My situation

Listen to Dr. Bruce.
bbchien said:
Depends on the AME- how up to date he is. Most should, but some are amazing.
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I'd recommend you go initially to a senior AME, qualified to issue Class 1. Discuss your situation with him before you check which class you're applying for. You know you're interested in finding someone who can issue a 1st class anyway; start that relationship early.
 
Hi,
The reason why I ask is because the AME who can grant first class medicals is not close, at all to where I am, so I would like to avoid a trip all the way out there if possible. The AME who does not award first class medicals is literally, down the street from me.

I looked up the physician and he is a doctor who has been in practice for a very very long time, (almost 60 years) so I am confident that he knows a lot about medicine, and has probably dealt with many cases like mine (I believe it said he has been an AME since the early 70's.) Anyway, when I go in there next month I am focusing on getting the third class medical, and then finding out if I will be eligible for a first class medical when the time comes. Is this a good plan?

I want to beable to fly planes for a living, and (hopefully) not struggle to find a job because of my disability. I now understand that becoming an airline pilot may not happen right away, or even at all, however do you guys agree that there will be a job for me somewhere in aviation? (flying planes for hire, and able to make a living)

I appreciate all the responses,
Thanks
 
Sac90 said:
Hi,
The reason why I ask is because the AME who can grant first class medicals is not close, at all to where I am, so I would like to avoid a trip all the way out there if possible. The AME who does not award first class medicals is literally, down the street from me.

I looked up the physician and he is a doctor who has been in practice for a very very long time, (almost 60 years) so I am confident that he knows a lot about medicine, and has probably dealt with many cases like mine (I believe it said he has been an AME since the early 70's.) Anyway, when I go in there next month I am focusing on getting the third class medical, and then finding out if I will be eligible for a first class medical when the time comes. Is this a good plan?

I want to beable to fly planes for a living, and (hopefully) not struggle to find a job because of my disability. I now understand that becoming an airline pilot may not happen right away, or even at all, however do you guys agree that there will be a job for me somewhere in aviation? (flying planes for hire, and able to make a living)

I appreciate all the responses,
Thanks
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Well, almost anybody can make a small fortune in aviation. The trick, of course, is to start with a large fortune.:rolleyes:

I'd recommend starting with someone that you know can make the determination about your ability to do a 1st class medical, even though he's a ways away. Remember, you won't need to make that trip again for another three years, as long as a third-class medical meets your flying needs for that period.

And I think that there may (and probably will) be a job for you in aviation. Make a living? Depends on your style of living. As my joke at the beginning alluded to, there's not a whole lot of money in aviation, so if you're planning to live like a rock-star, you'd best forget it. There are jokes about flight instructors loving Ramen noodles and Mac 'n Cheese for a reason.

Bot, if you love to fly, that can make up for an awful lot of bad meals! Do it, however, because you love it and really want it, not because of some idealized notion.

As others have said: go for it, because it can be very rewarding, but have a solid plan 'B'.
 
Thanks, and please people still let me know what you think about my plans to visit that AME, I am open to more opinions but will keep your advise in my mind Grant Prellwitz.

Also, please continue to give me your opinions on my situation.
Thanks again
 
So, you are a 17-year-old with dreams of being a pilot and you have a limp that doesn't stop you from driving a car. You don't want to waste time and money on a dream that won't happen, so you stopped by this virtual hangar to get some advice. You're doing good, kid.

First, follow the dream. There are going to be twists and turns in your life path that you can't anticipate, but if you turn away from your dream because maybe you might not make it, you'll finish your life wondering what would have happened if you had tried. Here is a thread from this board that you missed. It talks about the dreams we had as youngsters.
http://www.pilotsofamerica.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14755

Second, prepare for your dream. It's important to learn to be the best, safest, smartest pilot around. It's also important to learn to be the best, smartest person you can be. Get a pilot's license for sure. But also get a college education. That captain of the huge Boeing or Airbus got there with a sheepskin under his arm. Then be ready for the marketplace to change radically. Right now, regionals are hiring. What will they be doing in 4 or 6 years? Here is a thread about the current pilot shortage.
http://www.pilotsofamerica.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15921

Next, be flexible. Here are a couple of websites that will give you some ideas of what pilots are doing for pay. There are better sites, but I don't remember what they are. Probably others on this board can point you to them.
http://findapilot.com/
http://www.tradeaplane.com/classifi...AND&keyword2=&timelimit=0&tlvalue=2&maxads=25

Finally, good luck to you. You are doing the right thing to get in touch with this group. They are a great bunch of guys, willing to help and encourage a newcomer to the field. Sure, they'll tell you about the stumbling blocks in your way, but they'll still cheer you on as you surmount your obstacles. As long as you develop into the cheerful, friendly, hopeful type of person that others want to know, you'll have a good life -- whether you fly an airliner or radio-controlled models.
 
