MSFS2020 Disappointment thread

Mtns2Skies said:
In FSX you could file IFR flight plans and be put in the ATC system. Additionally there were maps and so forth to help plan the flight and execute it. None of that infrastructure exists in MSflight without 3rd party add-ons.
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I’d never trust in-game ATC, anyway. Plan everything using ForeFlight or SkyVector, or if you’re into the airline thing, SimBrief. Use VATSIM for ATC, TDS GTN750 or the free Working Title updates to the G1000, and it’s even more robust than the previous versions. I’m having a blast in between RW flights that are getting incredibly expensive.
 
ATC woes aside, the sim is much better than when it launched and it continues to get better as all the third-party devs get deeper access to the SDKs. I’m also impressed that MS/Asobo continue to commit to improving things at the request of the community - 10 world and 9.5 sim updates in.
 
I find the biggest downfall is the lack of continuity from previous versions. A completely remapped keyboard layout and UI, and then the lack of being able to use it like an actual sim with ease of dual monitors, independent windows with functionality, etc.

While overseas, I literally taught myself everything I needed to know for my instrument rating pretty much with FS2004 and a payware Baron 58 with reality xp530. Everything from ILS to NDB Holds…. I doubt with any luck you could even remotely do that in todays sim with any ease.
 
Man, I went down the rabbit hole again and decided to buy a separate SDD to use for MSFS2020 and any other game I want to run, lol. I've got a 250GB m.2 SSD for the operating system, and a 1TB HDD for general media storage. I decided for $85 another 1TB SSD to keep the 120GB of MSFS on will keep things separate and avoid eating up space on the HDD. Getting another SSD should be plug-n-play via SATA, but I don't know that it will have any appreciable impact on game play vs the HDD with spinning platters. Maybe run a bit quieter, but I doubt I'd be able to tell once the fans on the GPU start going.

Skymac said:
I find the biggest downfall is the lack of continuity from previous versions. A completely remapped keyboard layout and UI, and then the lack of being able to use it like an actual sim with ease of dual monitors, independent windows with functionality, etc.

While overseas, I literally taught myself everything I needed to know for my instrument rating pretty much with FS2004 and a payware Baron 58 with reality xp530. Everything from ILS to NDB Holds…. I doubt with any luck you could even remotely do that in todays sim with any ease.
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Reportedly, the multiple display stuff is currently available in an experimental mode/Beta version that they are getting community input back on. Many have gotten it to work really well with 3 monitor setups, but mainly with the in-cockpit view. I think there's some difficulty getting the aspect ratio/POV correct depending on how you have your monitors arranged and how large the bezels are. However, I think with the push toward VR, it may be less of a concern for some.
 
Skymac said:
I find the biggest downfall is the lack of continuity from previous versions. A completely remapped keyboard layout and UI, and then the lack of being able to use it like an actual sim with ease of dual monitors, independent windows with functionality, etc.

While overseas, I literally taught myself everything I needed to know for my instrument rating pretty much with FS2004 and a payware Baron 58 with reality xp530. Everything from ILS to NDB Holds…. I doubt with any luck you could even remotely do that in todays sim with any ease.
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I would argue that it’s incredibly easily to practice IFR radio-nav procedures in the sim. RNAV is trickier unless you have good third-party GPS (including the aforementioned Working Title stuff, which is free). The toughest part to do while keeping it free is getting all the current AIRAC updates. With all the changes being made to VOR frequencies every cycle (due to consolidation from the VOR MON program), the stock sim does get a bit behind.

Edit: a Navigraph Navdata subscription is probably the single-most important add-on for IFR sim realism. Ultimate gets you the navdata and worldwide Jepp charts (sim use only).
 
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Flying Keys said:
I would argue that it’s incredibly easily to practice IFR radio-nav procedures in the sim. RNAV is trickier unless you have good third-party GPS (including the aforementioned Working Title stuff, which is free). The toughest part to do while keeping it free is getting all the current AIRAC updates. With all the changes being made to VOR frequencies every cycle (due to consolidation from the VOR MON program), the stock sim does get a bit behind.

