My flight instructor says I'm complex...

Hate to bust a bubble, but a complex endorsement is about the dumbest "endorsement" I have seen. 1 hr dual. Any more than that and you are getting milked by the CFI. I consider it about on par with learning how to use the self serve pump.
 
Unit74 said:
Hate to bust a bubble, but a complex endorsement is about the dumbest "endorsement" I have seen. 1 hr dual. Any more than that and you are getting milked by the CFI. I consider it about on par with learning how to use the self serve pump.
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4.5 for me, most just pattern work, and yes we did touch and gos till I was saying GUMPs in my sleep.
 
Mine was about 3 hours. Intro flight, flight to do slow flight and emergency procedures, and then a checkout which we did last night where I basically flew as PIC and he just acted as a helper (changed transponder codes, watched for traffic, etc) like stuff a normal passenger could do.
 
Unit74 said:
Hate to bust a bubble, but a complex endorsement is about the dumbest "endorsement" I have seen. 1 hr dual. Any more than that and you are getting milked by the CFI. I consider it about on par with learning how to use the self serve pump.
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Yeah yeah, that story, and you probably soloed in like, what? 1.2hrs?

It’s not the most....complex thing ;)

But real world I doubt I’ve signed anyone off with a lean 1.0 in the logs and it does take a little to get it to sing properly, like smooth transition from cruise to a straight in where you’re dropping gear, flaps etc in the right order for speed reduction, crossing the numbers with the prop full forward and the whole time not having the analyzer screaming “CLD” or hearing or feeling much difference in the prop, etc etc
 
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25 for me. Okay, full disclosure: that was the insurance requirement. Can't be sure how long it would have taken otherwise, but somewhere in the 1 to 5 range sounds about right.
 
azure said:
25 for me. Okay, full disclosure: that was the insurance requirement. Can't be sure how long it would have taken otherwise, but somewhere in the 1 to 5 range sounds about right.
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Well I can't fly the plane solo for another 20-ish hours, but that's a total time requirement. I can get those in one of the 152's.
 
No, certainly did not. Average time I'm sure

For the HP/Complex Spent 30 on the ground talking, 1 hour flying. It is a silly endorsement to begin with. I will say, just use a damn checklist for everything. there is a flow for everything. Like nike says, just do it.

James331 said:
Yeah yeah, that story, and you probably soloed in like, what? 1.2hrs?

It’s not the most....complex rating ;)

But real world I doubt I’ve signed anyone off with a lean 1.0 in the logs and it does take a little to get it to sing properly, like smooth transition from cruise to a straight in where you’re dropping gear, flaps etc in the right order for speed reduction, crossing the numbers with the prop full forward and the whole time not having the analyzer screaming “CLD” or hearing or feeling much difference in the prop, etc etc
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LoLPilot said:
Well I can't fly the plane solo for another 20-ish hours, but that's a total time requirement. I can get those in one of the 152's.
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can u 'splain this? can't fly which plane, the complex until 20? any of their planes until 20 solo? I hope you're not saying the place wants you to get 20+ hours of dual before u can fly any of their planes solo...……..
 
eman1200 said:
can u 'splain this? can't fly which plane, the complex until 20? any of their planes until 20 solo? I hope you're not saying the place wants you to get 20+ hours of dual before u can fly any of their planes solo...……..
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No no it's a total time requirement. They want 100 hours total before you can take anything with retractable gear and a CS prop up solo. I have about 80. And 150 or 200 before taking the 182 solo.
 
LoLPilot said:
No no it's a total time requirement. They want 100 hours total before you can take anything with retractable gear and a CS prop up solo. I have about 80. And 150 or 200 before taking the 182 solo.
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ah, gotcha, thanks.
 
Congrats on the complex. And a few hours with an instructor to get the endorsement is reasonable. One hour is not.
 
