[NA]Car engine oil

So what is the consensus about going 10,000 mile intervals on a late model Sentra using full synthetic? The manual specs 5,000, and an SH grade 0w20 oil. It does not specify synthetic, although an SH grade 0w20 is hard to find in a conventional form. It exists, probably because the manufacturer likely uses it as a break in oil.
 
SCCutler said:
That there is a seriously good price!
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Bill Jennings said:
I'd love to know how good it is. Kirkland gas is Top Tier, we run it in our cars with no issues. Never hurts that the gas is far cheaper than any other top tier rated stations and and with the Costo Visa card you get 4% back on all gas purchased at Costco. That makes it even a better deal than the cheapest no name gas.
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I was off by $6............it is $30 for 10 quarts. Seems to meet all the current standards.
imageService
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I'm not convinced a clean engine is good or necessary. I've been presented with no evidence that clean engines live longer or work better etc.

Also, the transition from 'sludged'....(sounds bad, but it's just goo in the recesses of the case)....to 'clean' seems to carry some risk.
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For vehicles with variable valve timing and timing chains you be running clean oil.
 
My 2019 Jeep oil life monitor says 8K between changes. Dealer sticker says 5k. Using Mopar branded synthetic.
 
kgruber said:
Do you have a little more info on this? I have an 04' Sub, changed out the transfer case oil once, a long time ago.
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yea it effects all GM 4x4s of that era half ton on up. The bell housing of the t case is magnesium.. the pump inside the case is pressed metal, aluminum i think but still harder than mag... the pump is held in by some tabs sticking off the pump that fit in a depression in the bell housing to keep it from spinning... well the little steel tabs the factory put on the little depressions for the tab are tiny and break and disappear...

You now have that tab tapping up against the magnesium.. over the miles can cut a lil square hole in it...that T case spins in 4x2 and 4x4, by time you know it happened T case is shredded... mine was cut probably half way through... theres several aftermarket kits to remedy it, some simpler than others i thought. But none so complex if ya can drop n crack a t case that ya cant figure out. I think they range from $30-$90...

i think many an old gm that has lost 4 wheel drive was victim of this...
 
imQ said:
My 2019 Jeep oil life monitor says 8K between changes. Dealer sticker says 5k. Using Mopar branded synthetic.
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Roll with the OLM, modern oils are very good and modern engines burn much cleaner, 8k should be no problem. We had one car that had a 13k oil change interval, and I ran the oil 13k every change. When we ditched the car at 170k it wasn't because of the engine. It was strong as a horse, didn't burn or leak oil, and still got original fuel mileage.

The engineers do a pretty good job of determining oil change interval, I've always read and followed TFM, and have never had an oil related issue.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Roll with the OLM, modern oils are very good and modern engines burn much cleaner, 8k should be no problem. We had one car that had a 13k oil change interval, and I ran the oil 13k every change. When we ditched the car at 170k it wasn't because of the engine. It was strong as a horse, didn't burn or leak oil, and still got original fuel mileage.

The engineers do a pretty good job of determining oil change interval, I've always read and followed TFM, and have never had an oil related issue.
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Yup. We use the higher number on oil change interval from the OEM schedule. My '08 F-150 uses 7,500 mile changes on full synthetic (factory spec was synthetic blend). No issues. The only time in recent memory that we've deviated from factory spec was with the '95 300ZX, which we upped to 10K-mile intervals on full synthetic, but that engine ran like a top and didn't use a drop of oil. Original mfg spec was for conventional oil, so going to synthetic and 10K mile oil changes was reasonable. My '07 GP GXP and '07 GMC 1500 both burn 2 qts every 5K miles on full synthetic. Doesn't matter what I run in them, it burns it willingly (both are LS-5.3L V8s) because of that god-awful Active Fuel Management system.
 
SoonerAviator said:
My '07 GP GXP and '07 GMC 1500 both burn 2 qts every 5K miles on full synthetic. Doesn't matter what I run in them, it burns it willingly (both are LS-5.3L V8s) because of that god-awful Active Fuel Management system.
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My experience is that the 5.3L LS V8s just burn oil once they hit a certain point. My wife's '03 Avalanche that she used to have did similar. I changed the oil every 5k miles or so and it burned 1-2 quarts in that timeframe.

For how much everyone loves the LS engine, I honestly don't think it's all that fantastic. Good engine, sure, cheap and plentiful, but they have their issues.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
My experience is that the 5.3L LS V8s just burn oil once they hit a certain point. My wife's '03 Avalanche that she used to have did similar. I changed the oil every 5k miles or so and it burned 1-2 quarts in that timeframe.

