[NA]In the history of the internet

[chartbundle]

For me, it’s good to remember, regardless of their persuasion, people seem more often than not to use Internet forums like a drunk uses a lamppost: more for support than illumination.

I thought that analogy was going in more of a dog vs fire hydrant sort of way.

 

[JOhnH]

Yes.

 

[GrummanBear]

Ya’all should give yourselves some credit. A lot of content in here is beneficial, entertaining, or simply informative. Sure, there are a few malcontents marking their territory throughout the forums, but it’s an acceptable inconvenience - even the finest cities have rats.

 

[denverpilot]

Debate is not my intention, just a statement of facts. His spending projects, education projects, infrastructure projects, and a very aggressive progressive tax policy is not all indicative of the current political state of the party he belonged to.

Presidents spent money back then instead of Congress. Huh. Who knew?

And he didn’t have an exactly half and half spilt between full control by both parties during his term.

Forgotten history, I guess.

The current parties don’t outspend them by orders of magnitude after inflation adjustments, per capita, and nobody now pays more as a percentage of their income as taxes either, as back then.

Think you might want to check all those “facts”.

Especially that part about who spends money in our system of government. I assume both Texas and homeschoolers cover that one.

Pretending in fairy tale land for a moment that Ike actually wrote the checks...

The actual numbers of spending and taxation both of today, make him look like a complete pansy. He actually had to work with a currency fixed to a commodity, for one. Couldn’t just suck away 3% of your purchasing power a year to cover the interest payments on “his” loans.

Ike’s got nothing on a group of people who had a 2000 page spending document written and approved in 48 hours. Big spender... pffft. Not even his job, let alone could he possibly keep up with the modern crowd.

Where in the world do you get these ideas that don’t even acknowledge how our government works? You know it doesn’t. How does stuff like that get by your knowledge of the system since grade school?

It’s an impressive mythology. Is it you making this stuff up, or who, because it’s really funny.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

IBTL! (Looking at you, @denverpilot!)

has anyone, anywhere ever had their opinion about anything changed?

Yes.

There are two ways to go about life, in terms of who you associate with, be it physically or electronically.

You can surround yourself with people who believe the same things you do. This is very easy and will make you feel good, because you will think you are right about everything, and that everyone agrees with you, and that your group knows everything.

Or, you can surround yourself with people who are really smart, regardless of what they believe, and you can listen to them. This is not easy. It challenges your preconcieved notions, makes you feel like you know nothing, and may make you feel isolated and alone in your views.

The latter is also the only way you will become smarter and wiser yourself. And it sure is a helluva lot less boring.

So yes, I've had my mind changed on a lot of things, even on the Internet, because I choose to associate with (mostly) smart people with a wide variety of viewpoints.

Or, expressed as a fraction, how many arguments resulted in one solid about face?

Not many, sadly. The Internet makes it easier than ever to be part of the first group above, even if you have some seriously fringe beliefs. One friend of mine posted on Facebook yesterday that he ended up trying to be polite through a one-way conversation - at the airport, sadly - and after 20 minutes stopped the guy and said "OK, let me just get a baseline here. Earth is a roughly spherical object and we did go to the moon, right?"

I find that everyone disagrees with me because I normally have a middle position which can be contested from both sides.

And you can see the strengths and weaknesses of both sides. That's why I don't think I've ever disagreed with something you posted, even in the Spin Zone days. Now if only we can clone you a couple hundred million times, maybe we could have a productive political conversation in this country.

 

[SoonerAviator]

I can't say as though I've ever completely changed my mind due to something on the internet, but I've certainly added more nuance to my opinion or stances. I believe a lot of that has to do with not being generally hard line on most subjects that cause divisiveness. I don't tend to go into most discussions thinking I have all the facts or that my current thoughts are enscribed in stone. I'm also not especially perturbed when someone doesn't share my same thoughts on a particular subject, so I'm unlikely to get drawn into a heated debate over Ford vs Chevy (Ford, obviously) or any number of similar subjects.

 

[denverpilot]

IBTL! (Looking at you, @denverpilot!)

Hey I didn’t start anything political.

I just rehashed sixth grade civics and debunked an assertion that someone not even allowed to spend money, was not even close to spending real money. Like multiple zeros added on levels of not even close.

As far as something else you said goes, I’ve always gotten a kick out of the phrase, “I surround myself with smart people.”

By what measure? How would you know?

That question has always been fun around a campfire.

I know a true “idiot savant”. The guy even admits it and has no idea why. He is an absolutely brilliant electrician. He can beat any electrical engineer to the correct practical answer to any electrical question faster than anybody I’ve ever seen. Literally everything else he discusses falls at about a 9th grade level. He’s completely aware of it, too.

Most people are like that just in a much more subtle way, IMHO. I’m a complete dumb butt at some things and damn good at others.

(But at least I’m smart enough not to blame it all on the populist Dunning-Kruger effect like most people trying to sound intelligent this decade. LOL. )

Everybody has talents. Everyone has areas they suck at.