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gprellwitz said:
Listen to Dr. Bruce.
I'd recommend you go initially to a senior AME, qualified to issue Class 1. Discuss your situation with him before you check which class you're applying for. You know you're interested in finding someone who can issue a 1st class anyway; start that relationship early.
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I would apply for a Third Class for training purposes as needed but ask for a consultation or review of your health as if you were seeking a First Class. The less you put on paper in the Form 8700 to the FAA, the better. If there is any evidence of deficiency, this is your chance to make further determinations on how to defeat them with that AME and/or a personal physician's assistance.
 
KennyFlys said:
I would apply for a Third Class for training purposes as needed but ask for a consultation or review of your health as if you were seeking a First Class. The less you put on paper in the Form 8700 to the FAA, the better. If there is any evidence of deficiency, this is your chance to make further determinations on how to defeat them with that AME and/or a personal physician's assistance.
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I don't think that my personal physician would have a problem defending me if it ever came to an appealing process. I would probably beable to produce a number of physicians that would only speak for the better of me. Like I said, my father was a physician and my family has relationships with many physicians, however they would defend not because of the friendship we have, but because they know of what I am truely capable of.

One extra thing: Would having a letter from my ortropeadic doctor stating his opinion on my situation be of any good when visiting the AME? I fear it would only show a sign of disrespect toward the AME. Thanks

Nevermind, my mom just informed me that the doctor called today and stated that he does want something from my ortropeadic doctor saying that his opinion is the braces will not interfere with I am flying the plane. This will not be a problem to get. This is good news, right?
 
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Is this strange?

My mom said when the office called they insisted on canceling the appointment until we have the documentation in our hands stating that I can fly a plane safely from my ortropeadic doctor. Like I said this will not be a problem, and I will probably have that letter in my hands tommrow or Friday.

The fact that the appointment had to be canceled - when it was about a full month away strikes me as odd. (A month is enough time I think to get documentation, atleast I think) However they told us to call back when we have documentation in hand. I mean now I have to hope that on Friday or sometime next week when I call the office back the appointment is still there, or this will be delayed.

I guess this is a good sign right? The fact that he wants documentation from my doctor saying that in his medical opinion he feels that it is safe for me to fly a plane. I mean, I can easily get that from my physician. I think this documentation will also be good when applying for a first class medical certificate, right?

Is this a good sign, or a bad sign?
 
Sac90 said:
One extra thing: Would having a letter from my ortropeadic doctor stating his opinion on my situation be of any good when visiting the AME? I fear it would only show a sign of disrespect toward the AME. Thanks

Nevermind, my mom just informed me that the doctor called today and stated that he does want something from my ortropeadic doctor saying that his opinion is the braces will not interfere with I am flying the plane. This will not be a problem to get. This is good news, right?
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I honestly do not know the process of seeking waivers but I cannot imagine the AME not seeking all supporting evidence possible to work in your favor. The FSDO flight surgeon will want as much which would include everything the AME provides and probably more.

I think, initially, you have a small hurdle as far as the Third Class and most likely a Second Class at a later date. But, I would recommend concentrating on just the Third Class for now and only a consultation to later qualify for a First. For the moment, the idea is to train.

You have to remember a large part of preparing yourself for your ultimate goal is the primary training and subsequent levels. You've got your work cut out for you. You obviously want to fly airplanes. And, you want to make it a career. The latter depends on your developing skills during training much more than the medical.

Bottom line to my suggestion... relax. Get the medical you need for now to train. Then, train. Take it seriously with regard to safety and procedure but have fun learning and performing the skills. You've got a long road but you've got the time to get there. Make it an enjoyable experience.

So, take a deep breath and relax.
 
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Sac90 said:
Why would I need a medical waiver if I can do the samething just the as good as somebody who does not have a disability? The only difference is I have leg braces, but I am not using anything different. I am stuck here. This may answer the limbless question, however what about the people who have said no problem? Why are they saying I should not have a problem? Please tell me.
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I think you are forgetting to seperate the "No Problems" as there are multiple issues. Bruce has stated you will be able to get a medical one way or the other as long as you can perform. If you can perform as well, and have enough money, you can get an ATP certificate (I believe you can even get the ATP certificate while holding a 3rd class medical). What people here are saying is that there are more criteria involved in the hiring process than just the rating and a medical.

Now, you are 17, Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but at 18 I believe you can get your Commercial rating, this qualifies you for the right seat in 135 &121 operations, and currently as well as for the next year or two, the regional airlines are hiring with 250+ hrs and no multi, and they may be easier to get on with(and you'll know early on if you can get hired, if they won't hire you, the majors surely won't). The pay sucks for the first year or two and you'll have to get your degree through a Distance Learning program (I would recommend the Herriot Watt MBA through the Edinburough Business School, quite a few Fortune 500 companies use this program for employees they want to groom for executive management), and you'll be in the right seat till you're 23 and have your ATP, but at that point, you'll have a track record in 121 service and a few thousand hours which may help your hirerability status, as well as a respected MBA to give you a world of other options (even within the airline industry) if you can't make the move to the cockpit of the majors.
 
