My favorite question on the BasicMed Application

SkyHog

SkyHog

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Has to be question 18j - "Kidney Stone or Blood in Urine." it feels good to check that box and be able to rely on someone actually qualified to determine whether that is impactful to my ability to fly without having to consult someone in OKC who pretends to understand aeromedical concerns...

Spoiler alert - 10/10 (good) doctors agree - having a kidney stone, as painful as it is, is not something to permanently ground someone. Thank god for BasicMed!
 
I can’t speak to your case, but I had a kidney stone and had zero problems getting my medical renewed.
 
My favorite (not) is the BasicMed anus evaluation

BasicMed page 8, question 9
 
Scrabo said:
Not BasicMed but it has to be question 46.c on the INS paperwork for green cards

46.c. Engage in any activity whose purpose includes opposing, controlling, or overthrowing the U.S. Government by force, violence, or other unlawful means while in the
United States?"

Who in their right mind would answer "Yes" to that question
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And how does that medically interfere with aircraft operation?
 
SkyHog said:
Has to be question 18j - "Kidney Stone or Blood in Urine." it feels good to check that box and be able to rely on someone actually qualified to determine whether that is impactful to my ability to fly without having to consult someone in OKC who pretends to understand aeromedical concerns...

Spoiler alert - 10/10 (good) doctors agree - having a kidney stone, as painful as it is, is not something to permanently ground someone. Thank god for BasicMed!
Click to expand...

I would say, having had a kidney stone, shouldn’t ground you. At least not in the ureter. Not sure if you have some up in the kidney. Does the FAA make you get rid of them for a class 3?

Edit, oh you said permanently ground, no I agree.
 
Rushie said:
I would say, having had a kidney stone, shouldn’t ground you. At least not in the ureter. Not sure if you have some up in the kidney. Does the FAA make you get rid of them for a class 3?

Edit, oh you said permanently ground, no I agree.
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Long story short, I had a series of stones I passed and then one that wouldn't pass (or would pass but by the time I got more imaging another came behind it).

Couldn't get my medical until I could show I was stone free. Then BasicMed passed and I got my wings back. Haven't had any problems since.

I took a few years off and my BasicMed expired. Just refilled out the paperwork and saw that question again and cheered again inside like it was the mid 2010s all over again
 
The FAA considers kidney stones potentially debilitating. If you have more than one, they believe you are a pain factory waiting to explode.

You can show that you are stone free by the same test that found the stone - KUB or ultrasound ($$$$) usually. You can also show that the stones are not moving. I think there is a third option to identify and correct the cause of the stones.
 
bflynn said:
The FAA considers kidney stones potentially debilitating. If you have more than one, they believe you are a pain factory waiting to explode.

You can show that you are stone free by the same test that found the stone - KUB or ultrasound ($$$$) usually. You can also show that the stones are not moving. I think there is a third option to identify and correct the cause of the stones.
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Or you can go BasicMed and have a qualified doctor weigh in on it instead of someone in OKC that has no qualifications to make such a determination.
 
Of course you can go basicmed, that is the thesis of this thread. But there was a question about why the FAA is so particular about kidney stones.

A FAA report published in 2004 studied airline pilot incapacitation between 1993 and 1998. They found 34 cases of incapacitation, 3 of which were attributed to kidney stones. Not every case of kidney stones is a problem, but larger stones can be debilitating.

https://www.faa.gov/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/oamtechreports/2000s/media/0416.pdf
 
bflynn said:
The FAA considers kidney stones potentially debilitating. If you have more than one, they believe you are a pain factory waiting to explode.

You can show that you are stone free by the same test that found the stone - KUB or ultrasound ($$$$) usually. You can also show that the stones are not moving. I think there is a third option to identify and correct the cause of the stones.
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They also consider heartburn debilitating, too. (I'm supposed to self ground if I get heartburn - one of the conditions of my medical being issued.)And so is taking immodium. So I don't put much stock in their opinion.
 
So in a 5 year period with an accumulated total of what 100 million flight hours there were 3 occurrences? Given the size of GA vs commercial, the odds of this happening would be ………. Close to zero.