Thanks guys! It was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed doing the endorsement. I'm not as "smooth" with the RG as I'd like to be. Like on approach my instructor was showing me how to use the prop as a sort of aerodynamic brake while we were at low power and the change in the feel of the plane was barely perceptible. When I drop gear or change prop settings you can DEFINITELY feel that I did something with it. I'm also amazed by how differently the plane handles gear up vs gear down. To me at least, it feels a lot more stable with the landing gear DOWN which surprised me because of the extra drag.
 
Back in the 80's my favorite trick was to have the student look to the left and then I would pull the gear CB. I think the students noticed it 75% of the time. It made a big impression on all of them. I personally do not move my hand off the gear selector until it is all the way up or down.

A lot of pilots do not make sure the gear is up. A Falcon 20 that I flew years ago would not close one of the gear doors some times. A Cessna 340 I fly had a problem that the gear would not retract sometimes. It turned out to be a squat switch problem.
 
Plano Pilot said:
Back in the 80's my favorite trick was to have the student look to the left and then I would pull the gear CB. I think the students noticed it 75% of the time. It made a big impression on all of them. I personally do not move my hand off the gear selector until it is all the way up or down.

A lot of pilots do not make sure the gear is up. A Falcon 20 that I flew years ago would not close one of the gear doors some times. A Cessna 340 I fly had a problem that the gear would not retract sometimes. It turned out to be a squat switch problem.
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^That

What got me the most OCD about gear position was getting into amphibs, scraping the bejesus out of a bo is one thing, landing gear down on a remote lake in a amphib can easily be the last thing you do on this earth




Unit74 said:
No, certainly did not. Average time I'm sure

For the HP/Complex Spent 30 on the ground talking, 1 hour flying. It is a silly endorsement to begin with. I will say, just use a damn checklist for everything. there is a flow for everything. Like nike says, just do it.
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Personally I think once you have flying a complex down and can make it sing, the the single engine to multi engine being a actual check ride is silly, for me that one was basically read the poh, demo loosing a engine and done and vmc and that’s that. Compared to tailwheel I just don’t get the hype

Oh and the high performance, that just needs to go away, or make it a power to weight ratio
 
Unit74 said:
Hate to bust a bubble, but a complex endorsement is about the dumbest "endorsement" I have seen. 1 hr dual. Any more than that and you are getting milked by the CFI. I consider it about on par with learning how to use the self serve pump.
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Voice of ignorance speaketh loudly. The only thing wrong with the ten I got transitioning into my Mooney was it wasn’t twenty. I felt completely behind the airplane for the first ten hours after I got cut loose. And with some extra training I might not have wound up with that prop strike.
 
James331 said:
^That

What got me the most OCD about gear position was getting into amphibs, scraping the bejesus out of a bo is one thing, landing gear down on a remote lake in a amphib can easily be the last thing you do on this earth






Personally I think once you have flying a complex down and can make it sing, the the single engine to multi engine being a actual check ride is silly, for me that one was basically read the poh, demo loosing a engine and done and vmc and that’s that. Compared to tailwheel I just don’t get the hype

Oh and the high performance, that just needs to go away, or make it a power to weight ratio
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Yeah I'm going to do HiPo next (currently doing my t/w as well). Even my instructor said the HiPo is we talk about shock cooling and then go fly the pattern til you're comfortable with the speed. I do think it's odd that the basic wording of the endorsement implies "hey you can fly a 182RG and a 140? Cool you can fly a Texan or a Stearman too!
 
LoLPilot said:
Yeah I'm going to do HiPo next (currently doing my t/w as well). Even my instructor said the HiPo is we talk about shock cooling and then go fly the pattern til you're comfortable with the speed. I do think it's odd that the basic wording of the endorsement implies "hey you can fly a 182RG and a 140? Cool you can fly a Texan or a Stearman too!
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For me it’s more the idocracy that a 182 or Dakota with 201HP is high performance, but that 180hp short wing glasair or 180hp supercub is not.
 
