So, to summarize: "path 2", i.e. BasicMed while on an SSRI is out since the meds are disqualifying; but BasicMed is possible ("path 1") as long as the person is fully functional off meds. Is that about right?Yes, Terry. As you basically continued to function and work during the whole period, there's no question as to "psychosis" in the original legislation. Your PCP can sign you off.
...the above is to your question.
Not for recurrent disease, you can't do that. Recurrent disease has already recurred, and so will again.
So for everyone's benefit, let's be perfectly clear on this. The FAA considers ANY history of recurrent depression to be disqualifying for BasicMed, even if the airman is off medication? And then the ONLY path open is the Path 2 SI, which has to be maintained? Is there ANY path to BasicMed while on the meds and under the care of a psychiatrist? What if the psychiatrist deems the patient to be restored to functionality through some form of talk therapy, and off of medication?
Happy to oblige! Yes, the process took about 2.5 years in total (and I was unable to fly for right around 17 months, given time from denial to SI issuance), but that's including the 'false start' of trying to certify off-medication. If someone was already on an approved SSRI (stably for 6+ months) and wished to certify on-medication, and was already being seen/prescribed by a "board certified psychiatrist", they could receive a special issuance in just under a year based on the timeline I experienced. Of course, that's as a "non-revenue airman", as Dr. Bruce says - were I requiring a second or first class medical as part of being a commercial pilot, I'm assuming that timeline can be compressed slightly, but only Dr. Bruce could advise further.
It was bad enough for me as an applicant what with the Germanwings 9525 crash freshly on the FAA's mind, but honestly, with the stolen Q400 crash last weekend, I wonder if fresh applicants will have an even tougher time. Given the attitudes towards mental health, it makes me feel like a bit of a pariah - when others were surprised by my having to slog through a difficult SI and exclaimed "How come? You look like a perfectly healthy guy!" I simply said that it was because of a medication I take, and I didn't elaborate further. Honestly, it seems like the DUI/possession applicants have easier runs at obtaining a medical (I could very well be wrong), and my experience has certainly colored my opinion of dealing with the FAA. I know Dr. Bruce insists on full disclosure and truthfulness (which I certainly provided, and was perfectly honest when dealing with him and all other doctors), but if someone in a similar situation to mine asked me if they should slog through the SSRI application path with an unknown outcome, or if they should simply "lie via omission", I'd have a difficult time telling them that the former is truly the best route. It felt like an incredibly burdensome barrier for someone who just wanted to follow their dreams. In fairness to the FAA, however, it wasn't until 2010 that a medical was even possible to get for someone on an SSRI, so progress is at least being made (and we have Dr. Bruce in particular to thank for that). Thus endeth my rant...
How much did this cost me? What, are you trying to provoke anxiety/depression?!?I can't find all my old check copies, but this breakdown is probably pretty close:
$180 - Dr. Bruce starts my file late 2015
$151.31 - general practitioner late 2015
$600 - HIMS psychiatrist april 2016
$180 - Dr. Bruce visit may 2016
....and then I got the denial. So, just under one AMU for certifying off-medication, had that been successful. But, it wasn't, so I proceeded onward with:
$158.58 - general practitioner late 2016
$130 - Board certified psychiatrist late 2016
$90 - Board certified psychiatrist late 2016
$90 - Board certified psychiatrist early 2017
$90 - Board certified psychiatrist may 2017
$280 - HIMS psychiatrist june 2017
$750 - Cogscreen-AE test (as noted in the first post, I did well enough on Cogscreen that the additional gauntlet of cognitive testing wasn't needed - the day would have cost me $1375 if my Cogscreen scores weren't sufficient on their own, and I thusly required the additional test results to prove acceptable cognitive function)
$144 - HIMS psychiatrist july 2017 (this was the optional 'cherry on top' visit)
$90 - Board certified psychiatrist aug 2017
$300 - Dr. Bruce visit aug 2017 (Dr. Bruce was running a special deal that week - "buck a pound" for paperwork submitted to the FAA. I'm kidding of course - it would have been closer to $500 if he had such an offer
$90 - Board certified psychiatrist nov 2017
$90 - Board certified psychiatrist jan 2018
$90 - Board certified psychiatrist apr 2018
...and then I got the SI. So... [types numbers into calculator, shields eyes from result...] Around 2.4 AMU. Which honestly is not bad - Dr. Bruce had cautioned me that this would not be cheap, and said to expect around 4 AMU for the process, and that's the number I would give to anyone asking how much they should expect to spend. I managed to do it cheaper, but the costs can vary quite a bit based on where in the US you are, as well as other factors (I noted that the FAA only requires a 6 month visitation cycle with the board certified psychiatrist, but mine insists on 3 months).