I’m comfortable with those odds
 
redhounds said:
Imodium isn't a problem for the FAA until you exceed 16 mg a day. At higher doses, it can have opioid type effects. The FDA recommended limiting package sizes of loperamide years ago due to the abuse potential and risk of death at high doses. I don't say it often, but the FAA is right. https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safe...edicine-loperamide-imodium-encourage-safe-use
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Directions on the OTC bottle: No more than 4 a day at 2mg/pill. Maybe my math is bad, but 4 x 2 is less than 16.
 
EdFred said:
Directions on the OTC bottle: No more than 4 a day at 2mg/pill. Maybe my math is bad, but 4 x 2 is less than 16.
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Correct. If you take loperamide at the normal max OTC dose (8mg/day) or the max RX dose (16mg/day) the FAA doesn't have a problem with it. As you increase the dose above 16mg/day, bad things happen and you shouldn't be flying. As I said before "Imodium isn't a problem for the FAA until you exceed 16 mg a day."
 
redhounds said:
Correct. If you take loperamide at the normal max OTC dose (8mg/day) or the max RX dose (16mg/day) the FAA doesn't have a problem with it. As you increase the dose above 16mg/day, bad things happen and you shouldn't be flying. As I said before "Imodium isn't a problem for the FAA until you exceed 16 mg a day."
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Correct. My naproxen is the same way. OTC bottle says max dose in 24 hours is less than when my doctor gives me the prescription version. 660mg vs 1000mg if memory serves. The Imodium difference is double but I wouldn’t expect that ratio to always be the same. The idea is the doctor knows your whole health picture whereas OTC is conservative because any idiot can buy them.
 
redhounds said:
Correct. If you take loperamide at the normal max OTC dose (8mg/day) or the max RX dose (16mg/day) the FAA doesn't have a problem with it. As you increase the dose above 16mg/day, bad things happen and you shouldn't be flying. As I said before "Imodium isn't a problem for the FAA until you exceed 16 mg a day."
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The FAA may have changed that, because the last time I checked it was an absolute no, but it's been a couple years.

https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/medical-resources/search-faa-medication-database

shows the limitation now, but I know the last time I checked it was a definitive no - although that may have been a mistake on the site I saw it on as well.
 
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I wonder why we don't see threads questioning why this exact same question is on the application for a medical certificate.
 
Palmpilot said:
I wonder why we don't see threads questioning why this exact same question is on the application for a medical certificate.
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Because we don't notice it. It's part of the exam, not the application. We don't look at it the way we do the BasicMed app. The AME guide says it doesn't have to be a physical exam and most AMEs don't do a physical exam,
 
SkyHog said:
Has to be question 18j - "Kidney Stone or Blood in Urine." it feels good to check that box and be able to rely on someone actually qualified to determine whether that is impactful to my ability to fly without having to consult someone in OKC who pretends to understand aeromedical concerns...

Spoiler alert - 10/10 (good) doctors agree - having a kidney stone, as painful as it is, is not something to permanently ground someone. Thank god for BasicMed!
Click to expand...
Having a kidney stone isn't the issue; it's the propensity to have them. My nephew nearly crashed his car when he had one; apparently the pain can be excruciating and debilitating, if only for a short while.
 
In fact, most of the CMEC is copied from the AME side of the medical application/MedExpress stuff.
 
WDD said:
So in a 5 year period with an accumulated total of what 100 million flight hours there were 3 occurrences? Given the size of GA vs commercial, the odds of this happening would be ………. Close to zero.

I’m comfortable with those odds
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Or said another way using that same logic - In 5 years, there were only 34 occurrences. Why should we worry about any of them?

If you think about the situations, we probably should be more worried about single pilot operations than dual. If the odds of a problem are 1 in 100,000 then the chances of both pilots having it happen is 1 in 10 billion, unless they both eat the fish. The chances of a single pilot having a 1 in 100,000 problem is 1 in 100,000 and it's much more likely your loved ones will be on the flight.
 
Tantalum said:
My favorite (not) is the BasicMed anus evaluation

BasicMed page 8, question 9
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This right here is why I'll be taking my chances with the FAA and renewing my third class, despite holding an SI for a mental illness.
 
