[NA] Help me plan a European Christmas vacation

[CJones]

So iteration 178.4 of my plan so far (due to change at any second)...

Fly in to Munich as a jumping-off spot. See some sites (TBD) around that area then migrate over toward Vienna (our kids' piano teacher suggested they see Mozart stuff in the area as well). From Vienna to Prague for a day(ish). Then up to Cologne to see friend - likely try to time this for Christmas with their family. Maybe stop off in Nuremburg while en route to Cologne if feasible. Use Cologne as a jumping off spot for other things in the region before migrating to London for New Year's. I have been informed that my EOT target has shifted and we need to be headed home by 1/2, so that cuts roughly a week out of my original plan.

VERY preliminary so far and highly likely to change drastically, but man... y'all have provided so many good options!

 

[Warlock]

Your route is very doable and compact enough to make it work…travel from the south of Germany or Austria to Prague will be the longest leg taking most of a day…so I would plan two nights if you can and Nuremberg a wonderful place will seem less spectacular and maybe bypass if you have time restraints…I would depart Cologne to London via air as both Eurowings flies into Heathrow and Ryan into Stansted inexpensive and direct. Second best option is Brussels with both BRU offering easy access by plane and also Chunnel via Eurostar out of Midi train station. Having a place in Leuvan till a couple of years ago used both routes for family.

 

[EdFred]

I may have the opportunity to take our family of four (including two boys age 11 & 9) to Europe over Christmas break this year. Looking at the roughly 3 weeks when the boys are out of school (12/17/22 ~ 1/8/23). We had hoped to do this trip early next summer and spend a whole five weeks but some things at work have changed and I need to get it done before 2/1/23.

Some things to consider:

1. I don't mind touristy stuff for the "You have to see this at least once in your lifetime - it's totally worth it", but other than that I prefer to stay away from the stuff that everyone goes to see - we want to see EUROPE, not just the full-size version of all the postcards you see (I've heard that the Mona Lisa, while interesting, is like wading through Wal-Mart on Black Friday just to see a 8x11 portrait on a wall - that. sounds. horrible.).
2. Personally, I would love to hit all the historical places - my wife toured Auschwitz when she was in Poland a month or so ago and it has really opened her up to seeing historical stuff first-hand more than before. HOWEVER, we do have two boys with us that will get bored of plaque reading if it is an all-day affair, so looking to sprinkle some history in, but this isn't a trip sponsored by a History class, either.
3. I don't view this (good Lord willing, and the creeks don't rise) as our only trip to EU. I would love for this to be our jumping off spot for travel back to focused areas, so looking at this being a somewhat of a scouting trip for future trips.
4. Obviously any "This place has an amazing experience for Christmas/New Year's" would want to at least be on our radar.

Thoughts/suggestion?

...standing by for all the Clark Griswold memes (I'm looking at you, EdFred)...

My "ideal" trip to Europe would be fly into London, spend a day or two looking at fog. Then book train tickets for the rest of the trip. While on the the way to France via train, blow a rape whistle while in The Chunnel. Spend a day or two in Paris in line at the Louvre, not actually see anything, just spend time in line. Break the law by taking a picture of the Eiffel Tower at night. Then on to Switzerland for two days of skiing. Only spend 1/2 a day skiing and spend a week in the hospital with a broken leg. Then head down to Rome to check out some crumbly old buildings while being pushed around in a wheelchair. Back north to Venice, but not be able to do anything because you can't get in and out of the gondolas. On to Austria to only drink hot cocoa because the broken leg prevents skiing at Innsbruck. Then off to Germany where you get arrested while trying to hail a cab because with the way you tried walking with a broken leg it looked rather goose-steppish. Get deported and then fined by customs upon arrival to the US because your kids forgot to tell you they got chocolate in Switzerland and put it in your suitcase.

Let me know how it goes.

