My ignorant desert airspace rant

will44s

will44s

Pre-Flight
Joined
Nov 3, 2012
Messages
60
Location
Wy
Display Name
Display name:
Notch 8
Flight planning a trip to southern Ca next month and it feels like it is walled in by restricted airspace with one doorway. Doesn't help that the opening is blocked by Las Vegas Bravo and grand canyon special flight rules. I trained in Socal and never really noticed this huge blockade across the east. Is there a trick I'm missing to avoid long detours?
 
Going into PSP?

Just ask if it's active, if not direct.
 
You can fly through Grand Canyon SFRA too, just follow the instructions. They aren't too onerous, especially if you can climb high.
 
Going over the top of Bravo is an option.
 
It's not too bad. MMM to GFS requires just a slight dogleg to go around the edge of the Bravo, or go above it or below it. But do take advantage of flight following; there's a ton of airliners climbing and descending through G.A. cruising altitudes in that area.
 
Pilawt said:
It's not too bad. MMM to GFS requires just a slight dogleg to go around the edge of the Bravo, or go above it or below it. But do take advantage of flight following; there's a ton of airliners climbing and descending through G.A. cruising altitudes in that area.
Click to expand...

This. The airspace isn’t that daunting, but holy hell there’s a lot of airplanes between Vegas and California. Vegas and SoCal both offer great service to transient VFR pilots, with the minor exception maybe being Vegas will try hard to keep you out of their Bravo... it just gets too crowded in the valley with airliners descending into and coming up out of Vegas at certain times of the day and night.
 
will44s said:
Flight planning a trip to southern Ca next month and it feels like it is walled in by restricted airspace with one doorway. Doesn't help that the opening is blocked by Las Vegas Bravo and grand canyon special flight rules. I trained in Socal and never really noticed this huge blockade across the east. Is there a trick I'm missing to avoid long detours?
Click to expand...
@will44s What's your departure and arrival airports
 
Last edited:
As a rant this has a negative rating. The audience doesn’t even notice you’re on stage and even the stage manager is checking text messages. All I can suggest to this novice ranter is that they find a day job and leave the ranting to the pros.
 
will44s said:
Flight planning a trip to southern Ca next month and it feels like it is walled in by restricted airspace with one doorway. Doesn't help that the opening is blocked by Las Vegas Bravo and grand canyon special flight rules. I trained in Socal and never really noticed this huge blockade across the east. Is there a trick I'm missing to avoid long detours?
Click to expand...

Are you NORDO? I'm not seeing the huge problem. You can go over or under the Class B without talking to anyone, or through it just by asking. Unless you're going to conflict with other traffic, you'll get cleared through it. There's lots of restricted airspace, but it's not always active and can be used normally when it's not. Check with the controlling agency.
 
I think I'll purchase the grand canyon chart and stay east and south of Vegas. Drop down to Twenty nine palms area, then west into socal, L35. I wanted to avoid the bravo area, living in Wy hasn't been conducive to maintaining my radio skills. edit spelling
 
A lot of military weapons research is done in the deserts of the Southwest.

The restricted airspace is full of lots of fast-flying metal and things that go BOOM. You don't want to be inside of it.

It gets your attention when the ATC controller is assigning clearances to bomb areas to the military planes while you're flying near that airspace.

Have fun and don't get dead.
 
How did I miss going over the top :) I really was ignorant earlier, so many options the more I look. Really wish the plane didn't have pipettes for fuel tanks, seems two fuel stops needed.
 
Rgbeard said:
The restricted airspace is full of lots of fast-flying metal and things that go BOOM. You don't want to be inside of it.
Click to expand...

Correct, you do not want to be in a restricted area when it is active. Just ask, if it isn't active you may be allowed through the airspace. Except for White Sands.
 
will44s said:
I think I'll purchase the grand canyon chart and stay east and south of Vegas. Drop down to Twenty nine palms area, then west into socal, L35. I wanted to avoid the bravo area, living in Wy hasn't been conducive to maintaining my radio skills. edit spelling
Click to expand...
That Chart will be dated 2001. There have been some changes, they are around page 385 of the Southwest Chart Supplement. There are a couple airports deleted and an altitude change on one of the routes. Like you said just above you'll probably just go over the top anyway. Depending on conditions, especially the wind, coming in from the East over TNP could be the bumpier way to go. Over HEC from the North East may be a better option. Even though R2501 is published as Continuous there are frequent airspace releases on it. Get flight following if you can. The Hector Sector Vector Director will know whats hot and what ain't.
 
Pilawt said:
And except for the central Nevada R-areas.
Click to expand...

Noted.

There is a restricted area near Gallup that gets ignored by almost everyone. It even has an airway through it. The airspace goes hot about once every 5 years. The area on the ground was used to store military ammunition for many years. A lot of the bunkers are still around. Now it is used for occasional missile launches sending a missile to the White Sands area, either to be shot down or be evaluated by missile scientist.
 
I seem to remember following the powerlines on a Vegas to Barstow run (near the interstate). Under the powerlines is a motocross course (not sure if it is still open). Steve McQueen used to run it on his Triumph. Or just follow the interstate. From there go to Palmdale and you are around all the restricted areas and can get into LA (get flight following or file IFR into that area is a requirement unless you are very familiar). Or go north up the coast, central valley, wherever you wanna go. California is a great place to fly.
 
Have a good trip! Heads up for sightseeing traffic between Vegas and the Grand Canyon if you head over Lake Mead.

You might've already checked this out, but Big Bear has some pretty specific approaches/departures for noise abatement. Scroll down to the bottom for neat animation of these.

bigbearcityairport.com

Try Thelma's Family Restaurant, right off Hwy 18, only about a quarter mile walk from the terminal. The restaurant at the airport is pretty good too.

Rgbeard said:
Check this out.... It's our restricted airspace information just done in a little more friendly way than our sectionals.

Kinda gives you a little pause, and some "WTF" when you look at the Southwest corner.

http://www.29palms.marines.mil/Portals/56/Docs/G5/Regional_Special_Use_Airspace_Map.pdf
Click to expand...

That's useful. Lots of ways through/around these areas if you study 'em a bit!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top