuel lines?.
 
SmashTime said:
Yea good point.

I'm trying to figure out what could cause an explosion mid air... engine kaboom or electrical fire got the fuel lines?.
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Cirrus fuel tank design are incendiary grenades. Failure of the wing structure rips the composite and breaches the fuel cavity, sending a perfectly atomized combination of fuel spray and hot flammable epoxy and fiberglass dust as ignition source. Boom. Wouldn't be the first cirrus to come down burning while under canopy either.

The question becomes what was the reason for the in-flight structural failure. Mid-air? overstress due to IMC disorientation? et al.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Wouldn't be the first cirrus to come down burning while under canopy either.
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Strictly true - pretty sure it would be the second.

The first was a violent midair that was probably not survivable regardless.

Not a bad record considering the number of Cirrus' out there.

That said, not yet enough evidence to say that's what happened here.
 
Ahhhhh...here come the Cirrus haters. Where's Greg? He's late to the party.
 
The cirrus is a beautiful capable aircraft. Bad stuff happens to everybody and sometimes it is tragic.
 
timwinters said:
Ahhhhh...here come the Cirrus haters. Where's Greg? He's late to the party.
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You have so much love for me, my heart is melting. Anyway I don't hate Cirrus aircraft just the inferior pilots they market to.:lol:
How many beyond Chute redline cute deployments have there been? And what was the result? Idle speculation highspeed chute deployment causing structural damage to the notorious Cirrus fuel tanks.:yikes:
 
ClimbnSink said:
How many beyond Chute redline cute deployments have there been? And what was the result? Idle speculation highspeed chute deployment causing structural damage to the notorious Cirrus fuel tanks.
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Just one. Norden, CA, in 2005. Parachute ripped off the airframe under extreme high loads. ATC radar last point showed a ground speed in excess of 270 knots and engineering calculations suggest a descending airspeed in excess of 300 knots indicated.

Survivable deployments of the Cirrus parachute system (CAPS) have occurred at 168, 171, 187 and 190 KIAS.

No Cirrus in flight has suffered a structural failure of the wing, spar or fuel tanks. The highest recorded airspeed in a Cirrus was 336 KIAS investigated by the NTSB at McCrae, GA in 2006. Wrinkled the skins. The pilot recovered and flew the plane back to the airport with three aboard.

Cheers
Rick
 
TEFLONSEAN said:
Hate to see this with anyone in any aircraft ...seems cirrus even with the chute isn't any safer.
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Actually, the frequency of Cirrus fatal accidents has dropped dramatically over the past 12 months and trended down over the past three years.

8712.cirrus-fatals-vs-caps-saves.png


For more details, see Cirrus Fatal Accident Rates on the COPA web site. 12-month rate is 0.42 fatal accidents per 100,000 flying hours, 36-month rate is less than the NTSB rate for GA in 2013 at 1.03 vs 1.05. And the NTSB rate includes twins, jets, and commercial pilots flying GA.

Cheers
Rick
 
The co-pilot/flight instructor was a close friend of mine. This one's been tough for all of us at KGRI. He was a good man. I'll be very interested to see what the NTSB says about this one.
 
Swampfox201 said:
The co-pilot/flight instructor was a close friend of mine. This one's been tough for all of us at KGRI. He was a good man. I'll be very interested to see what the NTSB says about this one.
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Sorry you have to deal with the loss of a good friend.
 
Swampfox201 said:
The co-pilot/flight instructor was a close friend of mine. This one's been tough for all of us at KGRI. He was a good man. I'll be very interested to see what the NTSB says about this one.
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I'm very sorry for your loss.

Rich
 
Swampfox201 said:
The co-pilot/flight instructor was a close friend of mine. This one's been tough for all of us at KGRI. He was a good man. I'll be very interested to see what the NTSB says about this one.
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I am very sorry.
 
TEFLONSEAN said:
Ouch...another one for cirrus.



Could faintly hear....Noooooooo!!!!!, from the marketing dept in MN even in California. Your results may vary.



Hate to see this with anyone in any aircraft ...seems cirrus even with the chute isn't any safer. The chute itself may tend to make pilots feel a false sense of security adding more risk into their flight plans??? Just a thought...im sure im not the first to think this.
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Actually, I think the chute makes those planes safer. There was a midair in MD between a Cirrus and a Robinson recently. Chute was deployed, occupants survived. Simple.
 
sdbeach said:
Just one. Norden, CA, in 2005. Parachute ripped off the airframe under extreme high loads. ATC radar last point showed a ground speed in excess of 270 knots and engineering calculations suggest a descending airspeed in excess of 300 knots indicated.

Survivable deployments of the Cirrus parachute system (CAPS) have occurred at 168, 171, 187 and 190 KIAS.

No Cirrus in flight has suffered a structural failure of the wing, spar or fuel tanks. The highest recorded airspeed in a Cirrus was 336 KIAS investigated by the NTSB at McCrae, GA in 2006. Wrinkled the skins. The pilot recovered and flew the plane back to the airport with three aboard.