 

[CJones]

My "ideal" trip to Europe would be fly into London, spend a day or two looking at fog. Then book train tickets for the rest of the trip. While on the the way to France via train, blow a rape whistle while in The Chunnel. Spend a day or two in Paris in line at the Louvre, not actually see anything, just spend time in line. Break the law by taking a picture of the Eiffel Tower at night. Then on to Switzerland for two days of skiing. Only spend 1/2 a day skiing and spend a week in the hospital with a broken leg. Then head down to Rome to check out some crumbly old buildings while being pushed around in a wheelchair. Back north to Venice, but not be able to do anything because you can't get in and out of the gondolas. On to Austria to only drink hot cocoa because the broken leg prevents skiing at Innsbruck. Then off to Germany where you get arrested while trying to hail a cab because with the way you tried walking with a broken leg it looked rather goose-steppish. Get deported and then fined by customs upon arrival to the US because your kids forgot to tell you they got chocolate in Switzerland and put it in your suitcase.

Let me know how it goes.

There we go. I knew I could count on you.

 

[EdFred]

There we go. I knew I could count on you.

You're welcome. Seriously though, something along those lines would be how I would want to do it. UK ==> FR ==> CH ==> IT ==> AT ==> DE ==> NL and just spend a couple days in each city. Possibly multiple cities in each country. A cool summer trip would be to rent motorcycles in France and basically ride le Tour route a week or so after the completion.

 

[Llewtrah381]

So iteration 178.4 of my plan so far (due to change at any second)...

Fly in to Munich as a jumping-off spot. See some sites (TBD) around that area then migrate over toward Vienna (our kids' piano teacher suggested they see Mozart stuff in the area as well). From Vienna to Prague for a day(ish). Then up to Cologne to see friend - likely try to time this for Christmas with their family. Maybe stop off in Nuremburg while en route to Cologne if feasible. Use Cologne as a jumping off spot for other things in the region before migrating to London for New Year's. I have been informed that my EOT target has shifted and we need to be headed home by 1/2, so that cuts roughly a week out of my original plan.

VERY preliminary so far and highly likely to change drastically, but man... y'all have provided so many good options!

That sounds like a good trip.

Especially with kids, don’t forget you’ll be the driver - not a tour bus driver doing it for you. The driving isn’t bad but what you describe includes a good amount. Just make sure you budget for enough time to enjoy the sights and to relax for a coffee, beer, etc. along the way.

As for driving over there, you can legally just go with your US driver’s license but I highly recommend you do some homework re the rules, signs, etc. For example, yes, there’s “no speed limit” on the Autobahns - until there are. Especially around big cities, there are limits and they’re typically enforced with the camera things. And tix aren’t cheap - but the real expense is the car rental company tacking on a hefty fee for passing your info on to the police, so you basically get two tickets.

Also, in some countries speed limits are set by where you are rather than signs with numbers: in NL, for example, the sign with a silhouette of a village with a line through it, showing you’re leaving the city, basically means it’s now 70km/hr while the same sign without the line (going into town) means it’s 50. Unless there ARE speed limit signs.

Finally, I don’t think there are any toll roads in Germany per se but in France and Italy there are ones with booths. But in Czech (and Switzerland, I believe) it’s more of an “honor system” where you buy a pass at a gas station, etc for the toll roads for a period of time. Apparently if you’re caught on the toll road (typically for some other reason) and don’t have the pass, there’s a steep fine.

Bottom line, make sure to budget enough time to enjoy things rather than just tick off a list and just know the basics of driving - in several similar but slightly different countries. Again, the Rick Steves stuff is a good resource.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

You need (toll) stickers for Austria, Czech and Switzerland.

 

[Pinecone]

I love Prague also. But went once for the week before Christmas. I have NEVER been SO COLD in my life.

We made a side trip to Pilzen, the home of beer. A nice beer museum and tour of the Pilsner Urquell plant.

 

[Kitch]

It seems like National Lampoon would have a documentary on this.

I knew I wasn't the only one that thought this when I read the title....

 

[CJones]

That sounds like a good trip.