Henning,

Based on what you just said, would there be any point in him even going for 1st class until he's 20?

He only needs a 2nd class for anything *but* ATP, right? So - he's 17, medical's good for 3 years, get 2nd class now and wait for the extra cost and effort for 1st till the first renewal?
 
Hi,
Thanks for the previous response, but can someone please comment on my post #88?
Thanks
 
It sounds to me like he just doesn't want to get half way through the exam and have to stop, but I'm not a doctor and can't really be trusted to comment correctly. ;)
 
Sac90 said:
Hi,
Thanks for the previous response, but can someone please comment on my post #88?
Thanks
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Your meeting with the AME has to have two separate components. One will be for the third class medical. One will be an assessment for your fitness for a first class/second class medical.

Because of the way medical applications happen, if the doc STARTS filling out an FAA form, he has to complete it. So what you want to do is go in for the consultation FIRST, not a medical application. Do not fill out the form you will be handed. Do not sign it. If you start the application process, and he finds a reason to deny it or defer it, you are denied or deferred regardless of whether that's the class you're interested in. After the issues regarding your ultimate employability are resolved, THEN you say "OK, give me a third class so I can get started" or, if the discussion turns out poorly, you thank him and leave.

Were I in your position, I would schedule a consultation with the remote AME who is able to issue 1st class certificates first. Do not apply for a medical certificate at that consultation. Talk about what you have and what you want. He will tell you EXACTLY what your prognosis is for first class/second class and he can give you a list of EXACTLY what supporting documentation you will need from your treating physicians. Armed with that documentation, you then go to your nearby AME with it in hand and get your third class. You want to keep all the stuff together, so assemble it all and take it all in together. (Copies, not originals.)
 
Sac90, you would do very well to contact Dr. Bruce offline for a frank discussion of your medical condition. As he is a licensed physician, anything you tell him will be kept confidential, and as a member of the AOPA Medical Advisory Board, he is as knowledgeable as they come, not to mention personally acquainted with the FAA's top docs. Only someone like him with a full description of your ailment can give you a good read on whether the underlying condition causing you to wear that brace will be an aviation medical issue either now or down the road. Without that, you're just stirring yourself up.
 
Ron Levy said:
Sac90, you would do very well to contact Dr. Bruce offline for a frank discussion of your medical condition. As he is a licensed physician, anything you tell him will be kept confidential, and as a member of the AOPA Medical Advisory Board, he is as knowledgeable as they come, not to mention personally acquainted with the FAA's top docs. Only someone like him with a full description of your ailment can give you a good read on whether the underlying condition causing you to wear that brace will be an aviation medical issue either now or down the road. Without that, you're just stirring yourself up.
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Sac, That's good advice. You need to speak with a knowledgeable senior AME and give them FULL and FRANK information. I know in the past that others have started out mentioning A, only to have B and C come out later during the discussion. Not saying that you'd do that, just passing it along.

As for your chosen AME making sure that you have the required documentation before you make an appointment, that seems like a prudent move on his part. He only has a proscribed amount of time after the form is filled out before he must make a determination on it, and if he can't give a definitive approval in that time, it becomes problematic for you. I would expect that he's just trying to make sure that he has all the information at that time to make the determination. Probably been burned in the past by people who make an appointment saying they'll have the documentation before the appointment, only to show up saying that they just didn't get it in time.
 
Sac90 said:
Is this strange?

My mom said when the office called they insisted on canceling the appointment until we have the documentation in our hands stating that I can fly a plane safely from my ortropeadic doctor. Like I said this will not be a problem, and I will probably have that letter in my hands tommrow or Friday.

The fact that the appointment had to be canceled - when it was about a full month away strikes me as odd. (A month is enough time I think to get documentation, atleast I think) However they told us to call back when we have documentation in hand. I mean now I have to hope that on Friday or sometime next week when I call the office back the appointment is still there, or this will be delayed.

I guess this is a good sign right? The fact that he wants documentation from my doctor saying that in his medical opinion he feels that it is safe for me to fly a plane. I mean, I can easily get that from my physician. I think this documentation will also be good when applying for a first class medical certificate, right?

