My student got lost...

[jesse]

Yesterday I went up with a student of mine to do a "mock checkride".


I had a few goals with this flight, some I told him, some I didn't:
1.) I wanted to see him do a simulated engine failure to an airport
2.) I wanted to see him handle a big crosswind
3.) I wanted to do some hood work and unusual attitudes
4.) I wanted to get him lost and see him reaction in a stressful situation

I asked him to plan a cross country from Lincoln, NE to O'Neil, NE. The primary reason I chose O'Neil is because I knew we'd pass directly over the top of David City, NE.

I reviewed his plan and it looked pretty good. We took off from Lincoln and were soon underway. It wasn't long before we were directly over the top of David City. I took a look down at the windsock and it was pointing straight out at a direct 90 degree crosswind, I knew it was going to get a little exciting.

I waited for my student to take his hand off the throttle, which I knew he'd do, when he reset his stop watch at the checkpoint (which was the airport). The moment his hand came off the throttle I pulled it to idle and said "engine failure". We were about 3,300 AGL.

He's had some issues lately at sorting out priorities during an engine failure but this time he did pretty good. It didn't take long before he had us at best glide, chose the airport as his point of landing, and had completed all the necessary checklists. He then started to maneuver as needed and was making the appropriate radio calls. The wind was gusting to about a 18 knot crosswind. It was a lot for him at 35 hours total time but he pulled it off.

I wasn't entirely happy with his crosswind technique so we went back up and banged around the pattern for another four or five times until he really had it down. I was happy to see that at touchdown he had full aileron in.

We departed David City and I told him my airplane and handed him a hood. While he was messing around with the hood I spun his DG 90 degrees off heading. I asked him to fly a southeast heading and told him some crap about me wanting to see my friends farm in that direction. I had him do quite a bit of heading changes, unusual attitudes, and other various tasks. Finally after about 30 minutes under the hood I asked him to descend to 800 AGL, failed the 430, and told him to remove the hood.

Once he got the hood removed I asked him to fly me to Seward, NE. He looked around for a bit and suddenly realized he had no idea where we were. It didnt' help that we were so low . He finally decided that we were flying a southeast heading most of the time so based on that, our approximate groundspeed, and the amount of time he THINKS he might have went that direction he came up with an answer as to where we were. He was off by about 30 or 40 miles. I told him what he said seemed reasonable to me.

He chose a heading that he thought would take us to Seward and after a bit we came upon a city with an airport to the south of it. He looked to his sectional and looked rather confused because it most definitely wasn't Seward. He still hadn't figured out his DG was 90 degrees off so it looked as if the airport were to the east of the city. He decided that it was Crete, NE (it wasn't..it was Utica, NE). I helped him out a touch at this point by saying: "kind of odd that it has a east west runway and the chart says north south, huh". (In reality it was a north south runway but his DG wasn't right and I wasn't going to tell him that).

For some reason he was still convinced it was Crete, NE. He was also convinced that he was west of the field flying eastbound (we were actually north flying southbound). So he decided to hang a left hand turn on course to Seward.

After a bit we came across a small town without an airport and he couldn't figure out what it'd be based on where he thought were were on his sectional. He mentioned to me that he remembers me telling him something about navigating by reading water towers. So he found the water tower, circled, and eventually read "Gressham, NE" on the side. *Finally* he was happy to know where we were. He found Gressham on his sectional and was rather confused as to why we were there..but we were..so he plotted a heading to the southeast to get us to Seward and turned on course.

We cruised on for awhile until we were approaching a larger than Seward looking city. He couldn't figure out what city it was and was super confused at that point. He still hadn't given up and had a good attitude about it. He flew around the city until he found the water tower and realized he was at York, NE.

Suddenly a lightbulb just clicked in his head. He knew damn well he was at Gressham, NE earlier and he knew he flew southeast but he ended up at York. He suddenly realized his DG was set wrong and figured out I knew where we were the entire time and that I had messed it up. He fixed the DG, plotted a CORRECT heading, and we headed towards Seward. We were no longer lost.