Especially with kids, don’t forget you’ll be the driver - not a tour bus driver doing it for you. The driving isn’t bad but what you describe includes a good amount. Just make sure you budget for enough time to enjoy the sights and to relax for a coffee, beer, etc. along the way.

As for driving over there, you can legally just go with your US driver’s license but I highly recommend you do some homework re the rules, signs, etc. For example, yes, there’s “no speed limit” on the Autobahns - until there are. Especially around big cities, there are limits and they’re typically enforced with the camera things. And tix aren’t cheap - but the real expense is the car rental company tacking on a hefty fee for passing your info on to the police, so you basically get two tickets.

Also, in some countries speed limits are set by where you are rather than signs with numbers: in NL, for example, the sign with a silhouette of a village with a line through it, showing you’re leaving the city, basically means it’s now 70km/hr while the same sign without the line (going into town) means it’s 50. Unless there ARE speed limit signs.

Finally, I don’t think there are any toll roads in Germany per se but in France and Italy there are ones with booths. But in Czech (and Switzerland, I believe) it’s more of an “honor system” where you buy a pass at a gas station, etc for the toll roads for a period of time. Apparently if you’re caught on the toll road (typically for some other reason) and don’t have the pass, there’s a steep fine.

Bottom line, make sure to budget enough time to enjoy things rather than just tick off a list and just know the basics of driving - in several similar but slightly different countries. Again, the Rick Steves stuff is a good resource.

Great tips!

Our plan right now is to try to utilize trains as much as possible - at least for the long legs. One, for reasons you mentioned about knowing all the rules over there and two, I want to be able to see the sites too and not be worried about trying to find my way around. I did like the comment someone shared here about rental cars being available at some train stations so we may be able to venture out to the countryside at least a few times along the way (and hitting the Autobahn as an added bonus ).

 

[CJones]

You're welcome. Seriously though, something along those lines would be how I would want to do it. UK ==> FR ==> CH ==> IT ==> AT ==> DE ==> NL and just spend a couple days in each city. Possibly multiple cities in each country. A cool summer trip would be to rent motorcycles in France and basically ride le Tour route a week or so after the completion.

Our original thought was to start north and work south, but then the whole "NYE in London" thing seemed kinda cool, so we flipped the script a bit and are thinking about South -> North now. I'm not a fan of crowds, but I think NYE fireworks in London will be one of those things that the kids remember for a long time.

 

[Llewtrah381]

Great tips!

Our plan right now is to try to utilize trains as much as possible - at least for the long legs. One, for reasons you mentioned about knowing all the rules over there and two, I want to be able to see the sites too and not be worried about trying to find my way around. I did like the comment someone shared here about rental cars being available at some train stations so we may be able to venture out to the countryside at least a few times along the way (and hitting the Autobahn as an added bonus ).

We’ve never done a “just by train” trip but it’s absolutely feasible in much of Europe. It changes options but so does dealing with a rental car. Plus, make sure you pack in a way to make it easy to navigate train stations!

We usually rent stick shifts when we’re on the mainland because they’re surprisingly affordable. In the UK, I chicken out: the pedals are the same as here but the stick is on the left. Anyway - having a place to lock your bags every day is a plus.

Add: don’t forget the weather that time of the year, especially if going by train

 

[Sluggo63]

Your route is very doable and compact enough to make it work…travel from the south of Germany or Austria to Prague will be the longest leg taking most of a day…so I would plan two nights if you can and Nuremberg a wonderful place will seem less spectacular and maybe bypass if you have time restraints…I would depart Cologne to London via air as both Eurowings flies into Heathrow and Ryan into Stansted inexpensive and direct. Second best option is Brussels with both BRU offering easy access by plane and also Chunnel via Eurostar out of Midi train station. Having a place in Leuvan till a couple of years ago used both routes for family.

DO NOT FLY RYAN AIR.

DO NOT FLY RYAN AIR.

DO NOT FLY RYAN AIR.