Edit: a Navigraph Navdata subscription is probably the single-most important add-on for IFR sim realism. Ultimate gets you the navdata and worldwide Jepp charts (sim use only).
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I’m mostly talking about not being able to easily drag the nav radios into a second monitor with buttons, etc. The database updates are not a big issue at all. The days of the 2d panels are much easier to do that with, I think anyway.
 
Alright, so I got MSFS downloaded (5hr download ~130GB, lol). I unboxed the Honeycomb Alpha/Bravo flight controls and took a couple of spins in the "scenic tour" flights and one in the local airport. Game ran flawlessly and the imagery and detail were extremely impressive. I don't play other video games so my frame of reference is a bit skewed, but the environmental aspect of the game was amazing. I need to familiarize myself with the button/control assignments, but the Alpha/Bravo setup was plug-n-play (aside from installing Better Bravo Lights plug-in) and control movements were smooth and predictable. I only flew one of the stock C172 aircraft, but the roll rates and pitch response seemed close-enough (maybe a tad slow) to the real thing that I wouldn't quibble about it. The AI ATC worked well enough for what it is, basic requests and standard responses were simple to execute. I probably spent less than an hour toying with it, but I really liked what I saw so far. It's not enough time to really identify any faults in the game, but I'm sure I'll notice those idiosyncrasies eventually.

First thing I noticed is that when starting MSFS, the graphics card fans immediately spool up, lol. Sounded like an aircraft run-up for a second!
 
For all the complaints about it, I did have a moment on final into Teterboro where I stopped seeing a simulation. It felt like being on final for real. Then I reached the threshold and the moment was over because there is no depth perception.
 
bflynn said:
For all the complaints about it, I did have a moment on final into Teterboro where I stopped seeing a simulation. It felt like being on final for real. Then I reached the threshold and the moment was over because there is no depth perception.
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Yup, always going to be a problem without a full-3D immersion environment. VR may help some of that, but I could imagine that the graphics hardware requirements for that type of detail in 3D @ 4K resolution would be enormous. It'll probably be commonplace in another 20 years!
 
It's gaining popularity rapidly. The first gen headsets just didn't have the display resolution to really complete the illusion. The current ones are way better, and there are a couple more designs coming out in the near future, coupled with the next-gen graphics cards coming out the end of this year, should make for a very convincing VR experience. It's the sole reason I'm planning to get a 4090 Ti card when it comes out, because I intend to couple it with a high-end VR headset, too.
 
I'm new to this forum and was compelled to vent my ultimate frustration with MSFS on the Xbox X console. I started this adventure last year in February, originally on PC,(bought a *new* PC just for it) and that turned out to be nothing but frustration and heartache. I needed a *new* PC anyway so it wasn't a total waste. That said, I got wind that the Xbox version of MSFS was better and the graphics were just click "HDR" on or off so I jumped at it, less is more for me. After signing up for the forum and venting my how upset I was with it months later I was banned (they don't want to hear your opinion from paying customers). So I kept up my reading on the forum to stay abreast of what was going on. Now for my venting: I am so frustrated with this Xbox console and MSFS SIM and all the issues I've encountered in the last year and the issues that persist after each and every update or patch, no words (including every colorful metaphor known to man) can describe what I'd like to tell ASOBO and Microsoft. I came very close tonight to disassembling the console (with a hammer) and sending it back to Microsoft with a colorful metaphoric letter. I just can't believe that this product is on the market and people have stuck with it thus far. Its an absolutely abhorrent piece of software that doesn't deserve to be called a flight simulator. Its garbage period ! How did I let myself be fooled by it. MSFS is nothing but a simulator "GAME" with fancy eye candy nothing more. Now, in the interim through it all I discovered Aero Fly FS2 and now FS4, I even bought the thrustmaster flight controls for it. With Xbox, I was flying with a game controller as I felt MSFS on Xbox wasn't worthy or deserving of flight controls because I was so upset with it. But Aero Fly, OMG, talk about a simple, just works flawlessly without any hassles' and the flight dynamics have been impeccably recreated and so realistic. Those Europeans (IPACS Germany) know exactly what they are doing and have done it properly. Aero Fly is now my main SIM, I have packed up my Xbox console permanently and may put it up for sale as I'm so done with MSFS and MS. So unbelievable the level of imcompetance that was built into MSFS. So uber disappointing.
 
