N/A How many children are enough?

rtk11 said:
I have one child - my son is 11 years old now. The most miraculous event in my life, and I love him to my core. We didn’t have more because of finances. In hindsight, I should have had at least one more...maybe more. My child has been such an amazing joy (and no, it wasn’t easy) but I feel badly that he will be alone when my wife and I pass. I have a brother and sister, and my son has cousins that he’s close to. But not the same as having a sibling to do things with, build life experiences together, and a life-long person you can trust to talk through things with.

Diving into the financial aspect of things, watch “The Family Man” with Tea Leoni and Nicholas Cage. This resonated A LOT with me. Prior to marriage, I worked (then) in Management Consulting, had a string of sports cars including two Italians, one British, and lots of Mustangs and Audis (not necessarily at the same time). And I travelled and ate at nice restaurants. After a child, my wife got a SUV, I got an Altima, all the other cars went away, and I took a job that didn’t require travel. Now we’re stabilized into a nice SUV for the wife, a practical BMW 328d for me, and a light sport aircraft. It took time to get here... but I wouldn’t change a thing.
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You and jmp470 are bumming me out! My daughter is barely a week old but I’m keeping the plane and the sports cars! Although in fairness, I did already trade in one of the sports cars for a sporty SUV. But that's it!
 
Eric Gleason said:
Challenged, I'm curious to know what you're thinking now after reading everyone else's threads. Did you talk this over with your wife before you were married and had your first child? Does your wife know that you feel like you made a sacrifice to have the first one?
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We discussed this the other night and we actually read through some of the posts on here together, so thanks again to everyone who provided their input, it's actually very helpful. There's just no easy answer unfortunately, but she did say that the most important thing is the happiness of our family (meaning the three of us currently and that my personal fulfillment was a big part of that happiness), so she does generally seem okay with the current situation, although I guess it's probably not her ideal scenario either. My own ideal scenario includes a faster airplane, but at the end of the day marriage is all about compromise, which I joke with her means that neither party is ever truly happy ;)
 
I refrained from saying something about marriage and compromise, figuring that you already knew that. What isn't apparent from your initial post is whether your wife realized what a big compromise you felt you'd made already, and if there were similar compromises coming from her. If you can talk about it, you can probably work through it without too much trouble.

My quick fatherhood story: 5 years ago I was 38 and started dating a girl I liked a lot. When trying to feel out if there were a potential future, I told her that I thought I would be happy with or without having kids. That turned out to be the stupidest thing I've ever said (and I've said some whoppers). Fatherhood is both fun and fulfilling for me, even when it's exhausting. I can't imagine finding this kind of joy any other way.

My relationship with his mother fell apart in a few months, right before we found out she was pregnant. We tried to make it work, but that fell apart quickly. I fought hard for equal custody and was able to get it starting on his 1st birthday. There's a lot to be said for only having to parent 50% of the time! In that other 50% I found time to start a business and find my fiancee, who is more indulgent and supportive than I deserve. The down side of all this great progress in my personal life is that there was no time or money for flying for 2 1/2 years. Now that my business is generating some spending cash, my fiancee is encouraging me to carve out some time for flying again, so I'm getting back up to speed as the weather allows.

My son will be 4 at the end of March, loves airplanes, and I'm looking forward to taking him for his first ride soon. His mother and I make a good parenting team, finding ourselves on the same page as much as parents who are together. It's actually easier without the personal relationship to deal with.
 
It's interesting reading some of the responses.

Specifically regarding the part about the baby phase sucking, yes it can be brutal and drains you during the time, but I am so glad that I spent as much time at home as I could while the babies were little.

One thing I note is that most people end up happy with how things worked out, even if it wasn't what they planned. Also, I think everyone with one kid wonders if they should have more kids or not, and thinks that there's no way they could handle the extra work. Yet most people have additional kids, and end up glad of it. If we'd had no kids, then I can say with certainty that our life would be much different and we'd be doing a lot more things together like we did pre-kids - things we do miss doing. I can also say that if we'd only had the one, we would probably take more vacations with our (smaller) family, and probably be able to do more things together. Cloud Nine trips could actually potentially be family trips rather than something I do solo. There are a lot of things I do wish I could do that would've been enabled by either not having kids or having fewer kids. I also don't think we would've missed it if we didn't have kids, it would've just been our reality. But we went in it more with the idea of "Just see whether a kid happens or not", and weren't going to do any interventions to force it.

But then I come home from work and the kids all run up and give me big hugs saying "Daddy!!!", take my kids to the airport, etc., it's all worth the personal sacrifices.