Out of Cologne, I’d take Eurowings like @Warlock said. Köln and Düsseldorf are hubs for them and you can get anywhere from either of those two cities. They are like SWA quality. Ryan Air is sub-Spirit quality. We always sprung for the upgraded ticket on Eurowings. Got us a little better seat and a free drink/snack. If you have status on United (Star Alliance Gold), you can get into the Lufthansa lounge flying on Eurowings.

Also, DO NOT FLY RYAN AIR.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

I think you should fly Ryan Air. Way cheaper.

 

[X3 Skier]

Dan Gryder endorses Ryan Air. (Tons of Complaints to Exploit).

Cheers

 

[Brad W]

I'm sorta toying with doing a similar trip but it would be shorter...the week between Christmas and New years (more or less)...so I'm thinking just one or two cities.... preferably see some snow someplace too. Probably won't happen but this thread is a bit helpful

 

[Warlock]

I have a Ryan Air flight from Rome to Brussels in three weeks as a backup if my nonrev flights out of Rome blow up…it has its purpose…but even I probably will not use the tickets…lol and yes they make Spirt look good…

 

[Chrisgoesflying]

I'd rather walk before I set foot on a RYANAIR flight again. Flew with them twice when I lived in Europe being semi broke.

 

[mandm]

Naples and the surrounding area (Pompeii, Ischia, etc) are interesting but the crime there really needs to be kept in mind, especially with kids. Just know before you go…

Naples was a bit scary, I would skip it. This being from someone who is familiar with inner city, not worth the headache bringing children there. Although there’s a great Michelin star restaurant if you do go.

 

[mandm]

Flying in Europe is yikes terrifying experience. Lots of industrial action, most flights are connecting flights and waste an entire day. They are always late up to 2 hours which is when the compensation starts. So they will wait until the last minute to depart. Usually the discount airlines offer the direct routes but if they are cancelled then you are left with no other option. We had a flight cancelled then had to book an entire day journey with another airline that cost well over €600. The next flight on the cancelled airline was 2-3 days out so no choices when you plan a schedule. Stick to trains if you can.

Summer is awfully busy, so going in December I think you’ll be fine.

London
Tunnel/train to Paris
Versailles, outlet mall outside of Paris if you like to shop brands
Travel around France, Bordeaux, Nice, Cannes, Monaco
Add Switzerland (I would get a car for travel around France - pay extra for the biggest thing they got, it will probably be a smaller version of a CRV, their 5 bag cars are Fiats )
Take a train to Amsterdam, very clean city, known as the Venice of the north
Belgium or Prague
Italy is a TON of walking, I routinely walk 10 miles a day, that is nothing compared to Italy walking on uneven surfaces.
Don’t rush yourself.

 

[mandm]

That sounds like a good trip.

Especially with kids, don’t forget you’ll be the driver - not a tour bus driver doing it for you. The driving isn’t bad but what you describe includes a good amount. Just make sure you budget for enough time to enjoy the sights and to relax for a coffee, beer, etc. along the way.

As for driving over there, you can legally just go with your US driver’s license but I highly recommend you do some homework re the rules, signs, etc. For example, yes, there’s “no speed limit” on the Autobahns - until there are. Especially around big cities, there are limits and they’re typically enforced with the camera things. And tix aren’t cheap - but the real expense is the car rental company tacking on a hefty fee for passing your info on to the police, so you basically get two tickets.

Also, in some countries speed limits are set by where you are rather than signs with numbers: in NL, for example, the sign with a silhouette of a village with a line through it, showing you’re leaving the city, basically means it’s now 70km/hr while the same sign without the line (going into town) means it’s 50. Unless there ARE speed limit signs.

Finally, I don’t think there are any toll roads in Germany per se but in France and Italy there are ones with booths. But in Czech (and Switzerland, I believe) it’s more of an “honor system” where you buy a pass at a gas station, etc for the toll roads for a period of time. Apparently if you’re caught on the toll road (typically for some other reason) and don’t have the pass, there’s a steep fine.