For how much everyone loves the LS engine, I honestly don't think it's all that fantastic. Good engine, sure, cheap and plentiful, but they have their issues.
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I would have rather had the LS6 from the G8 GXP instead of the LS4/L59 that was in my vehicles. The LS3 didn't have AFM, and was a 6.2L instead of 5.3L. Piston slap is another common problem on the LS-motors, but seems to be random on which engines suffer from it. I like the LS-motors for their relative simplicity and ease of maintenance being a non-DOHC engine, but I think it's reached it's max potential as a SOHC engine. The Corvette DOHC 5.5L engine is probably the future for the LS-series blocks, but even it may be rare as electric powerplants are transitioned in.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I would have rather had the LS6 from the G8 GXP instead of the LS4/L59 that was in my vehicles. The LS3 didn't have AFM, and was a 6.2L instead of 5.3L. Piston slap is another common problem on the LS-motors, but seems to be random on which engines suffer from it. I like the LS-motors for their relative simplicity and ease of maintenance being a non-DOHC engine, but I think it's reached it's max potential as a SOHC engine. The Corvette DOHC 5.5L engine is probably the future for the LS-series blocks, but even it may be rare as electric powerplants are transitioned in.
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The lifter tick was another issue that the early 5.3s had.

If you got a good one, they were good, and they respond well to boost. But I agree that the engines have been taken about as far as they can be as far as a design goes.
 
Just another data point... Mobile 1 is slowly being outclassed... if you are using synthetic oil and liked Mobile 1...

 
Bill Jennings said:
Roll with the OLM, modern oils are very good and modern engines burn much cleaner, 8k should be no problem. We had one car that had a 13k oil change interval, and I ran the oil 13k every change. When we ditched the car at 170k it wasn't because of the engine. It was strong as a horse, didn't burn or leak oil, and still got original fuel mileage.

The engineers do a pretty good job of determining oil change interval, I've always read and followed TFM, and have never had an oil related issue.
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We do. My GMC had the 10k change interval. I bought the Dexos and GM filters at work, changed by one of my customers. Engine is still clean 8 years and 14 changes later. My wife babies the Jeep. She rides her Street Glide harder.
 
denverpilot said:
Just another data point... Mobile 1 is slowly being outclassed... if you are using synthetic oil and liked Mobile 1...
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That's an interesting comparison. That gives me some consideration for the next oil change on the GL550 (for which I use Mobil 1).
 
From what I've read, plain Mobile 1 is no longer a pure synthetic base stock but is a blended base stock that has the performance of a pure synthetic. If you step up to the M1 extended performance it is a pure synthetic base stock. The EP version is $2-3 more per 5qt jug at wally world, so I spend the couple of extra bucks. At some point, though, how good is good enough? There are plenty of spendy boutique oils out there that people swear by and drop big bucks on, but IMHO the M1 EP is good enough.
 
Sac Arrow said:
So what is the consensus about going 10,000 mile intervals on a late model Sentra using full synthetic? The manual specs 5,000, and an SH grade 0w20 oil. It does not specify synthetic, although an SH grade 0w20 is hard to find in a conventional form. It exists, probably because the manufacturer likely uses it as a break in oil.
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I would think that 10,000 miles would work, depending on those miles. if it's all short trips in traffic, you may want to stick with your 5K changes.

My daughter has a Jeep Patriot that doesn't cover much ground, and it gets a oil change with conventional oil every six months. If she did a lot of highway driving, then I'd suggest she extend it to every 7500 miles.

My Fusion goes 20,000 miles between (synthetic) oil changes, but it's a plug in hybrid and the engine runs on fewer than half the trips I take.
 
I own an auto repair shop. We fix late model Toyota hybrids.

I used to agree with most of the people on here about synthetic and then I bought a lightsport airplane and got my rotax factory certification.

We see all kinds of oil burning and sludge problems in late model cars. There are deposits performing even with synthetic oil. In Toyotas it seems to clog the oil drain back holes behind the oil control ring.

We have stopped recommending 10,000 mi oil changes, and we also use synthetic blend.

Why does rotax say that you can run synthetic oil and change it every 100 hours if you use car gas. However if you use 100LL you can't use synthetic and you have to change it every 50. I found this very interesting. Most modern synthetic oils cannot carry anything in suspension they just move it around the inside of the motor. No pure synthetic for me in anything anymore. How come a 1997 Toyota T100 pickup could go 400,000 mi on 3,000 mi dinosaur oil oil changes, and now we are seeing them burn oil at 150,000? It's not just Toyota either it's a super common problem with all new cars because this whole 10,000 mile oil change interval is just a load of garbage.