One thing I will tell new couples, though, is to wait a while before having kids - don't just jump into it immediately. Spend time together doing fun things and just enjoying eachother for a few years first. Once kids come, the life change isn't reversible. In our case we started trying a bit sooner than we probably normally would have due to age, but we also both got plenty of years to live our lives and do a lot of things we wanted to do - things I think that get much harder to do as you get older. So, we're happy we went the path we did.

I can't wait to start taking my kids on Cloud Nine flights. They've been asking, and the MU-2 will actually make that more doable since the trips will be a lot faster.
 
Eric Gleason said:
I refrained from saying something about marriage and compromise, figuring that you already knew that. What isn't apparent from your initial post is whether your wife realized what a big compromise you felt you'd made already, and if there were similar compromises coming from her. If you can talk about it, you can probably work through it without too much trouble.

My quick fatherhood story: 5 years ago I was 38 and started dating a girl I liked a lot. When trying to feel out if there were a potential future, I told her that I thought I would be happy with or without having kids. That turned out to be the stupidest thing I've ever said (and I've said some whoppers). Fatherhood is both fun and fulfilling for me, even when it's exhausting. I can't imagine finding this kind of joy any other way.

My relationship with his mother fell apart in a few months, right before we found out she was pregnant. We tried to make it work, but that fell apart quickly. I fought hard for equal custody and was able to get it starting on his 1st birthday. There's a lot to be said for only having to parent 50% of the time! In that other 50% I found time to start a business and find my fiancee, who is more indulgent and supportive than I deserve. The down side of all this great progress in my personal life is that there was no time or money for flying for 2 1/2 years. Now that my business is generating some spending cash, my fiancee is encouraging me to carve out some time for flying again, so I'm getting back up to speed as the weather allows.

My son will be 4 at the end of March, loves airplanes, and I'm looking forward to taking him for his first ride soon. His mother and I make a good parenting team, finding ourselves on the same page as much as parents who are together. It's actually easier without the personal relationship to deal with.
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I'm in a similar boat to this.. Ex and I separated when our son was 13 months old, reconciled, and called it quits for good right before his second birthday.. Fought hard for full custody,got joint.. He's almost 4 now, and she conceded over the weekend that I am able to give him a better education, and more stable home life than she is, so when he starts school, he'll be living with me.
 
I didn't read the four pages of response here, sorry.

Simple opinion from me:

When you marry, you should both agree on a few things. Whether or not to have children is one of the most important ones. You failed here.

You also need to agree on how to prioritize your assets of time and money. Again, it seems you two fail here, as well.

You've married wrong, and now you're stuck. It'll be interesting how your life goes from here.

Do you cut your losses, divorce, and spend the next decade++ picking up the pieces of your life to try and once again find happiness?
Do you stay in your bad relationship and turn into someone that you never thought you'd be?
Include bitter and resentful in the above.

Good luck.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
An old farmer friend of mine said "you ought to replace yourselves".
I couldn't poke any holes in his idea; any less and the population shrinks; any more and it grows.
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Else, why bother "replacing yourselves"? I don't get the concept.
Isn't it okay if the population shrinks just a little?
My DNA isn't that special, neither is my wife's.
If you're a farmer, you need the farm hands.
I know people that have five or more.
Does it matter if WE have children?
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
I know one thing....I won't die a lonely man....I will be surrounded by a wonderful bunch of quarreling-but-loving kids. :D

plus...the world needs (4) more conservative right wingers.
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Too many right wingers without enough left wingers to counteract their forces = barrel roll spin crash. You need both wings to fly straight. ;)

No kids, wife and I felt the same way about it when we met. 100% happy.
 
Thanks Rbgeard, I just emailed my wife to let her know that neither of us are happy, as she may not have been aware.
 
Lachlan said:
Too many right wingers without enough left wingers to counteract their forces = barrel roll spin crash. You need both wings to fly straight. ;)

No kids, wife and I felt the same way about it when we met. 100% happy.
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ya but....spinning is fun. :D
 
Rgbeard said:
I didn't read the four pages of response here, sorry.

Simple opinion from me:

When you marry, you should both agree on a few things. Whether or not to have children is one of the most important ones. You failed here.

You also need to agree on how to prioritize your assets of time and money. Again, it seems you two fail here, as well.

You've married wrong, and now you're stuck. It'll be interesting how your life goes from here.

Do you cut your losses, divorce, and spend the next decade++ picking up the pieces of your life to try and once again find happiness?
Do you stay in your bad relationship and turn into someone that you never thought you'd be?
Include bitter and resentful in the above.

Good luck.
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Wow. Simply wow.
 