I've told my students that at some point later in their training I *will* make an effort to get them lost. I'll also expect them to figure out how to get back. I'll also admit my plan this entire flight was to get him lost. I just didn't think I'd be able to get him lost for a hour

After the flight we debriefed and discussed everything that happened, what went wrong, and what we could have done differently.

It's always interesting to hear what a student thinks:

1.) He should have climbed when he was lost. We've discussed that before and had he climbed at that point and simply looked around he would have saw some easy to spot landmarks and known where we were. He said he remembers talking about it in the past but it just didn't dawn on him. He also considered it possible that I had him go so low to stay under the Lincoln class C and thought climbing might have busted their airspace.

2.) He is actually pretty damn good with a VOR and could have used that to find his fix within 30 seconds or so. For some reason he was thinking that the Nav 2 VOR was dead since the 430 was dead. He knew the systems -- but just let the situation distract him from thinking and trying things

3.) Why he flew for a hour lost without ever checking his DG against his compass we'll both never know. I bet he won't ever make that mistake again.

4.) He knew he could have likely had Lincoln Approach or Minneapolis Center find him with his transponder but elected not to do that because he wanted to figure it out without them during training.

Another day in the life of a part-time flight instructor

 

[Anthony]

Good job Jesse. You let your student make the mistakes so they get burned into his brain. My instructor did the same thing.

Why he didn't just push the D button on his handheld GPS is beyond me.

 

[AdamZ]

I was wondering why he didn't go for a VOR. Not only would he have gotten a fix but he'd soon figure out that his DG was caddy wampus as well. Hard to track the 070 Radial on a heading of 235

I'm sure he won't make those mistakes again. Good work.

 

[steingar]

Never needed a CFI to get lost in an airplane myself...

 

[SkyHog]

Its a lesson I could have used as a student, rather than having to learn it myself the hard way.

 

[Irish_Armada]

You twisted CFI's! Valuable lesson though for sure.

Man, a no power landing with 18 knots of cross wind sounds gnarly to me. Glad he handled it, don't know that I could have. I don't think the C172s I train in are demonstrated in anything beyond 15 knots direct cross wind anyways.

 

[Threefingeredjack]

You sound like a total SOB of an instructor. Nice work. By making them think under duress you are giving them the skills they need.

 

[zaitcev]

I don't understand one thing: if you fly along, realize that you're lost, and you see an airport (Utica in this case), then why don't you land and get your bearings? The one time I got lost, it was not an option. But I would totally land if I saw an airport back then. Eventually I landed with 7 gallons left (according to the tank probe stick).

I suppose if an applicant says "I'm going to land here and find out where we are" with DPE onboard, it's a failure. But in the real life, it's a way better outcome than running around until you run out of gas, IMHO.

As for water towers, I read about that trick many times, but never succeeded at reading them myself. It would probably require busting legal minimum altitudes over populated areas. This is the first time I see a testimonial by someone who did it successfully (and not in 1936).

 

[jesse]

I don't understand one thing: if you fly along, realize that you're lost, and you see an airport (Utica in this case), then why don't you land and get your bearings? The one time I got lost, it was not an option. But I would totally land if I saw an airport back then. Eventually I landed with 7 gallons left (according to the tank probe stick).

I suppose if an applicant says "I'm going to land here and find out where we are" with DPE onboard, it's a failure. But in the real life, it's a way better outcome than running around until you run out of gas, IMHO.

As for water towers, I read about that trick many times, but never succeeded at reading them myself. It would probably require busting legal minimum altitudes over populated areas. This is the first time I see a testimonial by someone who did it successfully (and not in 1936).

It's pretty simple to do over the small cities we have here. You descend over the rural area outside of the city. It's much more difficult to do over a super large city.

 

[dell30rb]

I might have suggested he use the VOR after a bit, if he's still lost after that, he's on his own.

I would have liked to see him use the VOR to find out where his position was - its easier to use if you know exactly where you are and where you are going, much more difficult if you're lost, and you have to put some thought into the to/from flag, interpret your bearing to the station and look that up on a sectional.