Just my .02
 
89 Jeep 4.0 Renix. 245K, most of it pulling a horse trailer. Oil and filter get changed every 5k, with farm store conventional 10/30. At 5k the oil just starts turning a nice light chocolate color. Doesn't burn a drop between changes.

Have done the rear main seal twice though. Last time I pulled a couple bearing caps just for a look see...nice dull gray overlay, no scratches or gouges. I think it's less the oil you use than how often you change it and the filter.
 
Ravioli said:
Speaking of car oil and oil changes...

For those of you who change your own AIRCRAFT oil, you cut the filter to check for metal, send off a sample for analysis, right?

Do you do that with the car as well?

[Note: I don't change the car or airplane oil myself]
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I send the oil from my diesel truck to Blackstone every 5k, run a bypass filter, and do full synthetic fluid and filter change every 5k. It's a 22K engine plus install so I"m maniacal about keeping up lubrication and filtration.
On car motors, I don't bother testing, I just change the oil with good quality synthetic at a reasonable interval. if they fail just drop a rebuild in for a couple grand.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
My experience is that the 5.3L LS V8s just burn oil once they hit a certain point. My wife's '03 Avalanche that she used to have did similar. I changed the oil every 5k miles or so and it burned 1-2 quarts in that timeframe.

For how much everyone loves the LS engine, I honestly don't think it's all that fantastic. Good engine, sure, cheap and plentiful, but they have their issues.
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same, I had a Tahoe with the 5.3 sold it at 130k miles. No trouble with it, but was always down a quart between changes and it wasn't leaking.
 
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MIFlyer said:
You're close... Look into Schaeffer (can get on Amazon, direct from Schaeffer, or through disti's) https://www.schaefferoil.com/
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Also interesting.

To be honest, for a long time my view on oil was "Just don't put in water." I have come to find that on certain engines they care and "better" oil is better, but as @Bill Jennings said at some point, good enough is good enough. Of course, what constitutes "good enough" will continue to increase as technology improves and engines continue to demand more from their oil.

But if the technology pushes further towards electric cars, this may become a moot point.

And then if you have an older tech engine, such as a flat tappet cam like what I'm putting in the Cobra, the modern oils without zinc are a problem and it's harder to run that suitably without cam wear.
 
I just use one of the three flavors approved for my pickup. Right now that's 'Total Quartz Ineo MC3', when I first went looking for dexos2 oil a couple years ago that was one of the few available. So I've kept using it even as Mobil has gotten their stuff approved. I change it when it goes 'ding' which looks to be about 8000 miles.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
That's an interesting comparison. That gives me some consideration for the next oil change on the GL550 (for which I use Mobil 1).
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I thought so too. Been a fan of M1 for a long time in any applications that didn’t call for something else, but looks like Shell wants to innovate and Mobile not.
 
Tbag said:
I own an auto repair shop. We fix late model Toyota hybrids.

I used to agree with most of the people on here about synthetic and then I bought a lightsport airplane and got my rotax factory certification.

We see all kinds of oil burning and sludge problems in late model cars. There are deposits performing even with synthetic oil. In Toyotas it seems to clog the oil drain back holes behind the oil control ring.

We have stopped recommending 10,000 mi oil changes, and we also use synthetic blend.

Why does rotax say that you can run synthetic oil and change it every 100 hours if you use car gas. However if you use 100LL you can't use synthetic and you have to change it every 50. I found this very interesting. Most modern synthetic oils cannot carry anything in suspension they just move it around the inside of the motor. No pure synthetic for me in anything anymore. How come a 1997 Toyota T100 pickup could go 400,000 mi on 3,000 mi dinosaur oil oil changes, and now we are seeing them burn oil at 150,000? It's not just Toyota either it's a super common problem with all new cars because this whole 10,000 mile oil change interval is just a load of garbage.

Just my .02
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Well, the T100 hasn't been made for over a decade, so the engine (V6-5VZ) isn't really the same as what Toyota has in their current lineups (other than being DOHC), so not exactly an apples-apples comparison. Just saying that I doubt there's a way to say switching to synthetic oil/extended change intervals has caused a widespread problem. There's this thing called an oil filter, and it should be collecting most of those contaminants instead of "carrying them in suspension". Oil serves the purpose of lubricating/protecting/cleaning internal components and controlling temperatures. It shouldn't be holding anything in suspension, the oil filter is for keeping that stuff out. The extended intervals are because synthetic stocks don't break down like conventional, so they don't lose their lubricating/protecting/cleaning properties as quickly and coke-up/turn to sludge. At some point, the oil filter still needs to be changed and synthetic will degrade, too. I doubt 10K miles on modern engines is inside that range, or OEMs wouldn't recommend it.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Also interesting.

