[NA]Household plumbing

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Dave Taylor
Am I going to be happy with these valves?
They are “push-fit” vs threaded, or direct sweat connection.

This is for a rework of a room where there will be a water heater, recirc pump, water softener.

The problem I’ve had with threaded valves is that I will crank them tight to the adapter (threaded to slip, with thread compound), set the valve in the orientation I need, then sweat the joint.
Soon as I pressurize the system, a seep will occur and I’ll need to crank the threads a smidge more to get it to stop. Which alters the perfect valve orientation I had!

I thought this might fix that problem.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/gripwerks-3-4-in-ball-valve-push-to-connect-42703a
 
I’ve used them quite a few times. Haven’t regretted it. I think the oldest has only been in use a few years, so time will tell… but none of the plumbers I’ve dealt with have told me I’m an idiot for using them.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
This is for a rework of a room where there will be a water heater, recirc pump, water softener.
Click to expand...
This is for an inline valve? What's it going between? Can you use one with compression fittings?
 
Do you have PEX? Pretty simple if you do. Huge PITA if you don’t. Plumbers have crimped copper fittings if you have copper pipe. Very quick, clean, and reliable.
 
Not sure exactly what you're referring to, but I use Shark Bites all the time and have never had a leak.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Am I going to be happy with these valves?
They are “push-fit” vs threaded, or direct sweat connection.

This is for a rework of a room where there will be a water heater, recirc pump, water softener.

The problem I’ve had with threaded valves is that I will crank them tight to the adapter (threaded to slip, with thread compound), set the valve in the orientation I need, then sweat the joint.
Soon as I pressurize the system, a seep will occur and I’ll need to crank the threads a smidge more to get it to stop. Which alters the perfect valve orientation I had!

I thought this might fix that problem.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/gripwerks-3-4-in-ball-valve-push-to-connect-42703a
Click to expand...
If you're going to go the push-to-connect route...I would go with a real Sharkbite over a knock-off Sharkbite (which is what that is). Sort of like the difference between using real AN bolts vs China AN bolts made of old cheese.

Most of the "shark bite failure" photos I've seen on the internet are of the off-brand knock-off variety. Usually paper thin metal that corrodes too easily.

Anyhow. The downside to sharkbites is that you are counting on an o-ring to make the seal. In the event that the o-ring fails some day (usually related to excessive pipe movement), then they make a real mess.

If you're making a copper to copper connection, the best/cheapest option would be to solder. Next best option (and what you'd probably see most professionals using these days) would be something like the Viega ProPress system. 3rd best option would probably be a Sharkbite. A generic sharkbite would be really far down the list.

Anyhow...what material are you working with here? Copper? Pex A? Pex B? Something else?
 
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yeah, 25 mins of google/yt and I also found using knock-offs is undesirable.

It’s all copper right now, I suppose it could be changed to Pex; I have the tools.
Just not as used to it vs copper/solder.
Would Pex + Sharkbites all round be acceptable?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Would Pex + Sharkbites all round be acceptable?
Click to expand...
Depends who you talk to. Some places it is against code to put sharkbites inside a wall. Other places it is fine. Anyhow, I wouldn't be worried about using a sharkbite on something that was easily accessible, but I wouldn't be too excited about burying one behind drywall. They are super easy to replace if you spot a leak someday. Just not easy if hidden behind drywall and you don't discover it until the mold is coming out of your electrical outlets.

The biggest problem with doing Pex + Sharkbite on a big project is cost. Sharkbite fittings are stupid expensive. Like $15/pop. On any project of size you would either do crimp fittings on the PEX or expansion. The fitting cost going that route is like 1/50th the cost. Crimp or expansion on Pex is more reliable, cheaper, and almost as fast. Only downside is you need to buy the tools.

Sharkbites really shine if you're trying to connect something like copper to pex. Or you have an emergency with a pipe blowing water everywhere. A guy can easily pop one on which is a better option than trying to shut the water off sometimes.