I tried X-plane and I prefer Aero Fly as I feel the 3D scenery is better. The realistic flight dynamics is so much better. I'm staying with Aero Fly as it suits my casual flying needs. I only fly the A320, F-18, UH-60 Blackhawk and EC-135 exclusively. Love it !
 
MSFS 2020 sucked when it launched and for a year or so. Now, I find it pretty good, comparable to Xplane11/12, although I prefer the UI in xplane.
Flight dynamics in MSFS2020 are actually not bad, IMHO.
Now, I think you can't compare MSFS 2020 played with a game controller to another sim played with Thrustmaster controls... I played it on Xbox myself and I can't barely keep the plane flying... More of a game to see beautiful scenery. On PC, it does just fine.
 
I actually had no issues using the game controller. I really enjoyed it and loved how comfortable it felt in my hands. Might I add that I fly RC Heli's for a hobby so holding an RC transmitter or game controller is a non issue for me.
 
Guebe65 said:
The realistic flight dynamics is so much better
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the A320, F-18, UH-60 Blackhawk and EC-135
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ROTFL

I suppose you are the one person on earth with experience flying all of those in real life to be able to judge their "realistic flight dynamics". ;)
 
Guebe65 said:
I tried X-plane and I prefer Aero Fly as I feel the 3D scenery is better. The realistic flight dynamics is so much better. I'm staying with Aero Fly as it suits my casual flying needs. I only fly the A320, F-18, UH-60 Blackhawk and EC-135 exclusively. Love it !
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You don't happen to be the guy who was mad at his wife because she doesn't introduce you as a pilot to her friends?
 
******I suppose you are the one person on earth with experience flying all of those in real life to be able to judge their "realistic flight dynamics****

Nope, can't explain it, its just a feel, I've wanted to be a "real" pilot since I was a kid, all my toys were flying toys. Later on (in my 20's), flying RC just came natural to me, I didn't have much difficulty with it when I started with planes and graduated to RC Heli's (in 2007). I'm also a natural born drummer too, didn't have to work at it once I went from pipe band snare drumming to a full kit in my youth (12 years old onward). I drive for a living, 40+ years accident free, I was tested and I have excellent spatial perception and possess really good situational awareness. I'm not trying to blow my horn here, so don't get me wrong, I'm just stating facts of my life and who I am. I have a feel thing for operating stuff and things.

*****You don't happen to be the guy who was mad at his wife because she doesn't introduce you as a pilot to her friends?******

Nope !
 
Guebe65 said:
******I suppose you are the one person on earth with experience flying all of those in real life to be able to judge their "realistic flight dynamics****

Nope, can't explain it, its just a feel, I've wanted to be a "real" pilot since I was a kid, all my toys were flying toys. Later on (in my 20's), flying RC just came natural to me, I didn't have much difficulty with it when I started with planes and graduated to RC Heli's (in 2007). I'm also a natural born drummer too, didn't have to work at it once I went from pipe band snare drumming to a full kit in my youth (12 years old onward). I drive for a living, 40+ years accident free, I was tested and I have excellent spatial perception and possess really good situational awareness. I'm not trying to blow my horn here, so don't get me wrong, I'm just stating facts of my life and who I am. I have a feel thing for operating stuff and things.

*****You don't happen to be the guy who was mad at his wife because she doesn't introduce you as a pilot to her friends?******

Nope !
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Have you flown any real plane?
 
Guebe65 said:
Nope, can't explain it, its just a feel, I've wanted to be a "real" pilot since I was a kid, all my toys were flying toys. Later on (in my 20's), flying RC just came natural to me, I didn't have much difficulty with it when I started with planes and graduated to RC Heli's (in 2007). I'm also a natural born drummer too, didn't have to work at it once I went from pipe band snare drumming to a full kit in my youth (12 years old onward). I drive for a living, 40+ years accident free, I was tested and I have excellent spatial perception and possess really good situational awareness. I'm not trying to blow my horn here, so don't get me wrong, I'm just stating facts of my life and who I am. I have a feel thing for operating stuff and things.
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Oh, good, we need more folks around here that can explain left-turning tendencies and Vmc demonstrations. Welcome aboard!
 
