[NA] Interview aftermath

JOhnH said:
Yeah, I believed that for the first few years too. (And I think I admitted in my statement that my excuses were invalid).

But I also found that this is ultimately true too.


No good deed goes unpunished. When you send a rejection letter, you can often look forward to the awkward question of "WHY"? Any answer to that is either heart wrenching or legally dangerous.

Now let me make another excuse. I didn't have a trained HR department. I was busy trying to run a small business. I fought the fires that were about to burn me down. Not the ones that were smoldering under a rug.

Lastly, I don't mean to justify this. I am trying to help explain why it happens.
Click to expand...
I’m still trying to understand why anyone cares.
 
As my kids are in the job market now, I get to see the frustration of submitting a resume electronically (which as we all know never fails :cool: ) and hearing nothing. A simple system (and it could definitely be fully automated) acknowledgment that it was successfully submitted would go a long way. And having folks respond with "I'll send this to so-and-so and they'll call you." followed by crickets is also very, very frustrating.

Being on the hiring side, I'm busy and I get how things hang fire for a month or more but if you're out of work that's a long time to twiddle your thumbs with no news.

And for a small business owner, yeah. I get that for sure. Been there. Best quote on small business I aver read was in the Reader's Digest: "To make your small business go you simply have to work half days. Whichever 12 hours you choose."
 
Van Johnston said:
Widely recognized job seeker’s etiquette would be a more appropriate phrase.
Click to expand...

I think that this is probably a pretty fair characterization. At least in my industry. I can't speak to other industries. So, I am not rejecting the experience of anyone in other fields.

Our hiring practices are also in the context of a small business (although it's not tiny, either). We are not a huge corporation with lots of departments accepting resumes online to an anonymous drop box. We are typically hiring students in law school who are applying during the school year in response to posts with their law school placement services offices with instructions to send them to a specific contact person. We do also sometimes hire laterals from other firms. It's much more of a personal interaction. So, we definitely are acknowledging receipt of resumes, keeping people posted on the status of the hiring process, and letting them know when we have made a decision, whether good or bad. And we are likely going to see these same applicants in practice and have interaction in the future even if they ultimately are hired by some other firm. In this context, a thank you to the folks that interviewed the applicant is appropriate, in this interviewer's opinion, and is consistent with the opinions of everyone else I have spoken with in this field. Certainly one's experience in another field may be entirely different.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for all the feedback. Guess I'll just keep trying.
 
saracelica said:
Thanks for all the feedback. Guess I'll just keep trying.
Click to expand...
Good luck. I had a nearly 5 year hiatus between jobs during the tech wreck. I would get unhappy that my resume apps were never acknowledged, but eventually I learned that it was a useless waste of psychic energy. Same with no follow up rejection notice.

I have heard that if you don't want the job, you shouldn't send a thank you letter. Handwritten is best, as it sets you apart from those who email theirs, but email is fine.

If you are getting onsite interviews, your resume is good enough. When they bring you in to the office, they want to know if they can stand you, if you can stand them, and are you willing to do the job?

It helps to tailor your resume, to a point, at least. A suggest cover letter format is to list the job requirements in column one, and how you meet those requirements in column two.

Also, you shouldn't talk about why you want the job, but how you can make a positive impact on their bottom line.

During the interview, if possible, answer their questions with PSRs to show how good you are. PSR stands for problem, solution, result. You'll need to practice them, and have several in reserve. Look up behavioral interviewing for more information and detail.

Also, have some questions for them prepared. That's a great way to show you're interested in the job. I think you can find some examples if you search for questions to ask during an interview.

I don't know how you are dressing for your interviews, but short of a tux, it's hard to be overdressed. The more successful you look, the better the first impression you'll make, and you only get one chance to make a first impression.

After a year, you should start doing some volunteer work so you'll be able to tell them what you've been doing besides look for work.
It will also give you a chance to do some networking, which is how I landed a job at Cessna, after I'd been out of work for almost 5 years.

Finally, try to have fun on interviews, and if it seems appropriate, it's OK to try to inject a little humor.

In fact, as a former cow-orker said a long time ago, "If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right."

Good luck, and I hope this stream of consciousness post helps.
 
Fallsrider said:
Thanks to the extremely litigious society we have become. People will sue you now for even the slightest perceived offense.
Click to expand...
With "losing party pays" across the board, it would likely slow down a bit. We need more pilots, but not more lawyers.
 
Crashnburn said:
Finally, try to have fun on interviews, and if it seems appropriate, it's OK to try to inject a little humor.

In fact, as a former cow-orker said a long time ago, "If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right."
Click to expand...
Your post had a lot of good information in it. And I do have to say, you did use some humor. I would not know how to "ork" a cow if I had to.
(Ok, I of course knew what you meant).
 
JOhnH said:
Your post had a lot of good information in it. And I do have to say, you did use some humor. I would not know how to "ork" a cow if I had to.
(Ok, I of course knew what you meant).
Click to expand...

"cow-orking" is a Dilbertism*, and I'm sure c'n'b typed it that way on purpose.

* - Scott Adams referred to co-workers as cow-orkers in the comic strip Dilbert.
 
Crashnburn said:
I don't know how you are dressing for your interviews, but short of a tux, it's hard to be overdressed. The more successful you look, the better the first impression you'll make, and you only get one chance to make a first impression.
Click to expand...