You won't find a lot of plumbers that don't have an assortment of Sharkbites in their van. They are very useful in the right situations. However, you won't generally see that plumber using it for the vast majority of their connections - because it is a little less reliable and 50X more expensive.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Its all exposed; no drywall
Click to expand...
I used some recently on some exposed plumbing in my shop. Went together easily and no leaks. It's not something I'm worried about. Make sure you are fully seating the Sharkbite fitting. It can take quite a bit of force. If attaching to copper, make sure you use their deburring tool, else you risk the copper damaging the o-ring.

I didn't got the crimp route, because I hate cheap tools, and that is all the home stores sell. I only buy the best tools generally. It would take me time to research those tools, order those tools, and likely wouldn't be cheap. So given all this...I grabbed a few sharkbite fittings and had no issues.

The fitting cost would quickly become prohibitive on a large scale project. In that case, I wouldn't use Sharkbite and would invest in the tools to crimp or expand.
 
If you use Shark Bites with PEX, make SURE you use the plastic insert in the pipe.
 
I use Sharkbites for repairs, but rarely for primary work. I would avoid a sharkbite valve if it's going to be operated frequently as it can easily rotate on the pipes when you're turning it.
 
Dana said:
I use Sharkbites for repairs, but rarely for primary work. I would avoid a sharkbite valve if it's going to be operated frequently as it can easily rotate on the pipes when you're turning it.
Click to expand...

I was imagining they sell a clamp that can be used to affix the valves to a wooden board?
 
Unless one were in a hurry, why choose Sharkbite over compression fittings?
 
Plumbing - one of the only trades where I hire out. I hate doing it along with the countless trips to the plumbing store.
 
I've used shark bites. Usually with good results, but they will leak after a few years. The longest i have is about 10 yrs, and I had to replace that one about 2 weeks ago. I only use them on temporary places now. Such as I'm currently doing the bathroom remodel in one of our places. I use the sharbites for temporary caps until the sink is in and i put compression valves in.
The building inspectors in our area are pushing for them to be only temporary. It's so easy to sweat pipes these days with MAP gas, that I wonder why anyone would bother with rubber "O" ring connections.
We now have a place that is all PEX. I think PEX "B" anyway guess I need to learn about that now.
 
Ventucky Red said:
Plumbing - one of the only trades where I hire out. I hate doing it along with the countless trips to the plumbing store.
Click to expand...

From an old old issue of Readers Digest:

A man goes to a local hardware store to pick up some parts for a DIY plumbing repair. As the man is leaving, the owner tell him "See you in a bit...". The man asks why? He's not planning to be back. The owner tells the man that everytime a homeowner does a plumbing repair, it always involves three trips to the store. The man leaves, confident that he won't need to be back.

But, sure enough, the man needs to go back and pick up a different part. The owners gives him a knowing look and again says "See you in a bit...".

And you guessed it, the man needs yet another part.

But he goes to a different hardware store.
 
You mentioned water heater and water softener as part of the mix. With both of those, I'd expect that the valves would occasionally be used to turn off the water to replace the tank and work on the softener. So if it's someone else doing that, there's a chance they're going to rotate the valve a little. No idea of that'll eventually hurt the little o-rings inside, but why chance it? I'd use solder fittings.

Soldering copper pipes is pretty easy, if you just keep a couple of things in mind - clean, like bright and shiny clean, lots of flux, and heat the joint, not the solder. Oh, and get good solder. Last I bought was Sterling, think it's a Harris brand, works just about as well as 50/50, but it's lead free. Not cheap, though. The default stuff sold at big box stores used to be terrible....not sure if that's still true.

Re three trips - yes! I'm getting better, but repairing some of the old faucets and such around my place, built in the 50's, multiple changes over the years since then, and keeping a bunch of stuff on hand it still often takes me multiple trips, and some Internet searching.
 
Sweat connections are the way. Easy, strong, and won’t leak if done properly.