Yeah, i bet he won't forget the DG though. My club had a bunch of 152's that were flying all the time. For my checkride I grabbed the one with the bad DG, just precessed a lot. I caught it just in time to not fail the checkride on my 'cross country'. Live and learn

 

[Mafoo]

Just an FYI, if that was me, I would have pulled my iPad out of my bag. If that failed me, I would have pulled my iPhone out.

Would you have failed all three?

I know I would have climbed. Not sure how long it would have taken me to realize my DG was off.

Also, odd he didn't use the sun at all as a reference. That would have told me rather quickly I was going the wrong way.

I would have also looked on the sectional, and tuned my radio, and asked for a mic check.

 

[SCCutler]

My instructor was mean like that; I thank him for it regularly. Come to think of it, Jesse has done a thing or two like that to me as well (hint: always check your frequencies...). As for duress, a cackling, smart-aleck airline pilot in the back seat makes it more fun, for sure.

---

Interesting thoughts: I noticed, when flying in California, that they tend to paint the name of the airport in BIG LETTERS on the runway - nice touch.

Around here, you have a better chance at reading the town by looking at the end zone of the local high school football field.

 

[jesse]

Just an FYI, if that was me, I would have pulled my iPad out of my bag. If that failed me, I would have pulled my iPhone out.

Would you have failed all three?

Yes. The whole GPS constellation was just knocked off-line by some silly software bug a government programmer made. The PTS does require one can navigate without a GPS. This isn't a real emergency, it's a skill building exercise.

Also, odd he didn't use the sun at all as a reference. That would have told me rather quickly I was going the wrong way.

This was mid-day-ish. The sun was no use at all. It was "up" and out of sight.

 

[Mafoo]

Yes. The whole GPS constellation was just knocked off-line by some silly software bug a government programmer made. The PTS does require one can navigate without a GPS. This isn't a real emergency, it's a skill building exercise.

Then I would have found the closest strip of runway, and landed. I DO NOT want to be in the air when GPS goes out.

Not sure the point of the exercise. Is it to build skills you will never use, or to make sure your student knows what to do with things go wrong?

 

[denverpilot]

Heh. Sounds like many instructors in my logbook (including Jesse). I will say that Jesse is very good at dead panning stuff like the "crap about seeing a friend's farm".

He plays a good game of cockpit poker.

(Some instructors can't pull off those little white lies to set up the trap very well at all.)

The only hint you ever had with Jesse setting you up for a new lesson to be learned was when things were just a little TOO peachy-keen. Ahh, this is going sooo well...

Famous last words. And all important lessons.

 

[zaitcev]

Would you have failed all three?

Around here we have zones with no reliable GPS receiption due to navigation jammers that USAF test. What's more insiduous, they also jam competing navigation systems such as GLONASS and Beidou, so a multi-band navigation receiver isn't going to help you here.

BTW, I often use Sun for navigation. In NM overcast is very rare, so you can tell cardinal directions easily if you know the time of day. The trick is to look at shadows.

 

[Mafoo]

I think it was a cool setup. Just not sure why the "you can't do any of the things you will really end up doing" part.

 

[jesse]

I think it was a cool setup. Just not sure why the "you can't do any of the things you will really end up doing" part.

If I doubted the students ability to use a GPS to find themselves and get themselves to the designated airport I'd have them do that. In this case I know he can use a GPS just fine. Now I want to see him practice and improve the other skills required in the PTS such as pilotage and dead reckoning.

I fly all the time without a GPS. It's not a terrifying thing, I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to be in the air without one.

There are documented cases of Garmin active gps antennas failing and causing no GPS in the airplane to work whatsoever.

 

[bbchien]

Just confirms my thinking that Jesse is a terrific instructor

I've been even more devious. I've been known to put the shutoff-396 on the glareshield (Magnetic mount). You know what that does to the compass; but the stu is also likely to do that solo, when I'm not there.

