Mountain Flight Planning

[Geico266]

It looks like I'll be flying VFR into Grand Junction, CO Saturday from Portland as a fuel stop before heading over the mountains east. My current plan is to head east from Grand Junction off the 098 degree radial towards Gunisson- Crested Butte, then through Monarch Pass to Pueblo, CO.

My question is what is a good mountain flying planning tool, or what route though the mountains in this area would you recommend?

Unpressurized, no 02, single engine, 18K ceiling.

Any experienced advice appreciated.

 

[LearDriver]

It looks like I'll be flying VFR into Grand Junction, CO Saturday from Portland as a fuel stop before heading over the mountains east. My current plan is to head east from Grand Junction off the 098 degree radial towards Gunisson- Crested Butte, then through Monarch Pass to Pueblo, CO.

My question is what is a good mountain flying planning tool, or what route though the mountains in this area would you recommend?

Unpressurized, no 02, single engine, 18K ceiling.

Any experienced advice appreciated.

With no O2 you are going to limit your options.

I would look at fuel stop in PIH Pocatello, ID and then go across Wyoming and down the east side of the Rockies.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

It looks like I'll be flying VFR into Grand Junction, CO Saturday from Portland as a fuel stop before heading over the mountains east. My current plan is to head east from Grand Junction off the 098 degree radial towards Gunisson- Crested Butte, then through Monarch Pass to Pueblo, CO.

My question is what is a good mountain flying planning tool, or what route though the mountains in this area would you recommend?

Unpressurized, no 02, single engine, 18K ceiling.

Any experienced advice appreciated.

A few questions:

1) Portland, OR? And what is your final destination?
2) You ever taken a mountain flying course? Are you looking to go between, or as far over as possible?

I think the best "tool" for planning this sort of stuff is a sectional and a brain. Skyvector is nice for plotting courses between airports and navaids, but your pencil will work better for the details where you might be weaving back and forth.

Taking the route you described above, you'll be flying along part of a route I took through there (I landed at KAJZ). I have taken mountain course and wanted the "between" route. Here's what I did (in a normally aspirated 182). I'm not necessarily suggesting this as a good route, but I was able to do the whole thing at 13,500:

From KAJZ, I flew a true course of about 070, passing a little north of 7V2. I hung a left at the Paorila (sp? hard to read on the chart) reservoir, the skinny north-south one and followed the river and road to the pass that's right under V361. Went through there, headed north some more, rounded the corner and took a right towards Aspen. Flew right over Aspen and continued following the road that leaves Aspen to the southeast, through Independence Pass and on to Twin Lakes (that Mount Elbert on the left just before you get to Twin Lakes is the highest of the Rocky mountains, and second-highest peak in the ConUS). I landed at KLXV just to say I had, flew northeast through Mosquito Pass, and north to the Dillon reservoir where I followed US 6 east and went over Loveland Pass before following I-70 the rest of the way into the Denver area.

While you can do that route at 13,500, it's a bit circuitous and does absolutely nothing to avoid the big rocks. What can I say, I was sightseeing. However, I like your route to Crested Butte and would suggest maybe even continuing roughly on that heading down toward 04V and then turning north in that big valley - Kinda the long way around, but you could probably stay even lower.

Have fun!

 

[Clark1961]

You could check out: http://www.coloradopilots.org/ for info.

There are many aircraft littered on and about Monarch pass. It is not a recommended route. Stay north and follow I-80 is darn good advise.

If you don't like the looks of Monarch then south to La Veta is an out. I've been over La Veta and it wasn't bad but the winds were calm even though the forecast was for 20+ knots. There are many parks (clearings) on La Veta so it should be easy to find a soft spot if absolutely necessary.

Pueblo no longer has an approach control, they use Denver Approach so make sure your info is up to date. Pueblo did split the tower so it has dedicated freqs for the parallel 8's now. Watch out for the Katanas, they are everywhere and then some. Go to the self-serve pumps rather than Flower if fuel price is a concern. The Spitfire Grill serves an edible lunch. Nothing to write home about but it fills the need. If you've got some time or an urge to stretch your legs then walk south to the museum. They've got a B-29 tucked inside that hangar along with alot of other stuff you can get up close to.