James331 said:
For me it’s more the idocracy that a 182 or Dakota with 201HP is high performance, but that 180hp short wing glasair or 180hp supercub is not.
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There is no 201 horsepower Dakota. The PA-28-201T Turbo Dakota is 200 HP. The “1” on the horsepower suffix denotes having tapered wings. The horsepower remains at 200. This goes for other Pipers as well - a PA-28R-201 is a 200 horsepower Arrow with tapered wings.
 
Ryanb said:
Always somebody that has to spoil someone else’s fun.

Congratulations on the endorsement!
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Thanks man and it's ok! I know these endorsements (other than tailwheel) are not big ordeals like new ratings. I just thought it would be cool to get thoughts from other guys on flying complex a/c because I have all of 4.3 hours in them now.
 
LoLPilot said:
Thanks man and it's ok! I know these endorsements (other than tailwheel) are not big ordeals like new ratings. I just thought it would be cool to get thoughts from other guys on flying complex a/c because I have all of 4.3 hours in them now.
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Heck, it’s cool to me! You can now go from flying a 150 to a Bonanza if you wish. Of course that’s given that you have your HP.

:)
 
ateamer said:
There is no 201 horsepower Dakota. The PA-28-201T Turbo Dakota is 200 HP. The “1” on the horsepower suffix denotes having tapered wings. The horsepower remains at 200. This goes for other Pipers as well - a PA-28R-201 is a 200 horsepower Arrow with tapered wings.
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I’m saying 201hp as that’s the requirement for high performance, perhaps I should have said >201HP
 
Did my complex/high performance at the same time in a 182RG. 1.1 hours.
 
BrianNC said:
Did my complex/high performance at the same time in a 182RG. 1.1 hours.
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James thinks that's not possible. What are you trying to do, tell,him he is wrong?
 
Ryanb said:
Always somebody that has to spoil someone else’s fun.

Congratulations on the endorsement!
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You must be new to PoA..... welcome. Now get in line! o_O
 
steingar said:
Voice of ignorance speaketh loudly. The only thing wrong with the ten I got transitioning into my Mooney was it wasn’t twenty. I felt completely behind the airplane for the first ten hours after I got cut loose. And with some extra training I might not have wound up with that prop strike.
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Right.... because all pilots are also slow as you are.......
 
Ryanb said:
Huh? :dunno:

Do you have anything intelligent to contribute to this discussion or would you rather belittle one’s accomplishment and put other people down?
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Truth is a stinky cologne....... so people need participation awards I guess.

I landed without crashing today...... and there was water on the windscreen. Can I get some congratulations? Seems to be some sort of accomplishment by your standards.
 
Unit74 said:
Truth is a stinky cologne....... so people need participation awards I guess.

I landed without crashing today...... and there was water on the windscreen. Can I get some congratulations? Seems to be some sort of accomplishment by your standards.
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We just try to play nice around here. I’m glad you feel superior to everyone else, but you haven’t proven a single thing.

From the RoC:

Goals of the Forums
  • Show respect at all times.
  • Help build the Community.
 
James331 said:
^That

What got me the most OCD about gear position was getting into amphibs, scraping the bejesus out of a bo is one thing, landing gear down on a remote lake in a amphib can easily be the last thing you do on this earth


A friend of mine lost his girl friend in this accident. The pilot landed with the wheels down in a float plane.




Float plane LL.jpg
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@LoLPilot, sounds like your instructor spent enough time on your endorsement to possibly ensure that you were at least somewhat proficient in operating a complex aircraft and not merely just barely capable. That would appear to be more in line with the intent of the regulation.

61.31
e) Additional training required for operating complex airplanes.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (e)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a complex airplane, unless the person has—

(i) Received and logged ground and flight training from an authorized instructor in a complex airplane, or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of a complex airplane, and has been found proficient in the operation and systems of the airplane;

Good for both of you.
 
Good for you,the only one you have to please is yourself.
 
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