Then, later on, I'll do exactly what Jesse did, with the 396 noplace in sight. A good student figures out the game, and then the "Game is on!". Now he doesn't trust the mag compass any longer, and heads for a town, an interstate, a lake, an NDB, a VOR, anything identible.

My long XC stus are NOT going to get lost!

B.

 

[GCA319]

I'm known for pulling engines over airports too, yet everytime I do it, they pick the road with powerlines running along each side of the road.

 

[GCA319]

Around here we have zones with no reliable GPS receiption due to navigation jammers that USAF test. What's more insiduous, they also jam competing navigation systems such as GLONASS and Beidou, so a multi-band navigation receiver isn't going to help you here.

BTW, I often use Sun for navigation. In NM overcast is very rare, so you can tell cardinal directions easily if you know the time of day. The trick is to look at shadows.

It's alot harder to get lost in most of NM (except for the eastern plains) than it is in NE.

 

[murphey]

Compass. Compass. Compass.

 

[bbchien]

Compass. Compass. Compass.

See post #19. I do that because I had a student fall prey to the magnetic mount, once....never again.

 

[murphey]

See post #19. I do that because I had a student fall prey to the magnetic mount, once....never again.

Us computer geeks are always paranoid about anything magnetic. I despise those magnetic advertising cards I get in the mail, too.

 

[Matthew]

I can't remember all the lost scenarios my CFI put me through, but one does stick with me. We were doing hood-work, partial panel, unusual attitudes, at night. CFI then uncovered the 'failed' instruments and made me figure out where were were, find the closest airport, then take us there - all while still being under the hood. That was one fun adventure. My first guess at where we were put me about 30 miles east of our actual location. I tuned in a VOR and got the bearing, and had to double-check because I was sure we had been drifting east and not west.

So far, navigation hasn't been too big a problem for me over the years. About the only time I had a problem was with a checkpoint I had picked out. The sectional said 'tank farm'. No problem, I thought, they are pretty easy to spot. Problem - the area where the 'tank farm' was shown on the sectional was littered with tank farms for many, many miles. Turned out not to be a big deal, but it was kind of surprising to both know where you are and NOT know where you are at the same time.

 

[iWantWings]

I wish u were my CFI, or that my CFI had done that.

I personally think a lesson like this is not just about figuring out where you are, but just as important inducing a stressful situation under which the student must, at a minimum, continue to do the basics like fly the plane, monitor fuel, no CFIT while coming up with a plan (given the available fuel).

Thanks for posting - i got a free very good lesson and will read it again in less of a hurry.

PS after i once had a genuine DG failure (it was not the vacuum) i now instinctively double check with magnetic compass when straight and level (and not accelerating).

 

[spiderweb]

Jesse, how would you get a student lost in a glass-panel? I think I would just either fail both panels or dim them to unreadable. You still have a compass, plus the AI, AH, and altimeter. In good VFR, that should be enough. In IMC, I think I would request vectors to the nearest area of VMC, and if there wasn't any airport near enough that was in VMC, I'd request vectors and a PAR at a big airport. I've done a few of them (under the hood), and they were actually quite low stress, as long as I could break out before mins.

 

[iWantWings]

Jesse, how would you get a student lost in a glass-panel? I think I would just either fail both panels or dim them to unreadable. You still have a compass, plus the AI, AH, and altimeter. In good VFR, that should be enough. In IMC, I think I would request vectors to the nearest area of VMC, and if there wasn't any airport near enough that was in VMC, I'd request vectors and a PAR at a big airport. I've done a few of them (under the hood), and they were actually quite low stress, as long as I could break out before mins.

Funny thing is the cessna 162 skycatcher that my school has, does not have a magnetic compass - has pfd, mfd but no other backup system. I guess those LRUs never fail or have some clever redundancy

 

[DaleB]

Funny thing is the cessna 162 skycatcher that my school has, does not have a magnetic compass - has pfd, mfd but no other backup system. I guess those LRUs never fail or have some clever redundancy

I've seen some experimentals with panels I would personally not feel comfortable flying with. One or two displays, no backup steam gauges. I would want at the very least an ASI, AI and either a DG or compass. Call me paranoid, but after working with electronics and computers for as long as I have... I love the modern stuff, but don't trust it THAT much.