One area I know for sure — Presidents don’t really spend money. LOL. That one is pretty easy to look up.

More trivia many don’t know. Presidents used to be able to NOT spend money appropriated.

Impoundment.

Congress removed that Presidential privilege officially from all future Presidents starting in 1974 with Richard Nixon.

Oh right. Middle of the road.

Middle of the roaders really aren’t. You can always find something they’ll say no to eventually. Usually involves killing someone but it’s always there. There is almost nobody who’ll put up with that and go, “Aww, some people just like to kill. It’s okay!” Haha.

Plus middle of the road rarely gets stuff done.

You can be as nice as can be, and still be George Westinghouse to Thomas Edison. And beat him. Like totally whip his butt without a single harsh word. Ha. LOL. AC vs DC. You just have to be right.

Westinghouse didn’t do too bad for a guy who got his start creating air brakes who treated nearly everyone fairly to a fault.

People today say Saturday off was started by unions. Not true. That was Westinghouse. Saturday half a day paid. Sunday off. Unheard of.

Safe working conditions, fire sprinklers, good housing with insurance on the house paid by the company if you got hurt in the plant, proper breaks for stopping exhaustion and accidents.

All Westinghouse. Not a union.

Not a single plant of his ever had a union vote or union created as long as he had control of them.

But the myth of unions providing all those things first, persists. Makes for a better story I guess.

AFAIK I don’t know any George Westinghouse level smart folk. Not that they’d be waiting around for me to “surround myself” with them anyway. Ha.

Westinghouse trivia: Massive memory. It was told that people who worked with him warned new people, “Never say anything you don’t want him to bring up ten years from now. He will remember every word you say.”

“Smart” or just walking encyclopedia? That story reminds me of you on certain topics. I have to look aviation stuff up you remembered the first time you heard it. It’s a talent of yours.

I remember stupid crap like Impoundment. Totally worthless information to my daily life. Haha. But it sticks.

The “what makes a person ‘smart’” would be an interesting thread.

I’ve certainly noticed they’re not people I could just surround myself with, they kinda just show up randomly. Like the electrician.

Don’t ask him about anything else, though. You’ll have a really bad day if you take his advice on finance or plumbing.

Dave’s really awful at history and civics. Doesn’t mean he can’t completely outfly my azz. I’m absolutely sure he can.

Just don’t ask him how government spending works, or you’ll have a really bad day.

I remember crap like there’s five official things a President can do with a spending bill, but can only name three off the top of my head. But I know the pocket veto isn’t one of the officially listed ones by law.

My brain likes the fun stuff like those.

Way more interesting than “Can sign it in ten days, can send it back with objections in ten days, can veto it...” yawn. Booooring!

Much more interesting to know George Westinghouse drilled for natural gas in his front yard, and when the well was set on fire by the crew and flames shot up 150’ for days, people came for miles to check it out.

Neighbors were really MAD. Haha. So he drilled three more in his yard, built a distribution system, and gave them all free natural gas.

LOL.

The world needs more Westinghouses. Not politicians. Certainly not Ike.

He’s a long LONG way down from someone like Westinghouse for making the world a better place for everybody.

War generals as Presidents are pretty meh really. Ike was better than Grant I suppose.

Best President ever? My vote goes to William Henry Harrison. Keeling over dead four weeks in office is the best possible job anyone could hope for in any politician.

Bravo! Need more like that!

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

My opinion on the death penalty has changed but it wasn’t really due to the internet.

You guys change my mind about changing my mind all the time.

 

[wsuffa]

IBTL! (Looking at you, @denverpilot!)



Yes.

There are two ways to go about life, in terms of who you associate with, be it physically or electronically.

You can surround yourself with people who believe the same things you do. This is very easy and will make you feel good, because you will think you are right about everything, and that everyone agrees with you, and that your group knows everything.

Or, you can surround yourself with people who are really smart, regardless of what they believe, and you can listen to them. This is not easy. It challenges your preconcieved notions, makes you feel like you know nothing, and may make you feel isolated and alone in your views.

The latter is also the only way you will become smarter and wiser yourself. And it sure is a helluva lot less boring.

So yes, I've had my mind changed on a lot of things, even on the Internet, because I choose to associate with (mostly) smart people with a wide variety of viewpoints.



Not many, sadly. The Internet makes it easier than ever to be part of the first group above, even if you have some seriously fringe beliefs. One friend of mine posted on Facebook yesterday that he ended up trying to be polite through a one-way conversation - at the airport, sadly - and after 20 minutes stopped the guy and said "OK, let me just get a baseline here. Earth is a roughly spherical object and we did go to the moon, right?

IMHO, I might tweak the Internet statement to say that social media - like Facebook - not only makes it easier, but actually encourages belonging to the first group. It does that by mining your interests and show you what it's algorithms thing will appeal to those interests. A virtual echo chamber if you will.


In that respect I think it does a disservice compared to a media operation that actively encourages alternate positions to be heard.

Otherwise, I agree with your comments.