Rgbeard said:
My DNA isn't that special, neither is my wife's.
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Mine is, and so is my wife's.
Rgbeard said:
Does it matter if WE have children?
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It did to me. It's great that we all get to make our own decisions about things like this.
Rgbeard said:
Do you cut your losses, divorce, and spend the next decade++ picking up the pieces of your life to try and once again find happiness?
Do you stay in your bad relationship and turn into someone that you never thought you'd be?
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Or do you maybe just go with things not always working out the way you planned, and finding a compromise you can both live with, like married couples have been doing since time began? Sheesh.
 
There’s an old saying that sums up life: “You can get used to nearly anything.” Live it, love it, accept it, or make it into what you want. Life is not long enough to create future regrets, so plan accordingly or re-read the previous sentence and think about it fir a while until it all makes sense. Otherwise, this is America and psychiatrists run it. Go pick up your bottle of feel-goods and start eating. Or, re-read this post and think about it some more. Choose wisely.
 
I have two, one 16 years old, one 16 weeks old. The second one was a huge surprise to both of us and has really screwed up some plans we had been working toward for many years. Plans we were right on the cusp of realizing. The little one is a lot of fun and I do love playing with her and reliving some of the fun of little kids; she's a good baby, she sleeps well, she's smart and beautiful and I miss her like crazy when she's not around. I don't resent her or regret her, but the wife and I both agree that we would be more careful if we had it to do over.

As for only children, every modern study shows they are better off developmentally and socially; they grow up to be better educated, more altruistic, and generally contribute more than they take from society. Contrary to some of the other posters, I never wanted a sibling and my sister lived up to every concern I had. My life was absolutely perfect before she came along and although she is a lovely woman, she has never once enriched my existence. I sense some of that angst in my son too. No one can give you the answer, but it sounds like you already know. If you have doubts, don't do it.
 
4 children are more than enough, but I wouldnt give any of them back and would be devastated to lose any of them. One is in her third year of teaching 10th grade English, got married last fall, and is expecting my first grandchild the end of July. One does graphic art for a nationally prominent advertising firm, and is engaged to be married. Two are still in college.
 
PaulS said:
That's interesting logic, if we don't end ourselves, we will end ourselves.
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Mankind
PaulS said:
That's interesting logic, if we don't end ourselves, we will end ourselves.
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This my post you are referring to? Always hard to fine the right words.

The world has had enough population. It will be our end if we don't work hard at controlling pop
How about -- The world has enough people. It will be humankind's end if we continue to grow like we have.
 
There is no right answer that anyone can provide for you. You're life is different from every other life. Your situation is different from every other one. What works for one person is absolutely the wrong thing for another. This one you gotta own and figure out by yourself.

The only advice I'd provide if to ask you to really REALLY think about what matters to you...now...right NOW. You can think about The Future(tm) but that is one big ol' black hole that you can't predict. NOW is the only thing you can know. And don't kid yourself by trying to put in the 'right' things that 'should' be important. Be honest with yourself and then be honest with your wife no matter what the answer is.

Whatever decision you make there will be unknown consequences both good and bad. When you decide, move on and don't look back or you'll drive yourself absolutely nuts.

Good luck.
 
gasfiltered said:
I have two, one 16 years old, one 16 weeks old. The second one was a huge surprise to both of us and has really screwed up some plans we had been working toward for many years. Plans we were right on the cusp of realizing. The little one is a lot of fun and I do love playing with her and reliving some of the fun of little kids; she's a good baby, she sleeps well, she's smart and beautiful and I miss her like crazy when she's not around. I don't resent her or regret her, but the wife and I both agree that we would be more careful if we had it to do over.
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I generally think that's the worst of all conditions when you have two that far apart. Like you said, it resets the clock on that phase of life - the phase where you have small kids and all the restrictions that go with that - including making it harder to spend as much time with your 16 year old doing the things that you can finally do with him. I've generally felt the problem with multiple kids is that it makes it harder for you as a parent to do as much with them as you'd like. No doubt, if we'd stopped with one my wife and I would probably be able to maintain a closer relationship with him than we have.

We decided that after the girls one of us was going to get the STC to make sure we were done. Not that it's exactly a fun experience to go through, but definitely am glad to not be worried about #4 coming along.
 
To those of you who (hopefully by mutual agreement between you and your wife) decided to raise a family I would say you did what you wanted to do and provided the next generation who, hopefully, will save the world from destruction. Some of your kids will be raised in a large family while others will be only children

. While it was my choice not to pass on my genes I find children from larger families to be better adjusted adults. They were not spoiled as children, had to learn to get along with their siblings, learned to share, and in general turned out better.

First wife was an only and after the wedding she and I got along about as well as two snakes in a hiss pit.
 
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