 

[jesse]

Jesse, how would you get a student lost in a glass-panel? I think I would just either fail both panels or dim them to unreadable. You still have a compass, plus the AI, AH, and altimeter. In good VFR, that should be enough. In IMC, I think I would request vectors to the nearest area of VMC, and if there wasn't any airport near enough that was in VMC, I'd request vectors and a PAR at a big airport. I've done a few of them (under the hood), and they were actually quite low stress, as long as I could break out before mins.

No idea, I haven't given much of any dual in fully glass cockpit airplanes. I'm pretty comfortable with Aspens and most any GPS...but haven't flown G1000 like airplanes much.

 

[MAKG1]

Wow, that is EVIL!

Really valuable, I'd guess, as well.

FYI, using the sun for navigation doesn't mean you have to see it. At midday, all shadows point north. You could use shadows from one of those water towers just as easily as something inside the aircraft.

Around here, most airports have their names emblazoned on a taxiway (usually the parallel to the runway), so it's never necessary to land to figure out where you are. Some airports will get you in hot water if you land without permission in less than an emergency. And being lost isn't an emergency unless you also have low fuel.

 

[Tex_Mike]

Then I would have found the closest strip of runway, and landed. I DO NOT want to be in the air when GPS goes out.

Are you saying you do not want to be flying because WWIII has broken out hence the down GPS system or are you saying that you will not fly in an airplane without a functional GPS, period?

I did all of my training in planes with GPS', most of which had a 430 installed but I can tell you I never really used them. I wanted to learn how to navigate the old fashioned way. I figured I could always learn the details of the GPS later, which is what I did. Not to say I was not taught how to use the GPS during training. I was shown the basics, direct to etc but I never used it on my cross countries with or without my CFI.

 

[Gubbins]

Great story!

It is easy to hide the GPS functionality on the G1000 by the way. Just show the stormscope display or something without the map on the MFD, and on the PFD select a VOR or something as the CDI. No more GPS.

 

[Mafoo]

If I doubted the students ability to use a GPS to find themselves and get themselves to the designated airport I'd have them do that. In this case I know he can use a GPS just fine. Now I want to see him practice and improve the other skills required in the PTS such as pilotage and dead reckoning.

I fly all the time without a GPS. It's not a terrifying thing, I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to be in the air without one.

There are documented cases of Garmin active gps antennas failing and causing no GPS in the airplane to work whatsoever.

The GPS is not the only thing that failed him. So did his 6 Pack (because it would not have done a 90 degree move on it's own).

Even if it did, or the pilot meant to move the needle and moved the gauge or whatever, the scenario is "You have no clue where you are, and a subset of your avionics just failed. What do you do?"

I land. Simple as that. If you want to know if I can dead recon, or pilotage, then cool, I will show you that.

But if everything you just setup happened, I would hope landing is an acceptable solution to rebooting my flight.

 

[Mafoo]

Not to mention on top of all that, you have been in IFR conditions for the last 30 minutes.

 

[jesse]

The GPS is not the only thing that failed him. So did his 6 Pack (because it would not have done a 90 degree move on it's own).

Even if it did, or the pilot meant to move the needle and moved the gauge or whatever, the scenario is "You have no clue where you are, and a subset of your avionics just failed. What do you do?"

I land. Simple as that. If you want to know if I can dead recon, or pilotage, then cool, I will show you that.

But if everything you just setup happened, I would hope landing is an acceptable solution to rebooting my flight.

If you wanted to land to get your bearings, I would permit that, but unless it's an emergency you probably should be aware of where you're landing. PLenty of bad things can happen by just willy nilly landing at some random airport you see that you know nothing about. If you need to land at an airport and you don't know what that airport even is called yet alone it's NOTAMS or airspace then I consider you doing that because you think you have an emergency. Which means we'll be doing the lesson again and again until you can get lost and get back to your course without making it into an emergency.

