NA: ADA law

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Dave Taylor
Anyone familiar with the Am. Dis. Act? I have been reading this story and wondered what the law actually says.
The claim is that restaurants failed to provide Braille menus to patrons requiring them. I have a biz but not a restaurant. I think it would be difficult but possible for a restaurant; but if that were to apply to my biz I would be in trouble as we send out completely individualized instructions home for each person that comes in.
 
I have a copy of the ADAAG in my office. I'll have to look.

On that note. The local McD's has a sign behind the counter. "menus available for reading or vision impaired."

I've oft wondered how either could read this sign.
 
These people make a mockery of the ADA. They specialize in filing law suits for their own gain anytime they can find some failure of access in a public accomodation no matter how small.

Back when we were developing image analysis software for the government the contract required us to provide our manuals in Braille format. I inquired to our contracting officer at the NIH as to how many Braille manuals he envisioned needing.

By the way the ADA doesn't necessarily spell out the exact form of reasonable accommodation. Having someone read out the menu to the blind patron would seem to qualify.
 
My understanding (from involvement in one ADA suit) is that if you comply, the suit will be dismissed (the goal of the law is to have compliance). They pick targets carefully, must have enough/difficult violations to make it hard to correct, but deep enough pockets to pay the plaintiffs attorney fees. That is correct, defendant pays the legal bills of the plaintiff. In the case I was involved in, we made the entire restaurant comply and told them to pound sand.

One plaintiff filed 4 suits at the same time. She was a qualified person under the act, but the violations would not apply to her.

Sometimes the act is too much, however if you have ever been around a person with a true disability, you understand why it exists.
 
Topper said:
My understanding (from involvement in one ADA suit) is that if you comply, the suit will be dismissed (the goal of the law is to have compliance). They pick targets carefully, must have enough/difficult violations to make it hard to correct, but deep enough pockets to pay the plaintiffs attorney fees. That is correct, defendant pays the legal bills of the plaintiff. In the case I was involved in, we made the entire restaurant comply and told them to pound sand.

One plaintiff filed 4 suits at the same time. She was a qualified person under the act, but the violations would not apply to her.

Sometimes the act is too much, however if you have ever been around a person with a true disability, you understand why it exists.
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You're close. Except in a very egregious or high-profile situation, virtually all ADA suits are brought by individuals, not the government, and the principal purpose of most such suits is to shake-down for cash settlements and attorneys' fees.

You'll see the same "plaintiff" (usually either a scamster, or a conveniently-disabled person, depending upon the suit's target) in many, many suits.
 
SCCutler said:
You're close. Except in a very egregious or high-profile situation, virtually all ADA suits are brought by individuals, not the government, and the principal purpose of most such suits is to shake-down for cash settlements and attorneys' fees.

You'll see the same "plaintiff" (usually either a scamster, or a conveniently-disabled person, depending upon the suit's target) in many, many suits.
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The union of do-gooder nannystatism and scumbag lawyers.
 
Up until three years ago, when I retired for the last time, I supervised the lifeguards for the city's Parks and Rec aquatics facilities. We had to deal with ADA all the time, and not just access to the pools themselves, but to all areas of the facilities. The accommodations were not that hard to comply with. It was basically that we had to make our facilities "reasonably" accessible to persons with disabilities. Not accessible beyond reason. We never had a problem with it. But then, no one targeted us either. I mean, I'm sure if someone wanted to make a stink, they could. I learned a long time ago, the hard way, a person doesn't really have to have much at stake to file a law suit.
 
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Topper said:
My understanding (from involvement in one ADA suit) is that if you comply, the suit will be dismissed (the goal of the law is to have compliance). They pick targets carefully, must have enough/difficult violations to make it hard to correct, but deep enough pockets to pay the plaintiffs attorney fees. That is correct, defendant pays the legal bills of the plaintiff. In the case I was involved in, we made the entire restaurant comply and told them to pound sand.

One plaintiff filed 4 suits at the same time. She was a qualified person under the act, but the violations would not apply to her.