Salty said:
Have you flown any real plane?
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No, but I have been up in a few aircraft. I did however have the opportunity to grab the cyclic stick of a Bell 206 for about 5 mins at a festival because I knew the pilot (long since deseased now). Wasn't anything complicated because I knew a lot about Helicopters, still do for obvious reasons, hobby and all. Heli's are my favorite aircraft since childhood. It all started with my grandmother buying me a pin wheel on a stick. My fasination for something spinning (rotary) was sealed.
 
Vmc..? Same as tip stall recovery on or about 5000 feet.....no....? I'm more versed in Heli's but its a never ending source of learning. Knowledge is power they say. I don't profess to know it all, but I can learn. When it comes to flying in the SIM, its all VFR and instinct and feel if you will. I don't follow any plotted navigation or flight plan. I take a compass heading to my destination, release the brake, juice the throttle, lift the gear and fly. I do use the auto thrust (A320), auto pilot and monitor systems etc. I prefer manual takeoffs and manual landings, no automation. In fact landing is my favorite part. I love the challenge. You might say I like to fly by the seat of my pants so to speak. My favorite place to fly is Europe in the SIM, especially the alps, coming in and out of Innsbruck (my favorite point of destination and departure). I would love to live there. At this point in my life I'm glad I never became a real pilot because its so encopassing, and for me less has always been more. I probably would have been a good pilot, but the call to be one never came (financially speaking). I'm happy doing what I do now for a hobby and it gives me my fix on a daily basis. No regrets.
 
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Other than the sim breaking/not working as it should (I get that), it’s very hard to judge its accuracy and depth if you’re not familiar with all the minutiae of flying. And until it can properly emulate control forces, it’ll never feel quite right. But that goes for any sim. Did you work with the sensitivity settings?
 
I tweaked the game controller sensitivity settings as per "Marc" from YouTube. Simhangar if im correct..? Other than that nothing else. I'm not using the console anymore just Aero Fly now. I'm using the Captains flight controls from TM. No rudder pedals though. I SOLD them. Couldn't stand having my feet locked on them. I use twist grip for rudder. I only use rudder for take offs and on the ground.
 
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Ya, I have a sorted, weird way of flying, but I get the job done. And its fun in the process, What more can I ask for. It gives me my flying fix. Lets not forget, I'm a casual simmer, not hardcore.
 
Guebe65 said:
Ya, I have a sorted, weird way of flying, but I get the job done. And its fun in the process, What more can I ask for. It gives me my flying fix. Lets not forget, I'm a casual simmer, not hardcore.
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You went from ranting about the flight dynamics feeling incredibly unrealistic (compared to the sim you now like) to saying you are a casual simmer that flies weird. This started out feeling like an ad for the other sim, but now I’m not sure what’s going on.

What part of the flight dynamics did you not like, comparatively, about MSFS?
 
You are aware this forum is targeting actual pilots, right? Not that there's anything wrong with flight simulators, but telling us which one has better flight dynamics, when you aren't a pilot is pretty amusing.
 
Guebe65 said:
I tweaked the game controller sensitivity settings as per "Marc" from YouTube. Simhangar if im correct..? Other than that nothing else. I'm not using the console anymore just Aero Fly now. I'm using the Captains flight controls from TM. No rudder pedals though. I SOLD them. Couldn't stand having my feet locked on them. I use twist grip for rudder. I only use rudder for take offs and on the ground.
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I think we need to hook up @Guebe65 with a CFI willing to take him for a ride or two in a Cub or a 140. :)
 
Guebe65 said:
No rudder pedals though. I SOLD them. Couldn't stand having my feet locked on them. I use twist grip for rudder. I only use rudder for take offs and on the ground.
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Not a fan of conventional gear, huh?
 
I finally got around to building a new PC that can handle the graphics of MSFS2020 and X-Plane without chopping constantly. I have both and have the really annoying step of mapping all the buttons to the yoke/controller next. I'm in IFR ground school right now and plan on taking the written later this month or next; then start flight lessons. I'm a 120 hour PPL at this point, so I feel I have a LOT to learn over the next few years. I'm hoping the software is good enough to practice approaches and holds, at least!

Is there a recommended ATC add-on for either of these? At some point I'll stick to one vs. the other, but right now I'm playing with both to see which is closer to the Archer III I fly regularly.
 