 

[SkyHog]

My best advice to you is to be smart. You'll hear people say that you must have a turbo to fly in the mountains, and aside from one person whom I really respect that repeatedly says it, most of them have no experience and therefore have a worthless opinion.

In reality, you can do it in almost any plane. Monarch pass is rough, but definitely doable. You're going to want to hit the dirty passes early morning if possible to avoid insane DAs. For example, its not uncommon to hit 14-15K in the mountain elevations of around 8-9K ft pressure. That's a tough hill to climb.

Always cross ridges at a 45 degree angle so that you have an out should you get stuck in a monstrous downdraft that you cannot escape. For your route, you may be better off to tuck up to Wyoming and pick your way through instead, since going as far south as Monarch to get to Portland, OR is a really long way south, and will have you picking your way through a LOT of mountains.

Remember - mountain flying courses CAN help, but are generally a waste of time, IMHO. You already know what you need to know, just realize you know it. Remember the stuff in your private training about high DA and performance calculations, the stuff that you never really thought mattered since you always have so much more runway than you need? You need to know it now.

Most AWOS/ASOS will give you the density altitude, which makes it a lot easier than having to plot it on the little graph thingie. You'll hear "Caution, Density Altitude one two thousand" or something at the end. Very useful.

 

[Anthony]

Respect these mountains. You obviously do as you posted the question here. In my three years based in Denver and playing in the mountains, I found its entirely different, challenging, fun, scary and everything in between. Mountain flying courses are NOT a waste of time. There are specific tactics you must use to approach ridges, have an out and know what the winds and weather is doing. You can fly in the mountains and go most places at 12,500 ft. You don't need a turbo, not that it would't be nice. I avoided Monarch pass an prefer La Veta and the southern route. KPUB is a great choice for a stop.


Hopefully Eric and Greg will chime in as they still live it every day.

 

[Geico266]

For your route, you may be better off to tuck up to Wyoming and pick your way through instead, since going as far south as Monarch to get to Portland, OR is a really long way south, and will have you picking your way through a LOT of mountains.

That was plan "A" but the weather looked like it would close in yesterday. Today, the northern route looks the best, and it does limit the exposure to the big rocks. Your comments about turbulance in Monarch Pass is well taken. The time of day we would pass though would be mid day, not good.

I always get pumped about flight planning a little too soon, but it does give me time to get in the "flying mode" mentally.

 

[Geico266]

Respect these mountains. You obviously do as you posted the question here.

Always better to leave the ego at home and ask pilots who have made the trip.

Thanks to all for the comments, they are very helpful.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I ain't no expert, but the advice I got for crossing into Alaska in a Cessna 120 was stick to the roads - that way if you go down you stand a chance of being found. Plus you have at least something besides trees / rocks to put down on.

Watch out for tunnels.

 

[Geico266]

I ain't no expert, but the advice I got for crossing into Alaska in a Cessna 120 was stick to the roads - that way if you go down you stand a chance of being found. Plus you have at least something besides trees / rocks to put down on.

Watch out for tunnels.

You need to put up a warning! I spewed coffee all over my puter!

Should I stay on the left or right side of the tunnel?

 

[Geico266]

I've flown across the big rocks before, but it was up north near Spokane, WA. Very pretty country. It would be nice to see some ID country again, so I'm leaning towards heading southeast. A little early to make firm plans, but it's nice to plan ahead.

I like the La Veta, CO route! thanks!

 

[gkainz]

If it were me, I wouldn't do it, unless you have experience in this kind of terrain that you didn't share.

I echo the suggestion above to shorten your leg, make your fuel stop in ID or WY, and then come across I-80 in WY. The weather for our mountains doesn't look conducive to VFR and safe flight ops for the next 5-7 days, as I see it.

 

[Geico266]

If it were me, I wouldn't do it, unless you have experience in this kind of terrain that you didn't share.

I echo the suggestion above to shorten your leg, make your fuel stop in ID or WY, and then come across I-80 in WY. The weather for our mountains doesn't look conducive to VFR and safe flight ops for the next 5-7 days, as I see it.

I've flown over the Rockies a couple of times, but not in this area, and I have attended a couple of moutain flying seminars at OSH. I've crossed them up north near Spokane, and more south through NM.

I agree, it doesn't look good for VFR right now. Hopefully, that will change in a few days. If not I'll go north through MT.