To be honest, for a long time my view on oil was "Just don't put in water." I have come to find that on certain engines they care and "better" oil is better, but as @Bill Jennings said at some point, good enough is good enough. Of course, what constitutes "good enough" will continue to increase as technology improves and engines continue to demand more from their oil.

But if the technology pushes further towards electric cars, this may become a moot point.

And then if you have an older tech engine, such as a flat tappet cam like what I'm putting in the Cobra, the modern oils without zinc are a problem and it's harder to run that suitably without cam wear.
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on a flat tappet, what do you do, run an old diesel oil in them? CJ4?
 
MIFlyer said:
on a flat tappet, what do you do, run an old diesel oil in them? CJ4?
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Isky has a few oil recommendations. The most local one seems to be Castrol GTX with a zinc additive.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Isky has a few oil recommendations. The most local one seems to be Castrol GTX with a zinc additive.
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These guys have the following list https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c3-tech-performance/2484100-list-of-flat-tappet-oils.html I'd probably go look at Bob is the oil guy too.

Be aware, some discussion exists that HIGH ZDDP values can actually infiltrate the metal on the cam lobes and turn your Ford into a Lycoming with spalled camshaft. It looks like something in 1,000 PPM range is pretty good for offering good protection, but not having adverse side affects.
 
MIFlyer said:
These guys have the following list https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c3-tech-performance/2484100-list-of-flat-tappet-oils.html I'd probably go look at Bob is the oil guy too.

Be aware, some discussion exists that HIGH ZDDP values can actually infiltrate the metal on the cam lobes and turn your Ford into a Lycoming with spalled camshaft. It looks like something in 1,000 PPM range is pretty good for offering good protection, but not having adverse side affects.
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That's some interesting reading... I'll need to look into it more when it comes time.
 
MIFlyer said:
These guys have the following list https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c3-tech-performance/2484100-list-of-flat-tappet-oils.html I'd probably go look at Bob is the oil guy too.

Be aware, some discussion exists that HIGH ZDDP values can actually infiltrate the metal on the cam lobes and turn your Ford into a Lycoming with spalled camshaft. It looks like something in 1,000 PPM range is pretty good for offering good protection, but not having adverse side affects.
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I've always liked the Bob is the Oil Guy stuff, he's been around for a long while.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Isky has a few oil recommendations. The most local one seems to be Castrol GTX with a zinc additive.
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For what it's worth, I have been VERY disappointed in Castrol oils in every flavor I've tried in recent years. How much testing did Isky actually do before endorsing the product?
 
mondtster said:
For what it's worth, I have been VERY disappointed in Castrol oils in every flavor I've tried in recent years. How much testing did Isky actually do before endorsing the product?
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Their recommendations seem to be pretty old. That said, people have been complaining about Castrol oils for years, and I've used them in a lot of vehicles with good results (although admittedly none recently). What are your complaints?
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Their recommendations seem to be pretty old. That said, people have been complaining about Castrol oils for years, and I've used them in a lot of vehicles with good results (although admittedly none recently). What are your complaints?
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Every time I've used Castrol in recent years the oil seemed to shear out of grade quickly. Like a number of oils, Castrol used to be good and it earned a reputation but it has really disappointed me lately.

Based on personal experiences, my current recommendation for an engine based on an older design would be the non-synthetic VR1 if they make a grade that works for your application. If my fleet of european cars and the diesel truck didn't have such specific oil requirements I'd probably use it in them too.
 
FORANE said:
Literature says no.
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Thanks, I did go to the web site and it says not recommended for extended use in cat equipped vehicles. Which makes sense as high Zn and P loadings in oils kill cats.
 
mondtster said:
Every time I've used Castrol in recent years the oil seemed to shear out of grade quickly. Like a number of oils, Castrol used to be good and it earned a reputation but it has really disappointed me lately.

Based on personal experiences, my current recommendation for an engine based on an older design would be the non-synthetic VR1 if they make a grade that works for your application. If my fleet of european cars and the diesel truck didn't have such specific oil requirements I'd probably use it in them too.
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Interesting. Thanks for the information. VR1 was another referenced oil, and that might be the way to go.

I actually ran VR1 in the V12 Jaguar a long time ago, but that was when I didn't really understand oils. I think in that engine it was a negative not a positive, but while it was an old design, I don't think it benefitted from any of the additives in VR1 and the VR1 was mostly just too thick.

Bill Jennings said:
Is VR1 cat safe?
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Who cares? ;)
 
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