(NA) Not a LEO, but. . .

EdFred said:
Since I have a carry permit and Michigan law requires that I disclose immediately if I am carrying, as soon as the officer approaches the window I yell, "I have a gun!!!"
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Isn't that supposed to be preceded by, "Stay back!"?
 
Since I have a carry permit


Kentuckian....No permit required.....I asked a Trooper buddy of mine how many people are armed? He laughed and said, "Everyone of them as far as Im concerned"
 
Murph said:
Since I have a carry permit


Kentuckian....No permit required.....I asked a Trooper buddy of mine how many people are armed? He laughed and said, "Everyone of them as far as Im concerned"
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IIRC the first rule of gun fighting is to have one ...
 
Sundancer said:
Not a LEO, not a lawyer: But cookout recently, with some high school athletes, parents, etc., I heard some horrendously bad advice regarding traffic stops - made me wonder if kids are getting any instruction on this in drivers ed, etc.?

Got my grandson aside and told him:
1. Yeah, you DO have to get out of the car if the LEO says to. And you DO have to stay in the car if he says so. Failing to do so can get you charged.
2. You DO have to identify yourself if you're a passenger and the LEO asks you to
3. Passengers aren't free to go until the LEO says so
3. The LEO CAN detain you and your pax, even handcuff you, if he/she thinks it's necessary, without arresting you.
4. The LEO doesn't have to read you your rights at arrest if he/she isn't questioning you.
5. Passive resisting is still resisting.
6. The LEO can order people away from the immediate area of the stop
7. Put it in park, turn off the engine, turn on the interior lights, roll down the windows, put your hands on the steering wheel. Don't be rooting around for docs as the LEO approaches your car.
8. A LEO has a lot of discretion on traffic stops; act like an adult and maybe get a warning, or fewer citations. You're not gonna get a pass on a DUI.
9. The LEO doesn't know you - you could be Mother Theresa. Or a serial killer...you may KNOW you didn't do anything wrong - what you don't know is your car and occupants matches the sketchy description of a liquor store robber who just shot and killed the store clerk.
10. You aren't being treated like a criminal - you're being treated like an unknown quantity. Ten minutes in cuffs won't kill you - plenty of LEOs have been killed by people NOT in cuffs.
11. If you have a gun in the car don't say "I have a gun!" - try "There is a weapon in the center console."
12. Don't flee or elude. You can escalate a traffic or drug misdemeanor into multiple felonies.
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Some other things to tell your grandson:
1. The LEO will violate your constitutional rights in their interpritation of conducting their job because they are dangerously inadequatly trained of the law.
2. A LEO will use excessive force to calm a situation.
3. LEOs are the basis of every riot involving police excessive force.
4. LEOs are not in a normal state of mind due to the widespread illegal steriods they consume.
5. 20 years in prison for being convicted for violating a citizen's right won't kill them.
 
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A great way to get on a LEO's good side is to scream "I know my rights!" at the top of your lungs and then scream "I'm not resisting!" while flopping around like a fish.
 
If you carry, know the state laws where you are. Many states require that you disclose that you have a firearm; some do not. In any event, open your drivers side window with dome light on and keep your hands on the steering wheel so that the officer can see them. I retrieve my license and registration before the officer walks to the car and, if I am required to disclose the firearm, I will have my carry license.
 
6t6 said:
Some other things to tell your grandson…
1. The LEO will violate your constitutional rights in their interpritation of conducting their job because they are dangerously inadequatly trained of the law.
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Maybe some. Not all. My police academy was 9 months long and had extensive content involving constitutional rights, along with state and county laws.

4. LEOs are not in a normal state of mind due to the widespread illegal steriods they consume.
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That’s a ridiculous hasty generalization. As are most of the rest of your points. I’d guess your judgment on this topic is clouded by…something?
 
6t6 said:
Some other things to tell your grandson:
1. The LEO will violate your constitutional rights in their interpritation of conducting their job because they are dangerously inadequatly trained of the law.
2. A LEO will use excessive force to calm a situation.
3. LEOs are the basis of every riot involving police excessive force.
4. LEOs are not in a normal state of mind due to the widespread illegal steriods they consume.
5. 20 years in prison for being convicted for violating a citizen's right won't kill them.
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Bad experience? Drawing a global conclusion from a specific encounter? Not phrased such that your post can be taken seriously. . .
 
Half Fast said:
I think the second rule is to bring along all your friends who have guns.
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Wait a minute. Rule 2 used to be make sure your gun is belt fed. When did this change?
 