If I doubted your ability to navigate simply by looking out the window I would fail pretty much your entire panel and we'd be doing a cross country like that. We'd keep doing that until you felt comfortable by navigating based on what you saw outside. My signature, my way If you didn't believe my way was the right way you could feel free to find yourself a new instructor. I do this because I want to train the best pilots I can -- not because I care if you pay me after the flight. Worst case you drop me and I get to go fishing instead

When I am done with my students they are the best I can make them with or without everything in the airplane working.

Thankfully the vast majority of students I've had have understood that although they might not LIKE what I'm doing when I do it to them they'll appreciate it afterwords.

 

[MAKG1]

I DO NOT want to be in the air when GPS goes out.

Why not? It's going to happen. It DOES happen over significant areas already, especially at high altitude. A RAIM alert on a 430 is not unheard of. It is on an IPad, but that just means it's going to give you a wrong answer without telling you.

I've heard that statement before. In the context of the Year 2000 Problem. No, airplanes didn't fall out of the sky then, either. It was a bit on the obvious side, too, even before the nonevent; even if every FMS unit failed, they aren't safety critical hardware, and every pilot could find a safe place to land with a chart and compass.

Every pilot must be capable of navigating without a GPS. If YOU aren't, change that. It's not very hard.

 

[Matthew]

Question for the CFIs about students (or even low-time PP): Getting lost (day vfr flights) - there are probably two ways to do it, one is the training situation where you put the student into an unfamiliar area and then whip off the hood. The other is the slow, off course just a little bit but for a long time, case where the student looks for the next checkpoint and can't find it.

Do you think that students tend to rely too much on learning to use, and depend on, NAV instruments that they just forget, or never learn, how to look out the window?

How much of navigation do you think is 'natural', or a case where some people just get it and others don't?

 

[Gubbins]

I agree that everyone should be capable of navigating without GPS. If I am VFR, it would be annoying but definitely not a showstopper and I would just continue using VOR's and/or pilotage. If it happened while I was IFR in IMC conditions on a STAR into a busy airport... No way am I going to try to fly the STAR using intersections off VOR's: I'm diverting and landing at the nearest quiet airport.

 

[Mafoo]

If you wanted to land to get your bearings, I would permit that, but unless it's an emergency you probably should be aware of where you're landing. PLenty of bad things can happen by just willy nilly landing at some random airport you see that you know nothing about. If you need to land at an airport and you don't know what that airport even is called yet alone it's NOTAMS or airspace then I consider you doing that because you think you have an emergency. Which means we'll be doing the lesson again and again until you can get lost and get back to your course without making it into an emergency.

If I doubted your ability to navigate simply by looking out the window I would fail pretty much your entire panel and we'd be doing a cross country like that. We'd keep doing that until you felt comfortable by navigating based on what you saw outside. My signature, my way If you didn't believe my way was the right way you could feel free to find yourself a new instructor. I do this because I want to train the best pilots I can -- not because I care if you pay me after the flight. Worst case you drop me and I get to go fishing instead

When I am done with my students they are the best I can make them with or without everything in the airplane working.

Thankfully the vast majority of students I've had have understood that although they might not LIKE what I'm doing when I do it to them they'll appreciate it afterwords.

But for 30 minutes, you didn't let him look out the window. You purposely setup the situation where he flew the wrong way for 30 minutes (without letting him look out the windows to quickly catch it).

When I fly, I have landmarks every 10-15 minutes, and I try to keep obvious landmarks in site all the time (rivers, lakes, roads, etc). I am constantly looking at my map, and making sure I am going where I think I should be.

You setup a senario that's cool. however the only way it can happen, is if I am in IFR conditions, as the most I can currently get lost, is 10-15 minutes. When I do get lost, I know how many mile radius I am lost from. I also know what I flew over for the last 10-15 minutes.

For your situation to happen in real life, I would need to have been in IFR conditions for 30 minutes, with failed avionics. When I pop out of IFR and am back into VFR with parts of my plane broken and no clue where I am, you better damn well know I am landing.