Is this a good sign, or a bad sign?
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Not strange at all. You have a long tem Physician AME who has chosen NOT to become a Senior AME (qualified to issue 1st class), this says to me he doesn't want the responsibility or hassle of anything but simple medicals. So, time to qit trying to find the easy convienient way, it's not going to happen for you, they're not the cards you were dealt, so you have to play the hand you have. You'll need to be dealing with a Senior AME, and if that means travelling to do it, we'll, that's your ante into the pot. There are people who fly in from all over the country to see the Dr Bruce who has been answering you here. You have the good fortune to have one of the top AMEs in the country at your disposal. If you want it bad enough, be prepared that you may have to make a trip to Peoria regardless of what a god forsaken place it may be. There will be NOTHING easy or standard about this endevour for you. You will have many set backs and road blocks, consider nothing strange and don't even bother worrying about what's fair or not, just keep steering around the roadblocks regardless of how far out of your way the detour takes you. That is the only way you'll achieve your goal, and remember, no matter how hard you try and what you sacrafice, You still may not make it, not everyone does regardless of physical condition. There are a lot of people who want those jobs, that's why the starting pay scale can be a starvation wage, and people are lining up at the door for the jobs.
 
Greebo said:
Henning,

Based on what you just said, would there be any point in him even going for 1st class until he's 20?

He only needs a 2nd class for anything *but* ATP, right? So - he's 17, medical's good for 3 years, get 2nd class now and wait for the extra cost and effort for 1st till the first renewal?
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Maybe, maybe not. Many of them want to see a first class for hire so they know that when it's time to upgrade you can get one, but as the hiring situation stands now, all bets are off.
 
Henning said:
Not strange at all. You have a long tem Physician AME who has chosen NOT to become a Senior AME (qualified to issue 1st class), this says to me he doesn't want the responsibility or hassle of anything but simple medicals. So, time to qit trying to find the easy convienient way, it's not going to happen for you, they're not the cards you were dealt, so you have to play the hand you have. You'll need to be dealing with a Senior AME, and if that means travelling to do it, we'll, that's your ante into the pot. There are people who fly in from all over the country to see the Dr Bruce who has been answering you here. You have the good fortune to have one of the top AMEs in the country at your disposal. If you want it bad enough, be prepared that you may have to make a trip to Peoria regardless of what a god forsaken place it may be. There will be NOTHING easy or standard about this endevour for you. You will have many set backs and road blocks, consider nothing strange and don't even bother worrying about what's fair or not, just keep steering around the roadblocks regardless of how far out of your way the detour takes you. That is the only way you'll achieve your goal, and remember, no matter how hard you try and what you sacrafice, You still may not make it, not everyone does regardless of physical condition. There are a lot of people who want those jobs, that's why the starting pay scale can be a starvation wage, and people are lining up at the door for the jobs.
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The office urged me to call back and make the appointment once I had the documentation in my hand.

I called my doctor and he is writing up the letter and will fax it to me early next week. I will have the letter in my hands and reschedule the appointment.
 
Sac90 said:
The office urged me to call back and make the appointment once I had the documentation in my hand.

I called my doctor and he is writing up the letter and will fax it to me early next week. I will have the letter in my hands and reschedule the appointment.
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There is also the possibility the AME will want more than a letter from your doc, but will want test results etc. If possible, you should have your doc contact the AME directly, as they speak the same language and therefore nothing will get lost in the translation. No reason you should be a middleman on this.
 
Sac90 said:
Hi,
Thanks for the previous response, but can someone please comment on my post #88?
Thanks
Click to expand...

I'm no doctor, and I'm no commercial pilot, so maybe this comment will sound a little undereducated, but....

Something about all of these posts sounds a little rushed. Ok, a lot rushed. I understand that you would like answers, would like them to be definitive, and would like them right now, but that's not how the process works. Heck, that's not how life usually works either, right?

There are a ton of very smart people on this board, and a bunch of the messages already posted speak to the process. They're not designed to discourage you. They are designed to set the framework for the problem from various perspectives. Your original post asked about step #1 and step #136 in a long process, and many of the replies tried to (gently) remind you of the importance of taking #2-135, as well as giving you the benefit of some insight gained by, collectively, a thousand years of life experience.

Don't squander what you're hearing here. The medical advice you'll get from the AMEs, but there is other, equally important stuff being said. I guarantee that all of it is being said for the sole purpose of helping you, not hindering you; Nobody is trying to dissuade you from trying your best to achieve your goal and nothing would make me smile more than to learn that a smart, dedicated 17 year old was one day able to make the airlines look beyond their own norms.

Dozens of people with otherwise busy lives have taken the time to post a response in the hopes of being helpful to you, and in that have provided some invaluable insights. In fact, I think what's already been said (before this post) is so sound that you should print it out and put it at the bottom of your sock drawer, and every Halloween pull it out to look at it again in the context of where you are in the journey on that date. I think you will be surprised how your thinking changes as you go through the process.

OK, this is sounding preachy, so I'm going to stop, but not before I say that for a 17 year old you seem motivated and dedicated, and therefore you have an advantage. Follow your bliss if it is aviation. Hope for the best, plan for the worst and don't screw around with the in-between.
 
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