Bottom line, make sure to budget enough time to enjoy things rather than just tick off a list and just know the basics of driving - in several similar but slightly different countries. Again, the Rick Steves stuff is a good resource.

Italy has those restricted driving zones and cameras in the streets automatically send you violations. Keep in mind that any car rental company will charge you more money after your rental has been completed.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

If you're planning on trains, I don't remember very convenient trains to Prague. We were coming from the Frankfurt area so maybe it's better where you'd be coming from. We drove but we also owned cars there.

 

[Pinecone]

DO NOT FLY RYAN AIR.

DO NOT FLY RYAN AIR.

DO NOT FLY RYAN AIR.

Out of Cologne, I’d take Eurowings like @Warlock said. Köln and Düsseldorf are hubs for them and you can get anywhere from either of those two cities. They are like SWA quality. Ryan Air is sub-Spirit quality. We always sprung for the upgraded ticket on Eurowings. Got us a little better seat and a free drink/snack. If you have status on United (Star Alliance Gold), you can get into the Lufthansa lounge flying on Eurowings.

Also, DO NOT FLY RYAN AIR.

AGREED.

WhizzAir is pretty good.

Trains are great around Europe, but pack light. Not a lot of room for luggage on the trains.

London is great for NYE. What I did, was book a hotel with a room that faced the fireworks. The crowds start gathering around 9 - 10 AM

 

[CJones]

Quick update on what we're thinking now.

I did book the bookend flights: ATL->PRG and LHR->ATL, so now we just need to fill out the middle part.

I think I mentioned earlier that we have friends in Cologne (Köln) that are helping point us in directions for trains, etc.

We're thinking:
Day 0 (5:30ish pm): Land in Prague
Day 1-3: Prague
Day 3: Train from Prague to Vienna
Day 4-6: Vienna
Day 7: Train from Vienna to Salzburg
Day 7-9: Salzburg (possibly rent a car to explore the countryside a bit)
Day 9: Fly from Salzburg to Köln
Day 9-12: Cologne with friends
Day 13: Train from Cologne to Paris
Day 13-15: Paris
Day 16: Train to London
Day 16-18: London
Day 19: Fly home.

To me, this looks like we have enough time in the key cities to not feel too rushed. I just got back from Singapore/Malaysia trip where I planned 4 'free' days at the end to explore Singapore - I really only needed two to hit the high points. I think since we're going in knowing that we're (hopefully) going to leave every stop wanting to see more, I would rather do it that way than be somewhere and thinking "Good grief.. I'm ready to move on!".

Anything I'm missing here?

 

[Brad W]

I agree sort-of with your idea about leaving earlier rather than staying to long in each city...and especially since you're allocating a full day in some cases for travel...which at least in most cases will still include some time to explore on those travel days

However, it is nice sometimes to have time to not feel so rushed.

You can see a lot with more or less 3 days in a city...but you'll also miss a lot too...even in places where there's not really all that much

Have you considered overnight trains? I am not at all familiar with these locations and routes, but I understand that can be a common way to build in more exploration time for a European adventure.

Anyway, I'm jealous of your 19 days. We are still thinking about trying to cobble together a 1 week trip over there someplace around Christmas/New Years. We can't finagle 19 days off all in one shot very often...did it once to drive our motorhome form NE FL to the Grand Canyon and back...19 days on the road, we were rushed but saw and did a lot. It was a great trip. I think more than 2 weeks is really the way to do a vacation trip. 1 week is just not enough....

 

[Pinecone]

Singapore has a LOT less high points (and is much smaller) that the European cities. Was there a week once (with a weekend) and hit most everything.

I have spent a week in Prague twice, and could spend more time there.

I have spent almost 2 weeks in Vienna and could spend more time there.

I have spent 7 - 10 days in London at least 4 times and 24 hour layovers many time, and could spend more time there.

I have spent a 10 days in Paris and many overnights, and really don't need to go back, but could.