Sometimes the act is too much, however if you have ever been around a person with a true disability, you understand why it exists.
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and that's probably why it exists--to make sure reasonable accomodations are available for those with disabilities. Unfortunately you get the 0.1% that seem to thrive on picking fights and going out of their way to find a problem.
 
rbridges said:
and that's probably why it exists--to make sure reasonable accomodations are available for those with disabilities. Unfortunately you get the 0.1% that seem to thrive on picking fights and going out of their way to find a problem.
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:yeahthat:
 
rbridges said:
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and that's probably why it exists--to make sure reasonable accomodations are available for those with disabilities. Unfortunately you get the 0.1% that seem to thrive on picking fights and going out of their way to find a problem.
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Surprised Jay hasn't piped up yet. He installed a human lift for his hotel pool at great expense that pretty much nobody ever uses, in response to one of these abusive lawsuits.

I seriously doubt his experience is the 0.1%. Happens way more often than that. I think you underestimate the money involved and available for nothing more than a broke lawyer pushing paperwork. Especially that rule that the defendant pays.

I bet some drunk idiot hurts themselves on Jay's useless mandatory contraption someday too.
 
The vitriol on the local newspaper forum about handicapped parking is :hairraise:.

Its funny because there are places I go where the handicapped parking is further from the door than regular parking or the "takeout" spots. I can walk, but not far. So I'll park in the takeout spot to avoid needing my wheelchair. Crutches suck too with one hand.

I avoid shopping for anything if there's snow and icy crap between the store's door and handicapped parking. Its not worth the damage to my skin grafts.
 
bnt83 said:
Its funny because there are places I go where the handicapped parking is further from the door than regular parking or the "takeout" spots. I can walk, but not far. So I'll park in the takeout spot to avoid needing my wheelchair. Crutches suck too with one hand.
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I noticed that about handicapped parking too, when I had to push someone around in a wheelchair. Then I realized the reason is that the handicapped spaces are generally closer to the curb cutouts.
 
Seven years ago I built a modest office building about 400K and ADA compliance added another 22 K to the cost and decreased user friendliness ...the kitchen sink has to have the ability to roll up a wheel chair among other things...bathroom and other things cause issues... and in that time I have had one wheel chair bound person in my office and they were looking for directions. ADA is a painful for any small business...
 
bnt83 said:
Its funny because there are places I go where the handicapped parking is further from the door than regular parking or the "takeout" spots.
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I'm confident that is not legal. IIRC the ADA clearly states the the handicapped parking has to be the closest parking to the MAIN entrance.

EDIT: I just checked and that's pretty much the wording. If numerous entrances then the entrance that's nearest the elevator if a multi-floor building.
 
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rbridges said:
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and that's probably why it exists--to make sure reasonable accomodations are available for those with disabilities. Unfortunately you get the 0.1% that seem to thrive on picking fights and going out of their way to find a problem.
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And separate doesn't mean equal to them either. Has to be the same door.

I had to interview a hearing impaired person for a telephone receptionist position. Would have had to hire someone to listen for her. This was way before ttd devices.
 
bnt83 said:
I avoid shopping for anything if there's snow and icy crap between the store's door and handicapped parking. Its not worth the damage to my skin grafts.
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The irony of your slipping and falling in a parking lot is that the owner is responsible in a lot of cases. I have to carry insurance for my practice just in case someone forgets how to deal with gravity on my property. :rolleyes2:
 
rbridges said:
The irony of your slipping and falling in a parking lot is that the owner is responsible in a lot of cases. I have to carry insurance for my practice just in case someone forgets how to deal with gravity on my property. :rolleyes2:
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Sad world we live in. My mom stepped in a hole of a grassy area at a local hospital's parking lot and broke the end of her tibia (or fibula?)OFF requiring ambulance, surgery, screws the whole process. She's a farmer, walked many pastures and found many holes, but that day she wasn't paying attention. No lawyers involved and chalked it up to just being dumb while walking the dog. (She is a natural blonde :lol:)

Unlike a like a local gal that jogs on city sidewalks, same path as always then tripped at a crack and messed her face up good. She sued the city and lost.

For me its an endurance problem. Skin grafts on my feet can only put up with so much abuse per day. I have good days and bad. A good day, most might not even notice from my walk that I'm a double bilateral foot amputee. On a bad day its a struggle to get in & out of the shower, shoes on and to work.
 