As the previous poster said, clean the fitting and pipe, use flux, and heat the fitting and not the joint (so you don’t burn off the flux). If you burn off the flux, the solder won’t flow into the joint and you’ll have to start over. Wipe the excess solder away before it cools.

I usually prep and assemble everything so I know it fits, and then go around and solder each fitting. Make sure valves are open and, obviously, the system is free of water.
 
As a side note..............If there is water present, it will steam and ruin the sweat joint. So what I was taught many years ago by a plumber is a piece of trivia, but useful. Take a piece of bread. Push it in the copper pipe as far as you can. then sweat the joint. The bread cooks, keeps the steam away, and will flow out though a faucet when the water is turned on. I have used that trick numerous times with wet pipes. Maybe with MAP gas its not as important since it gets hot so fast. But a good trick.
 
Follow on question; I did most of this with copper (soldered) and ran out At.The.Absolutely.Last.Fitting. (incidentally)
So I need to replenish and looking for your, as usual, erudite opinions.
For most of my life, it's been Pb (no comments on what that did to me)
Now, of course it's all lead-free.
I looked at the spool I'd been using; Sn and Sb.
Go to buy some at the hardware store today, Sixty Six dollars a pound!
Go online looking and there are many types now, Silver, Tn/An, other alloys - what is best in the price/usefulness matrix?
The Tn/An worked like a charm, great handling.
 
PS I decided on soldered copper because I had quite a few fittings left over from the last project.
Guess how many more leftover fittings I have now, compared to when I started.
 
Last stuff I bought was this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0070XZM2G But I don't know if that link is still valid.

It's lead free, but from the docs melts at 410F. I think it has selenium in it, it's an unusual alloy. Flows just fine with a propane torch, you don't need map with it. Very similar to 60/40 solder, not quite as "thick" as 50/50 if that makes any sense.

For structural soldering, flashing or whatever, or non-potable water (boiler) I still use 50/50. For electronics I still use 63/37. But I do use the lead free stuff for drinking water.

For flux, I used to use a white, water based Berzomatic flux, but I can't find that anymore. Lately I've been using a pasty/greasy stuff from a box store, and can't stand it. So ordered some Harris from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001HWAE9C No idea how it works, but I'm sure better than the orange box brand.

I like soldered copper compared to anything else, because it's the most reliable copper connection for a residence, with the possible exception of crimp.

I'm doing some plumbing work myself lately. Replacing old threaded valves that are leaky for one thing.
 
I forgot to get back and mention that, there was concern here about inadvertent rotation of the sharkbite valve following installation resulting in minor damage to the o-ring and subsequent leaks.
I think that can be avoided with the version that allows attachment to a wall (etc)

https://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBi...-Ball-Valve-with-Drain-24617-0000LF/309670433

anyway, I now have about 9 of these installed; no leaks, not even damp.
Only thing I notice is that I would not plan to use their tool to remove them; ie don't make mistakes. I found them impossible to remove (3/4" valves)sb with drop ears.png
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I forgot to get back and mention that, there was concern here about inadvertent rotation of the sharkbite valve following installation resulting in minor damage to the o-ring and subsequent leaks.
I think that can be avoided with the version that allows attachment to a wall (etc)

https://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBi...-Ball-Valve-with-Drain-24617-0000LF/309670433

anyway, I now have about 9 of these installed; no leaks, not even damp.
Only thing I notice is that I would not plan to use their tool to remove them; ie don't make mistakes. I found them impossible to remove (3/4" valves)View attachment 115406
Click to expand...
Which tool are you using? They sell two options. I bought both and promptly threw the first option away after trying both.

This one sucks:
07827489.jpg

This one is great:
07827413.jpg


This YouTube video shows the technique. It really is that easy:
 
ya, Jesse - that’s a 1/2” pipe - no problem.
Try a 3/4” sometime.
I have the ‘good’ tool.
 
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