 

[CJones]

I agree sort-of with your idea about leaving earlier rather than staying to long in each city...and especially since you're allocating a full day in some cases for travel...which at least in most cases will still include some time to explore on those travel days

However, it is nice sometimes to have time to not feel so rushed.

You can see a lot with more or less 3 days in a city...but you'll also miss a lot too...even in places where there's not really all that much

Have you considered overnight trains? I am not at all familiar with these locations and routes, but I understand that can be a common way to build in more exploration time for a European adventure.

Anyway, I'm jealous of your 19 days. We are still thinking about trying to cobble together a 1 week trip over there someplace around Christmas/New Years. We can't finagle 19 days off all in one shot very often...did it once to drive our motorhome form NE FL to the Grand Canyon and back...19 days on the road, we were rushed but saw and did a lot. It was a great trip. I think more than 2 weeks is really the way to do a vacation trip. 1 week is just not enough....

Yeah. We are lucky. The company I'm at has a "5-week sabbatical after 5 years of service" program. We were planning on doing this trip next summer and taking advantage of the full 5 weeks, but we were recently acquired, so I'm having to burn as much of the time as I can now as the new company doesn't have this type of program in place, so we're actually scaling our original plan to 'just' 19 days. ha. We're pulling the kids out of school a few days early, but my wife has some hard-stop dates at the beginning and end to book-end things a bit. When we were talking through it, this is probably a good thing that we're sort of being 'forced' to take this trip over Christmas - otherwise, it's pretty unlikely that we would ever choose to skip a family home Christmas to go to Europe. This way, we're getting to experience the trip at a time when we likely would never do.

Luckily, it looks like most of the trains we're looking at taking are only 2-3 hours of travel time (other than PRG -> Vienna which is 4-5hrs), so we're hopping to tack on a few hours of exploring on 'travel' days as well. Hopefully that helps ease some of the feeling of being rushed.

 

[Brad W]

piggybacking on pinecone,
I've only been to Scandinavia a few times when I worked for a Swedish company. I've not been to any of these other places.... but if Stockholm is anything like the rest I can pinecone's point. I was there several times. I would typically arrive Saturday AM and leave out to head North Monday to the company's office. This was back when I was very young and very energetic.... I covered a bunch in a day and a half to two days or so each time I went, but I was pretty much going non-stop and never came close to "all"
I'd spend a week to as many as three weeks in the much smaller town of Hudiksvall....a few hours North of Stockholm where the factory was located. Not much there, and yeah I passed that threshold where I could have moved on already.....but it was still nice to just experience the place, the people, trying different foods, different beers, shopping, etc....

 

[Llewtrah381]

I may have the opportunity to take our family of four (including two boys age 11 & 9) to Europe over Christmas break this year.

So what’s the latest? We just got back yesterday from two weeks in the UK - Conwy, Chester, York, and London. Had a great time despite the fully-expected-but-planned-for UK weather.

 

[CJones]

What. A. Trip.

I'll post more later, but it was a great 19 days. Started in Prague, then to Vienna, then to Salzburg, then to Volders (just east of Innsbruck), then to Cologne, then to Paris and ended up in London for New Year's.

I learned a TON on this trip and will be better prepped to plan the next trip over there - which we will definitely do. By the time we got through Vienna, I had a good grasp on how to deal with public transportation in different cities and the inter-city train systems, which freed up a lot of brain cycles to enjoy the trip more myself.

It was an amazing time to be there - we were early enough (arrived in Prague 12/14) that the cities weren't completely overrun with those pesky tourists, but they still had all the Christmas market feel which was a great thing to experience. By the time we got to Paris and London between Christmas and New Year's, holiday traveler season was in full bloom and it was shoulder-to-shoulder everywhere we went. My wife and I actually commented about how little we heard English being spoken in crows in London. London is definitely an international New Year's destination - and part of me thinks that the London natives all go to Florida or somewhere else for the holiday.

Thanks for the tips here. It was definitely an amazing experience and we'll be back there again for sure.