The big question is, was it worth it? This took years (while being grounded), thousands of dollars, lots of stress, loads of aggravation, all simply to prove to a government agency that I am "fit to fly". But when I line up my little airplane on the end of 4000 feet of arrow straight asphalt under a clear blue sky, firewall the throttle, hit Vr and pull back to see the entire earth fall away from me... Yeah, it was worth it. Every. Single. Penny.
Pinging Doctor's Lou and Bruce for their input to this question. @lbfjrmd @bbchienHello everyone,
If I pursue the SI path and plan on staying on SSRI, is there any chance the FAA can cite me for violation of FAR 61.53? (eg, if they see when I started SSRIs and find out I've flown since then) (
a person who holds a current medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter shall not act as pilot in command, or in any other capacity as a required flight crewmember while that person:
Thanks for the advice!
- Knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate necessary for the pilot operation
The reg doesn't say that. The reg in paragraph (a) which you are quoting specifically exempts operations under paragraphs (b) (things like sport pilot, gliders, flight instruction) and (c) (basic med) from being subject to that rule.Hello everyone,
If I pursue the SI path and plan on staying on SSRI, is there any chance the FAA can cite me for violation of FAR 61.53? (eg, if they see when I started SSRIs and find out I've flown since then) (
a person who holds a current medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter shall not act as pilot in command, or in any other capacity as a required flight crewmember while that person:
Thanks for the advice!
- Knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate necessary for the pilot operation
Bruce, are we both talking about ordinary, run of the mill (i.e. non-psychotic) depression? If so, this is really NOT clear from the statute, which only talks about psychosis, bipolar, personality disorder severe enough to have manifested in overt acts, and substance dependence. If it's true, I'll bet there are a number of pilots flying on Basic Med who have such a diagnosis (some may not even know it), who shouldn't be. Most PCPs would certainly not read that into the list of disqualifying conditions, and I even wonder how may AMEs would.
Just curious: Does posting those result in their getting an alert or something?
I received no alert. What brought me to this post was clicking on "Watched Threads" at the top of the page. The list which that produced included this thread because it had a new post since the last time I opened the thread. That happens whether someone types "@Palmpilot" or not.
You're right. I just checked my Alert Preferences page, and "Mentions you in a message" is not checked. I'm pretty sure that I have never changed those settings from their defaults, so it looks like this is not a reliable way to get someone's attention.
Interesting... since I'm pretty sure I've never changed my Alert Preferences settings either.
Psychotic depression is not issuable, any class, so assumedly if one had that in his /her history, the third would never have been issued, therefore no Eligibility for BasicMed. Of course, then there are liars, sociopaths, etc.....
It's a mystery!Interesting... since I'm pretty sure I've never changed my Alert Preferences settings either.
You made me curious, so I just checked mine, and it looks like all of the boxes are checked. I wonder what the default is.
Of course someone might get the dx after holding a 3rd class for some years...
So your post made me wonder. So if I understand correctly I can be on a SSRI and still be able to take flight lessons?
, and it finally dawned on me who you are. Hey don’t be a stranger, the rest at 1C5 is a great lunch meet up...and it 200 yards from the office door .... Cogscreamer: I am so happy that we got you there.....