Anonymous said:
This right here is why I'll be taking my chances with the FAA and renewing my third class, despite holding an SI for a mental illness.
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You don't want a doctor looking at your butthole and saying "yep, it's there?"

Seems like an odd reason to risk losing your flying privileges forever...
 
SkyHog said:
You don't want a doctor looking at your butthole and saying "yep, it's there?"

Seems like an odd reason to risk losing your flying privileges forever...
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Maybe it's not, and that's the reason he's not taking the chance?
 
My favorite question was from my doctor asking me if there was anything else he could do for me after signing the approval.
 
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EdFred said:
Maybe it's not, and that's the reason he's not taking the chance?
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Hilarious, but remember some pilots are women, and some women don't like being put in a vulnerable position for a check that has absolutely no bearing on their ability to fly and isn't even done by AME's. I've been assaulted by a doctor before, so yes, I will take my chances with an AME and the FAA before I let a doctor check my anus for BasicMed.
 
There's no guarantee that an AME won't check it, since it is on the list that they use.

Maybe you could bring along someone you trust to be in the room with you during the exam.
 
My AME for many years was also a proctologist. A medical included a compulsory hernia check :rolleyes:
 
Palmpilot said:
There's no guarantee that an AME won't check it, since it is on the list that they use.

Maybe you could bring along someone you trust to be in the room with you during the exam.
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I've had 15+ exams by an AME. Never disrobed. Was only ever touched to listen to my heart. And you're saying it's ok for a doctor to check my anus?
 
Hi, Anonymous,

Anonymous said:
I've been assaulted by a doctor before, so yes, I will take my chances with an AME and the FAA before I let a doctor check my anus for BasicMed.
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I am so sorry that happened to you. I can't begin to fathom the impact... So I respect your choice -- especially if you've got an AME who have worked with in the past and who you trust. Or, even if you just trust the "3rd class process", because you've been through it before and it's familiar. That's okay too.

Just food for thought... a lot of AME's also do BasicMed, and basically do the same style exam as they would for a 3rd. I did my BasicMed last week (from an AME) and did not have to disrobe either. The BasicMed experience depends entirely on the physician, so they can be very different.

Regardless of whether a doctor looks at your anus or not, going to see a physician should never -- NEVER, for ANYONE! -- be the kind of experience where you "take your chances" that he or she might do something unwanted to you. And we -- patients -- can (and should!) make our needs known, and get questions asked, before the exam starts. "Will I need to disrobe?" "Can I bring a second person into the room?" If these questions matter, ask them. Any doctor that evades answering, or does not answer to your satisfaction, you thank for their time and find a different one.

Getting medical care is one of the most important things we can do in our lives. Most of us need it eventually, for something. Like any working machine, we require maintenance. So it's important that doctors be professional, trustworthy, and respectful of our needs. All that being said, it's just as important that we --patients -- learn to navigate their services, in the interests of our own health. Yes, it can be humiliating at times -- especially in the LadyPart domain. But speaking as someone who has had a pretty long list of Humiliating LadyPart Medical Procedures over the decades, I can tell you that a routine pelvic exam / mammogram / rectal exam / colonoscopy sucks less --- way less, by orders of magnitude! -- than cancer.

Take care of yourself out there,
 
Kidney stones can indeed be disabling. Supposed to be the most painful thing a man can suffer (for a woman that would be childbirth) and yes, they do indeed run in my family. I drink copious quantities of liquid to keep those things at bay.

Nice to see you back Nick, nice to hear you're back in the air.
 
Anonymous said:
I've had 15+ exams by an AME. Never disrobed. Was only ever touched to listen to my heart.
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I guess I've had about 12 AME exams. My anus was not checked during any of my medical-certificate exams, nor was it checked during the one BasicMed exam that I've had (which was also done by an AME). I don't remember whether I have had to disrobe for any of the exams or not.

And you're saying it's ok for a doctor to check my anus?
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I have no idea whether it's OK or not. All I know is that it's on the list for both types of exam.
 
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