This was true, but no longer. There are places that won't hire you if you show up in a suit because you "wouldn't fit in the company culture." This is sound advice when you're interviewing at IBM, but not so much at Google.

The wisdom these days is to ask ahead of time what you should wear to the interview, and make it the best version of what they tell you.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
This was true, but no longer. There are places that won't hire you if you show up in a suit because you "wouldn't fit in the company culture." This is sound advice when you're interviewing at IBM, but not so much at Google.

The wisdom these days is to ask ahead of time what you should wear to the interview, and make it the best version of what they tell you.
Click to expand...

That's why you wear a quick remove suit. Walk in, see you are way over dressed, a quick snap and you're in bizcasual, or casual.
 
Let me see if I understand the situation: Companies and hiring managers have no problem ignorning a status request from the candidate, but if they tell the candidate that he or she wasn’t selected, feel obligated to respond to a “why not” question? That makes absolutely no sense.

The bottom line is that failure to provide status as a follow-up to a candidate interview is not only rude, but *entirely unprofessional*. Failure to follow-up violates basic standards of integrity and professionalism, and it makes you and your company look bad. Would you tolerate it if that employee were hired and failed to provide you with a status on one of his or her assignments? There is no acceptable excuse for failing to do the right thing, and that applies to providing candidates whom you interview with a response.

With that said, there is no need to go beyond, “We chose someone else.” Some companies use this basic message in form letters or emails from HR, and I think that’s fine. Yes, the candidate may ask follow-up questions, but at that point you don’t owe a response. When a candidate spends his or her time to interview with you, you *absolutely* owe that candidate a status update or confirmation that they did or did not get the job, and silence does not count.

The liabilty excuse is laughable. There is pretty much zero risk in simply informing someone that he or she wasn’t chosen. Statements made during the actual interview, however, may be a company lawyer’s nightmare. It’s almost impossible for many companies to avoid making statements during the interview process which could later be construed as verbal commitments, and which may create huge liability exposure when the company later fails to deliver on them.

I suspect that the reasons candidates are blown off are at least twofold: One, candidates who don’t get hired are viewed as worthless to the company, and therefore unworthy of the time, effort, or any possible risk required to respond. Two, people don’t like delivering bad news, and telling someone they weren’t selected is undeniably bad news. An excuse like, “The lawyers made me do it,” is convenient enough to hide behind, and perhaps clears the conscience of some—but it shouldn’t. The reality is that many people have long memories, and as a hiring manager you never know when you might one day be interviewing with someone whom you once interviewed—or when they might be your customer. These are situations which work to define personal integrity and reflect ethical standards of the business.
 
Last edited:
PPC1052 said:
False. I have plenty of manners. I think based on our past exchanges, you don't really mean that, anyway. I will accept that my manners are not perfect.
Click to expand...
But you don't seem to be likable...but then you are now going to tell me, "False, I am very likable".
 
PPC1052 said:
I think that this is probably a pretty fair characterization. At least in my industry. I can't speak to other industries. So, I am not rejecting the experience of anyone in other fields.

Our hiring practices are also in the context of a small business (although it's not tiny, either). We are not a huge corporation with lots of departments accepting resumes online to an anonymous drop box. We are typically hiring students in law school who are applying during the school year in response to posts with their law school placement services offices with instructions to send them to a specific contact person. We do also sometimes hire laterals from other firms. It's much more of a personal interaction. So, we definitely are acknowledging receipt of resumes, keeping people posted on the status of the hiring process, and letting them know when we have made a decision, whether good or bad. And we are likely going to see these same applicants in practice and have interaction in the future even if they ultimately are hired by some other firm. In this context, a thank you to the folks that interviewed the applicant is appropriate, in this interviewer's opinion, and is consistent with the opinions of everyone else I have spoken with in this field. Certainly one's experience in another field may be entirely different.
Click to expand...

Ah, lawyers...never mind..
 
flyingcheesehead said:
This was true, but no longer. There are places that won't hire you if you show up in a suit because you "wouldn't fit in the company culture." This is sound advice when you're interviewing at IBM, but not so much at Google.

The wisdom these days is to ask ahead of time what you should wear to the interview, and make it the best version of what they tell you.
Click to expand...

I often hear "you don't have to wear a coat if you don't want to." I reply, "I know."

Now then, if they make the same comments on a female's attire? WATCH OUT!
 
Morgan3820 said:
But you don't seem to be likable...but then you are now going to tell me, "False, I am very likable".
Click to expand...
Having met him at a fly in I can actually say he is likable and funny.
 
One more thing. The handshake. It should be firm, but not bone crushing. The best way to make it seem firm, but not bone crushing is to press the back of the other person's hand with your right thumb.

Yeah, on that Google thing. I haven't gotten that far, and I agree asking what would be appropriate to wear is a really good idea.
 
Crashnburn said:
One more thing. The handshake. It should be firm, but not bone crushing. The best way to make it seem firm, but not bone crushing is to press the back of the other person's hand with your right thumb.

Yeah, on that Google thing. I haven't gotten that far, and I agree asking what would be appropriate to wear is a really good idea.
Click to expand...
Agree on both.
I have never talked to a hiring manager, myself included, that minded someone asking advice for appropriate dress. In fact, everyone seemed to like it. But I hate to advise anyone of that because they will get the one person that takes offense..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top