 

[bobmrg]

When I began delivering Cherokees from Vero Beach to Seattle I had zero mountain flying training (I don't consider the Cascades to be mountains in this context) and I chose my route according to what the weather gods offered. I went through Monarch Pass once....and found other routes on other occasions.

Bob Gardner

 

[gkainz]

You need to put up a warning! I spewed coffee all over my puter!

Should I stay on the left or right side of the tunnel?

depends on direction of flight ...
north bore if westbound, south bore if eastbound... lane choice within the bore is your call, but be advised that hazardous materials are required to use Loveland Pass.

more technically correct, it's generally called "Eisenhower Tunnel" but in reality, "Its full official name is the Eisenhower/Johnson Memorial Tunnel (EJMT); the westbound bore is named after U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower (for whom the Interstate system is also named), the eastbound bore after Edwin C. Johnson, a former governor and U.S. Senator from Colorado.[1]" from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisenhower_Tunnel

 

[gkainz]

I've flown across the big rocks before, but it was up north near Spokane, WA. Very pretty country. It would be nice to see some ID country again, so I'm leaning towards heading southeast. A little early to make firm plans, but it's nice to plan ahead.

I like the La Veta, CO route! thanks!

Eric (haven't seen him on the board in a while?) likes and recommends the La Veta route as well for a lot of his travels SW from here.

 

[docmirror]

I fly this route sometimes but going west rather than east. Going east is easier than west because the prevailing wind is typically out of 240-300 @ 15-40Kts. Go to skyvector and locate KANK. That's Salida. Due west of that is a pair of weather stations at KMYP, KGUC. They will give you real time idea of what's happening in and around Monarch pass.

I like Monarch(strictly VFR) because you have two very nice runways only about 45 miles apart. The approaches to those airports are in nice valleys, with shallow terrain. Yes, there are big rocks in between, but you minimize the amount of time spent in bad country by following hwy 50 fairly close.

Going east, follow hwy 50 closely. You will clearly see Mt Ouray directly ahead. Plan to keep it on your left and go through Marshal pass. After passing Mt Ouray, turn left a bit to 050 and go around the mtns just ahead following hwy 285 for a bit. Once over KANK you can just fly through the Arkansas river valley to KPUB, or if you want to stay even safer, turn right and go down wet mtn valley, although this will take you further out of the way if your going NE.

When you depart safe gliding distance from Gunnison airport have it in your mind that you will be turning back to Gunnison. That will be your flight plan, and there's no shame in turning around west and set down in Gunnison if you don't like everything you see ahead. Lots of cheap hotels and eats in Gunnison. Same in Salida.

If the absolute worst should happen, try to glide back toward hwy 50, or depending on location or wind glide forward to 285. Remember, you'll glide further with the wind.
Both highways are wide enough to land on. I know, I've driven them both many times. Prepare for turbulence. Afternoons can get pretty bumpy and don't try to hold an altitude too much. If the air is going up, slow and go up with it, if it's going down, speed up and fly out of it.

The Arkansas river valley is pretty dangerous too. There's not much in there and it's a narrow gorge all the way to Canon city. Stay high if you go that way.

This is Mt Ouray looking NW as I was going W through Marshal. Next one is the Uncompaghre range SW of Gunnison on the way to Ta-hell-ya-ride ski area. Beautiful, but scary. Taken in Feb 09.

 

[Tom-D]

It looks like I'll be flying VFR into Grand Junction, CO Saturday from Portland as a fuel stop before heading over the mountains east. My current plan is to head east from Grand Junction off the 098 degree radial towards Gunisson- Crested Butte, then through Monarch Pass to Pueblo, CO.

My question is what is a good mountain flying planning tool, or what route though the mountains in this area would you recommend?

Unpressurized, no 02, single engine, 18K ceiling.

Any experienced advice appreciated.

Plan on flying when and where the weather allows.. and don't plan on flying thru the mountains, (go around, over, never thru)

 

[murphey]

Do not follow I-70 (the tunnel route) unless your single engine aircraft is either a Pilatus or an F-16. Once you're on the east side of the Divide, I-70 is a good route, tho.

The LaVeta pass route is highly recommended - you can go over at 11.5 (the winding road is at
9.1K) and you're really only over the hills for abour 10 minutes. There's an AWOS station on the top - you can look for KVTP on airnav.com as you come by Alamosa (KALS).