USMC Rules For Gun Fighting
  1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns. Bring their friends who have guns.
  2. If you can, make friends with those on the crew served weapons. Bring them as well. Borrow money from them, it gives them an added incentive to protect you.
  3. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.
  4. Only hits count. Close doesn’t count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.
  5. If your shooting stance is good, you’re probably not moving fast enough nor using cover correctly.
  6. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)
  7. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.
  8. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived and who didn’t.
  9. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating (calling for arty or air support), reloading, and running.
  10. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting is more dependent on “pucker factor” than the inherent accuracy of the gun.
  11. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. “All skill is in vain when an Angel ****es in the flintlock of your musket.”
  12. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.
  13. In combat, there are no rules, always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
  14. Have a plan.
  15. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won’t work.
  16. Have a back-up, back-up plan in case CentCom or SecDef finds the first two plans “unacceptable”.
  17. Use cover or concealment as much as possible. The only visible target should be in your gun sights.
  18. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect your flank.
  19. Don’t drop your guard.
  20. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.
  21. Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them).
  22. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.
  23. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.
  24. Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
  25. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.
  26. Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.
  27. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with a “4.”
 
Sundancer said:
Bad experience? Drawing a global conclusion from a specific encounter? Not phrased such that your post can be taken seriously. . .
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Nope. I can read and Tik Tok. My guess is the citizens who were assalted by LEO's take it seriously.
 
6t6 said:
Nope. I can read and Tik Tok. My guess is the citizens who were assalted by LEO's take it seriously.
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From past experience, my guess is most of those tiktoks tell a very different story than the truth. I would highly suggest not taking anything on that platform seriously without extensive and unbiased research.
 
SkyChaser said:
My guess is most of those tiktoks tell a very different story than the truth. I would highly suggest not taking anything on that platform seriously without extensive and unbiased research.
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It's not a story it's video documenting. The viewer decides what to believe. Yep they're all liars and LEOs tell the truth.
 
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6t6 said:
It's not a story it's video documenting. They viewer dicides what to believe. Yep they all liars and LEOs tell the truth.
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I never said that every videographer was a liar or that all police officers tell the truth all the time. I said to investigate the incidents and not just take the tiktoker's word for it. There are many times where even "video evidence" is not showing the full story. There is plenty of video footage that looks terrible, but is only terrible out of context.

If you rely on the tiktoker crying and screaming that the officers are attacking her as they try to pull her out of her car, you miss the part where she broke the law, threatened the cops, and refused to cooperate despite many pleas from the police officer ten minutes ago. Those are two very different stories, but you might never know that the other story existed if you decide the police officers are always the aggressors.
 
Half Fast said:
USMC Rules For Gun Fighting
  1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns. Bring their friends who have guns.
  2. If you can, make friends with those on the crew served weapons. Bring them as well. Borrow money from them, it gives them an added incentive to protect you.
  3. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.
  4. Only hits count. Close doesn’t count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.
  5. If your shooting stance is good, you’re probably not moving fast enough nor using cover correctly.
  6. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)
  7. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.
  8. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived and who didn’t.
  9. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating (calling for arty or air support), reloading, and running.
  10. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting is more dependent on “pucker factor” than the inherent accuracy of the gun.
  11. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. “All skill is in vain when an Angel ****es in the flintlock of your musket.”
  12. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.
  13. In combat, there are no rules, always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
  14. Have a plan.
  15. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won’t work.
  16. Have a back-up, back-up plan in case CentCom or SecDef finds the first two plans “unacceptable”.
  17. Use cover or concealment as much as possible. The only visible target should be in your gun sights.
  18. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect your flank.
  19. Don’t drop your guard.
  20. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.
  21. Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them).
  22. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.
  23. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.
  24. Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
  25. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.
  26. Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.
  27. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with a “4.”
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28. Always remember that you cannot miss fast enough to win.
 
6t6 said:
It's not a story it's video documenting. They viewer dicides what to believe. Yep they all liars and LEOs tell the truth.
Click to expand...