Warlock said:
Seven years ago I built a modest office building about 400K and ADA compliance added another 22 K to the cost and decreased user friendliness ...the kitchen sink has to have the ability to roll up a wheel chair among other things...bathroom and other things cause issues... and in that time I have had one wheel chair bound person in my office and they were looking for directions. ADA is a painful for any small business...
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When I remodeled the dealership, we changed the restrooms and made them wheelchair accessible, not a huge deal for us. But, I had to make my private bathroom handicap adaptable! So, I have reinforced areas behind the drywall to add bars and a large area that is wasted to accommodate a wheelchair. :dunno:
 
N747JB said:
When I remodeled the dealership, we changed the restrooms and made them wheelchair accessible, not a huge deal for us. But, I had to make my private bathroom handicap adaptable! So, I have reinforced areas behind the drywall to add bars and a large area that is wasted to accommodate a wheelchair. :dunno:
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not really wasted... one can have an appreciation of the space if you ever help someone use the bathroom when that person is mostly confined to a wheelchair

(please don't misunderstand, bureaucrat morons enforcing misintepretations of building code are a drain on any company's resources)
 
N747JB said:
When I remodeled the dealership, we changed the restrooms and made them wheelchair accessible, not a huge deal for us. But, I had to make my private bathroom handicap adaptable! So, I have reinforced areas behind the drywall to add bars and a large area that is wasted to accommodate a wheelchair. :dunno:
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Nah, like the rest of us, you're getting older. It won't be long now. :D
 
Pretty much any new house or structure has wider doors, halls etc built into the plans. Building accessible cost little to no additional money. Renovating older buildings can be cost prohibitive. I've been to several OLD churches that tried did ok but not ideal at all. If it works for them that's all that matters.

(Side track) When I was house shopping the realtor showing us a house mentioned that her husband was diagnosed with has Cerebral palsy several years ago and they were in a position to build a new house so they built the entire first floor with ADA compliance in mind (not total ADA). They have two bathrooms on the main floor, one is designed for RH side of the body paralysis and the other is for LH side. She said when she is ready to sell the house will likely never make it the MLS because these homes sell themselves via word of mouth.


Even a 30 year old in his prime can easily be committed to a wheelchair temporarily or permanently. All it takes is an auto accident or a mosquito bite. Ticks are dangerous too.

My dad lives in crappy house, with lots of stairs and hate staying there.
 
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I once interviewed a blind Ph.D. for the position of airport ticket/gate agent. He was eminently (over-)qualified for the $7.50/hr job, but the percentage of the work he could perform was very small regardless of whatever reasonable accommodation we could make. After consulting with HR we were able to offer him employment as a reservations agent; we even had computer terminals and telephones specifically configured for blind agents. But since it would have meant moving his home to a different city he declined.
 
Friend of mine was a senior pilot for US Air when he got rear ended by a semi and put in a wheelchair. We used his dining room table to unroll the plans for our house. At that point the architect said he knew why we made much of our house accessible (no front steps, elevator, large bathrooms).
 
I can't think of anything more terrifying than going blind. Life can take both hands and feet but please don't ever take my vision. A friend of mind who has more medication allergies than anyone I know his enduring optic neuritis. She seems to be stable after losing much of her vision and mobility treated with high doses of prednisone for sudden attacks and chemotherapy for baseline treatment. She is still battling insurance & lawyers get long term disability claim paid despite full support of her doctors. Judging from reviews of Liberty its not going to be easy.
 
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ejensen said:
At least to the point you're totally is a different world. Then it's harder on loved ones as they see you fade.
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Don't be thinking of gross Hollywood portrayal of Alzheimer's patients (some old person sitting in the corner giggling). The person is still there and only in the very advanced stage might the person be completely unaware and basically be unconscious.
 
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Bob Noel said:
Don't be thinking of gross Hollywood portrayal of Alzheimer's patients (some old person sitting in the corner giggling). The person is still there and only in the very advanced stage might the person be completely unaware and basically be unconscious.
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I'm speaking from real life experiences. They all progress differently. But there is a time when one might know the cat but not his wife. I've never heard anybody giggle.
 
ejensen said:
I'm speaking from real life experiences. They all progress differently. But there is a time when one might know the cat but not his wife. I've never heard anybody giggle.
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I'm also speaking from real life experiences. Yes, I know they all progress differently. But one thing in common, the person is still there.

The "giggling" reference was wrt Hollywood portrayal.
 
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