Cheers
Rick
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There has been more then one who lost it's chute when deployed at a greater speed then suggested.......

One in Southern Central Wyoming a few years back.. Two deaths.... and the chute was MILES away from the wreckage... And I am not talking about the mid air close to Rock Springs either.. This one was closer to Baggs Wy..
 
Is there a weak link on the chute? In theory there should be although just the idea probably doesn't play well with the Cirrus market. Wonder what breaks first on overspeed chute deployments? With a weak link at least you'd be left with an intact airframe that perhaps could be flown to safety...
 
sdbeach said:
Actually, the frequency of Cirrus fatal accidents has dropped dramatically over the past 12 months and trended down over the past three years.

8712.cirrus-fatals-vs-caps-saves.png


For more details, see Cirrus Fatal Accident Rates on the COPA web site. 12-month rate is 0.42 fatal accidents per 100,000 flying hours, 36-month rate is less than the NTSB rate for GA in 2013 at 1.03 vs 1.05. And the NTSB rate includes twins, jets, and commercial pilots flying GA.

Cheers
Rick
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Sounds like Cirrus marketing at its finest....lets cherry pick the numbers.

This is old and still relevant.....http://www.stevewilsonblog.com/dead-pilots-dont-lie/
 
Time in type has a lot to do with accident rates. I would bet money on the buyers of new Cessnas were upgrading from old Cessnas. Something hard to do with a new airframe. Numbers don't lie but don't consider all the facts.
And who is Steve Wilson? Just another highly opinionated internet poster?
 
TEFLONSEAN said:
Sounds like Cirrus marketing at its finest....lets cherry pick the numbers.

This is old and still relevant.....http://www.stevewilsonblog.com/dead-pilots-dont-lie/
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This never goes away. Crap writing by a then Cessna salesman. I guess people feel it's on the internet so it must be true.

If you trust a glide over a descent under CAPS then I suggest you look into total kinetic energy and how it gets dissipated. A Columbia salesman once told me a falling leaf in a Columbia was safer than a CAPS descent in a Cirrus. Uh huh. That's why instructors teach a falling leaf as the best way to make an emergency landing. I think not. Wilson's Cessna numbers include the 172 which is a very safe plane but in an entirely different class. He's comparing numbers heavily biased by a trainer to a cross country aircraft. Your first 50 hours are the safest you ever fly (tight training supervision). That means trainers have great safety records. If you compare an SR22 to a Bonanza or a Mooney things look different.
 
N801BH said:
There has been more then one who lost it's chute when deployed at a greater speed then suggested.......

One in Southern Central Wyoming a few years back.. Two deaths.... and the chute was MILES away from the wreckage... And I am not talking about the mid air close to Rock Springs either.. This one was closer to Baggs Wy..
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Negative. No other NTSB investigation lists Wyoming than Rock Springs.

An SR20 crashed at Maybell, Colorado, the chute deployed from impact forces, and it dragged the wreckage 1.5 miles into Wyoming, close to Baggs, WY. This image shows the CAPS activation cable:
maybell-caps-handle.jpg


Cheers
Rick
 
TEFLONSEAN said:
Sounds like Cirrus marketing at its finest....lets cherry pick the numbers.
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I like cherries, but explain how numbers have been picked?

For a description of the numbers, see this COPA web page, Cirrus Accident Rates.

TEFLONSEAN said:
This is old and still relevant.....http://www.stevewilsonblog.com/dead-pilots-dont-lie/
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Relevant how? And when? This blog is ancient -- from 2009. Here's the fatal accident rates before, during and after that time period:
1205.Cirrus-accident-rates-vs-NTSB.png


Cheers
Rick
 
This is crazy! GA planes dropping like flys everywhere. WTH!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
ClimbnSink said:
Is there a weak link on the chute? In theory there should be although just the idea probably doesn't play well with the Cirrus market. Wonder what breaks first on overspeed chute deployments? With a weak link at least you'd be left with an intact airframe that perhaps could be flown to safety...
Click to expand...

The Cirrus engineering folks are really, really interested in this issue.

What breaks at high speed? So far, not much, even at airspeeds way above the demonstrated deployment speed of 133 KIAS.

In the Norden, CA, investigation, the parachute separated between the kevlar risers and the white suspension lines. Also, some gore panels separated. Airspeed was estimated at over 300 KIAS.

From anecdotal information from investigators, only a couple of other high-speed deployments have damaged the parachute and only in the earliest deployments. In the Haverstraw, NY, investigation, apparently, a couple of seams were ripped, but then again, that parachute was dragged in the water during recovery. And in the Horton, UK, investigation, where the chute was deployed at 187 KIAS, apparently a gore panel ripped.

Otherwise, the Cirrus parachute system has worked at 168, 171, 187, 190 KIAS and separated at over 300 KIAS.

Cheers
Rick
 
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