Usually the social media video starts 5-10 minutes after the initial encounter so as to not show how belligerent the videographer was at first. Then it's "police brutality" after they've been aggressive and combative with the LEO to the point where it became an arrest or resisting arrest. I don't mean that to say that there aren't some terrible LEOs out there, just that when most of that stuff goes to trial and the officer's body cam footage gets shown, the charges against the LEO are often dropped.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Usually the social media video starts 5-10 minutes after the initial encounter so as to not show how belligerent the videographer was at first. Then it's "police brutality" after they've been aggressive and combative with the LEO to the point where it became an arrest or resisting arrest. I don't mean that to say that there aren't some terrible LEOs out there, just that when most of that stuff goes to trial and the officer's body cam footage gets shown, the charges against the LEO are often dropped.
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Certainly, videos manipulated on social media only exacerbate the problem.
 
6t6 said:
It's not a story it's video documenting. They viewer dicides what to believe. Yep they all liars and LEOs tell the truth.
Click to expand...

I have watched some of these videos, at least in the context of taking video of public areas and government buildings while the videographer is in a in public space. They generally are start to finish of the encounter. It is remarkable how many LEO don't know basic constitutional rights. And yes, hearing" I know my rights" and a detailed enumeration as to why the citizen need not submit to their authority does more to **** them off then anything else.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Usually the social media video starts 5-10 minutes after the initial encounter so as to not show how belligerent the videographer was at first. Then it's "police brutality" after they've been aggressive and combative with the LEO to the point where it became an arrest or resisting arrest. I don't mean that to say that there aren't some terrible LEOs out there, just that when most of that stuff goes to trial and the officer's body cam footage gets shown, the charges against the LEO are often dropped.
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Except for when the officer turns off or mutes the body cam.

 
EdFred said:
Except for when the officer turns off or mutes the body cam.

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Yup. Like I said, I'm not excusing the poor behavior of those bad LEOs (who are honestly the exception not the rule). I have a feeling that ending (or severely restricting) the idea of qualified immunity would help bring the behavior of cops back in line. If they can be held financially/criminally liable themselves for many of these altercations, their behavior wouldn't be so aggressive. Easy to cast stones at them when we generally aren't dealing with the dregs of society most every day.
 
6t6 said:
Nope. I can read and Tik Tok. My guess is the citizens who were assalted by LEO's take it seriously.
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I can read too. A video on tiktok is superbly bad evidence. To say that every single cop is crooked is as statistically impossible as every cop being honest, and citing individual instances does very little to prove either a culture of honesty or dishonesty.
 
6t6 said:
It's not a story it's video documenting. The viewer decides what to believe. Yep they're all liars and LEOs tell the truth.
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In my experience the context in videos is often missing, or "edited" out. Too many "Unarmed citizen shot by police. . ." stories turn out to be false. Same with excessive force - it happens, sure, but the more common event is the force used was the minimum necessary, and provoked by the suspect.

Paiting the entire profession as as drug abusing anti-constitutional thugs strikes me as lacking intellectual rigor; you are correct, all who complain are not liars, and sure, a LEO can certainly lie. My opinion is LEOs probably have about the same ratio of bad apples as you'd find in law offices, class rooms, bible schools, mainstream media, or any other profession with more than 10 practitioners.

Abuses and poor procedures exist, definitely; but the social media outrage is out of proportion to the frequency of legitimate bad acts. Again, I'm not a lawyer or a LEO, but the public seems to have a distorted understanding of their constitutional rights - and a lack critical analysis. The interactions between police and public could use some education on the public's part.
 
Craig said:
Really want to wind the cops up, haul dummy ordinance. Friend was stopped for fuel while hauling a Mk 17 full weight hydrogen bomb case. Kid asked if he was hauling a bomb on the trailer. Told him yep, a nuke.... 15 minutes later the gas station was surrounded by every badged officer in the county. Took a bit to subdue the freakout level, and him to get back on the road.
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The Mk 17 was one of the first deployable hydrogen bombs, and ithe the B-36 was needed to make that happen. It was huge, and could yeild up to 15 megatons.

The MK-17 was carried by B-36s and was in service from 1954 until 1957. By today's standards, it was extremely large and heavy. It had a casing 3 1/2 inches thick, a length of 24 feet 10 inches, diameter of 5 feet 2 inches and a loaded weight of 41,400 pounds.
 
6t6 said:
It's not a story it's video documenting. The viewer decides what to believe. Yep they're all liars and LEOs tell the truth.
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"Video documenting"?

So that video of the guy living on Mars after the rest of his crew left was real?

:D
 
donjohnston said:
"Video documenting"?

So that video of the guy living on Mars after the rest of his crew left was real?

:D
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It's lucky for us that most "video documenters" don't have Twentieth Century Fox's resources! :D
 
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