Second hand? I've heard that VATSim is (possibly) good but results will vary depending on who is online.
 
bflynn said:
I did have a moment on final into Teterboro where I stopped seeing a simulation. It felt like being on final for real.
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A little off topic, but I haven't had this happen with MS. A friend of mine retired from SWA a few years ago and on his last day he took me to the simulators. I was disappointed when I walked in, the graphics were terrible. There was a guy walking around on the ramp who looked like a robot. Even when flying, it just looked fake. Then it happened... it was real. I was in weather and popped out on short final... I was sweating and pretty sure I was going to kill everyone onboard!
 
JVerb said:
Is there a recommended ATC add-on for either of these? At some point I'll stick to one vs. the other, but right now I'm playing with both to see which is closer to the Archer III I fly regularly.
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Recommended is PilotEdge, which is a live ATC with other players. You connect your sim to them, turn off ATC on MSFS (which you should do anyway), and talk to their controllers. They're probably more oriented towards IFR and occasionally you can get someone new, but they're trying to use the same phraseology as ATC.

But otherwise, google "atc for msfs 2020" and you'll get about a half million results. PRO-ATC/SR and FSHUD seem to be prominent, but that's no promise of quality.
 
bflynn said:
Recommended is PilotEdge, which is a live ATC with other players. You connect your sim to them, turn off ATC on MSFS (which you should do anyway), and talk to their controllers. They're probably more oriented towards IFR and occasionally you can get someone new, but they're trying to use the same phraseology as ATC.
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I realize this is an old thread, but the service simulates the NAS as much as possible. VFR is supported just as much as IFR. Did something give you the impression that it was oriented more towards IFR? There's a whole series of graded VFR flights here: https://pilotedge.net/pages/cat-ratings
 
coma24 said:
I realize this is an old thread, but the service simulates the NAS as much as possible. VFR is supported just as much as IFR. Did something give you the impression that it was oriented more towards IFR? There's a whole series of graded VFR flights here: https://pilotedge.net/pages/cat-ratings
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Several years ago I flew in the system VFR and every other flight being controlled was IFR.

Sure, there are VFR flights and they're welcome. My experience, they weren't the majority.
 
bflynn said:
Several years ago I flew in the system VFR and every other flight being controlled was IFR.

Sure, there are VFR flights and they're welcome. My experience, they weren't the majority.
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I fly VATSIM pretty often. Certainly majority is large jets flying IFR... but I like to fly VFR and they handle it pretty decently. But don't expect them to have a good understanding of VFR procedures to be honest.
 
Guebe65 said:
No, but I have been up in a few aircraft. I did however have the opportunity to grab the cyclic stick of a Bell 206 for about 5 mins at a festival because I knew the pilot (long since deseased now). Wasn't anything complicated because I knew a lot about Helicopters, still do for obvious reasons, hobby and all. Heli's are my favorite aircraft since childhood. It all started with my grandmother buying me a pin wheel on a stick. My fasination for something spinning (rotary) was sealed.
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:rolleyes:
 
I have both MSFS and X-plane, and I also have Condor 2 which is the definitive Glider/Sailplane sim.

Here’s what MSFS Is great for: practicing visual flying and pilotage with reference to the ground, and realistic terrain/imagery for new/unfamiliar airports. Compared to X-plane the ability to see visual ground presence points is worlds better.

I used it for my practice to Oshkosh, “virtually flew” the Fisk arrival so I’d get a good feel for it.
I know you can see it on Google Maps sat imagery also, but the “feeling” of going thru the procedure helps me prepare for landing at an unfamiliar airport.

I use my VR Headset and the depth perception is a whole-new level of immersion, especially for Condor when I needed to practice visual landing patterns from high-key position. But even without a VR headset, just flying a quick pattern in MSFS at an unfamiliar airport helps me understand the nearby terrain (eg a hill at the end of the pattern) and visual references (eg roads and rivers to help find the airport)

I use X-plane for IFR Practice, but for visual ground reference the MSFS is a whole new world.

I agree the “sim” portion is severely lacking, it’s a video-game; the most egregious example is that flying multi-engine and cutting one engine while slowing down to a stall, does not induce a VMC roll.
 
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