NA -Supreme hatred for Java

[sferguson524]

I am not referring to the nectar of the Gods that is brewed every morning, but the fetid piece of crap that is put out by Oracle. Trying to do OOB management to different vendors' servers, needs different versions of Java.. Dell won't work with an older iDRAC with the newest Java.. SuperMicro (don't get me started on them) won't work with an older version of Java. I am half tempted to take a bat to these damn things..

 

[RJM62]

Kind of ironic for a platform intended to provide cross-platform compatibility, huh?

I think Nate is the resident Java expert. Maybe he can help sort things out.

Rich

 

[sferguson524]

Right?!?! Gotta love using old programs to support infrastructure. The worse thing is this is for a demo of nutanix for Veeam backups of Nutanix workloads.

 

[DaleB]

Can't count the number of times I have been forced to conclude that a particular Java or (even worse) Perl program must be able to run only on the PC of the developer who wrote it, and nowhere else.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Setting aside 24" of page space for Nate's answer here

 

[murphey]

Don't blame Oracle...they bought out SUN, which created Java. One problem - Java is not an ANSI or ISO programming language, it's owned by a company that can do anything it wants, and there's no agreed upon base language definition.

 

[JonH]

This is why I will always have Win XP and IE 6 running on a VM on my laptop and office PC.

 

[sferguson524]

This is why I will always have Win XP and IE 6 running on a VM on my laptop and office PC.

Sad but true... Ended up downloading java 6 on my win10 machine and using firefox. Was a morning wasted.

 

[sferguson524]

And don't get me started on Nutanix' interface...

 

[denverpilot]

I think Nate is the resident Java expert. Maybe he can help sort things out.

Resident expert at cussing at it for ever being created, you mean.

The desktop Java crap is also an order of magnitude more complex due to exactly what the OP hates, different versions of Java needed for unmaintained crap that chose Java version X ten years ago and won’t even launch under newer versions.

The FCC website for registering aviation ground stations is this way. It’ll even tell you you’re not using a version of Java so buggy and old you can’t find it anymore.

As someone else mentioned when you get into this layer of desktop Java hell you either keep an entire desktop machine on the old version just for running that “thing” that needs it, or you create a VM for it.

Utter trash language. Burns resources on the hardware like crazy. I can’t think of a single time in 20 years of running production Unix systems that a constant resource problem in normal run state wasn’t Java eating the machine alive.

Funny thing is, Oracle finally put hard limits in it. I finally had an Avaya telecom system that was mysteriously crashing at night pop up a couple of months ago as a call to a vendor who said, “Oh... that means our embedded Java ran out of RAM. Go into file A and edit the RAM limit Java is allowed to consume if your machine has more available. We recommend doubling it to start and doubling that if the crashes continue.”

 

[murphey]

Funny you bring this up. Just gave an assignment in class that would crash due to memory problems. Some students did the research and solved the problem, most just turned in a non-working assignment.

$ java Xms16m -Xmx64m prog

 

[denverpilot]

Funny you bring this up. Just gave an assignment in class that would crash due to memory problems. Some students did the research and solved the problem, most just turned in a non-working assignment.

$ java Xms16m -Xmx64m prog

I’d rewrite the damn thing in bash. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a language and engine suck so hard as Java.

You’re missing a minus sign there professor.

Happiness and Cyanide covered this...

 

[murphey]

I’d rewrite the damn thing in bash. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a language and engine suck so hard as Java.

You’re missing a minus sign there professor.

Happiness and Cyanide covered this...

As an adjunct, I don't got no choice in the language. The "Advisory Committee" wants Java. Back in the Dark Ages, CS was taught in FORTRAN, than it moved to C, then Pascal to Modula, then C++, now Java or C#. Next semester, I get my way and my classes use Python.

Frankly, I don't care about the language. Understand the fundamentals, and the reference manual is your best friend. There are some classes where the language is critical and often specifi ... operating systems - is always C. Database is always SQL for relational (unless it's grad school where you have to write one from scratch, so it's C again) or one of the NoSQLs. Computer graphics...back to C. Anything that's high performance or number crunching, it's C/C++. Personally, I'd teach everything in ARM or Motorola 68000 assembly. Just to be annoying.

But Android is a Java platform, and we see more requests for mobile development, so there's lots of Java.

What's interesting is that younger faculty ( newish PhDs ) are limited in languages. They know the theory and generalities of a few languages, but none of the nuances such as issues with versions. At my school, most of the older faculty have extensive industry experience and have gone thru the agony of versions, legacy systems, and are fairly fluent or can at least get by, in a dozen or so languages.

I keep telling my students, you really learn a language when your paycheck depends on it.

 

[denverpilot]

As an adjunct, I don't got no choice in the language. The "Advisory Committee" wants Java.

I know. I hear ya...

 

[mcdewey]

Java's been paying for my flying life style (and less important things like food, clothing, housing, etc.) since 1998. Desktop Java is no longer viable. Server-side is good stuff. Depends on design by experienced people. Design is hard. Also, with the improvements in garbage collectors, Java runs fast and uses resources comparable to compiled languages.

 

[flhrci]

I had to learn a little Java for my intro to programming class this semester and I just don't get it. I was good until we go to inheritance. It did not help that I had just read an article on the net slamming Java. Thankfully I am not going into programming, but cybersecurity. I will probably learn a language some time but not Java.

David

 

[Heftiger]

Java is a nightmare for anybody responsible for cyber security. A myriad of different version, all required by different applications, all with different severe vulnerabilities.

 

[injb]

...

Funny thing is, Oracle finally put hard limits in it. I finally had an Avaya telecom system that was mysteriously crashing at night pop up a couple of months ago as a call to a vendor who said, “Oh... that means our embedded Java ran out of RAM. Go into file A and edit the RAM limit Java is allowed to consume if your machine has more available. We recommend doubling it to start and doubling that if the crashes continue.”

Funny you bring this up. Just gave an assignment in class that would crash due to memory problems. Some students did the research and solved the problem, most just turned in a non-working assignment.

$ java Xms16m -Xmx64m prog

The hard limits were there long before Oracle took over. They have lagged behind hardware for a long time though. I've solved a lot of running issues with 3rd party software by just increasing xmx to something sensible like 1GB. It's a bad feature imo; the hard limit should be opt-in instead of being there by default. But ultimately since it is there by default, it falls to the developers to think about what their design actually needs, and ship a configuration that works. Java tries to shield the developer from having to think about actual system RAM, and I think this limit gets overlooked as a consequence.