The winds at Monarch have been rather wicked lately...you can get the AWOS there searching for KMYP on airnav.com.

 

[murphey]

A few questions:

1) Portland, OR? And what is your final destination?
2) You ever taken a mountain flying course? Are you looking to go between, or as far over as possible?

I think the best "tool" for planning this sort of stuff is a sectional and a brain. Skyvector is nice for plotting courses between airports and navaids, but your pencil will work better for the details where you might be weaving back and forth.

Taking the route you described above, you'll be flying along part of a route I took through there (I landed at KAJZ). I have taken mountain course and wanted the "between" route. Here's what I did (in a normally aspirated 182). I'm not necessarily suggesting this as a good route, but I was able to do the whole thing at 13,500:

From KAJZ, I flew a true course of about 070, passing a little north of 7V2. I hung a left at the Paorila (sp? hard to read on the chart) reservoir, the skinny north-south one and followed the river and road to the pass that's right under V361. Went through there, headed north some more, rounded the corner and took a right towards Aspen. Flew right over Aspen and continued following the road that leaves Aspen to the southeast, through Independence Pass and on to Twin Lakes (that Mount Elbert on the left just before you get to Twin Lakes is the highest of the Rocky mountains, and second-highest peak in the ConUS). I landed at KLXV just to say I had, flew northeast through Mosquito Pass, and north to the Dillon reservoir where I followed US 6 east and went over Loveland Pass before following I-70 the rest of the way into the Denver area.

While you can do that route at 13,500, it's a bit circuitous and does absolutely nothing to avoid the big rocks. What can I say, I was sightseeing. However, I like your route to Crested Butte and would suggest maybe even continuing roughly on that heading down toward 04V and then turning north in that big valley - Kinda the long way around, but you could probably stay even lower.

Have fun!

1. Independence Pass has NO, I repeat NO way out if you get into trouble. My friends in the Colorado CAP will be very annoyed if they have to come pick up the pieces.

2. Again, following I-70 from the west side of Colorado over the Divide is not recommended in a single engine, aspirated engine. Again, CAP doesn't really need the practice. They get enough as it is.

3. You say a single engine - what airplane and what engine? Are you familiar with mountain flying? Is your ceiling of 16K on a cold day? What about density altitude?

Sorry to be the grinch around here, but this place can be really dangerous.

 

[murphey]

>Remember - mountain flying courses CAN help, but are generally a waste of time, IMHO. You already know what you need to know, just realize you know it.

Hm? Do you know what to do if you have an emergency and need to land? It's snowing in the Rockies right now. It may be April and spring, but welcome to the snowiest month in Colorado. Got gear to keep you safe & warm should you need to land someplace other than an airport?

How's the battery in your ELT? Don't depend on your cell phone. Can't guarantee there's a repeater anywhere nearby.

Flight following doesn't exist over the hills - you need to be on an IFR flight plan and adhere to the IFR altitudes to remain in contact with ATC. LaVeta Pass at 12.5K? Sorry, ATC loses sight of you. The entire valley from Salida north to Leadville? Sorry, ATC can't see you unless you're above 14.5K.

Take I-80 - never need to go over 10.5K, IIRC.

Regards,
The Grinch.

 

[murphey]

When I began delivering Cherokees from Vero Beach to Seattle I had zero mountain flying training (I don't consider the Cascades to be mountains in this context) and I chose my route according to what the weather gods offered. I went through Monarch Pass once....and found other routes on other occasions.

Bob Gardner

(*eeeevil laugh*)

But the drive is absolutely gorgeous!

One of the most important lessons in the Colorado Mountain course (properly named the Colorado Pilots High Altitude Airport class) is 1. Not at Night, and 2. Not in IMC.

I've stayed in some of the crummiest motels in Colorado because I was on the wrong side of the hills come dusk.

 

[colomtnflyer]

I find it interesting that those not flying regularly in the Colo Mtns have the strongest opinions about how to deal with them! And comments stating that Mtn Flying Courses are 'a waste of time' show the limited grasp that some people have of the nuances associated with flying the high mtns on a regular basis. (Sorry, Nick, but I really have to disagree with you on this one!)

It seems Greg K and Murphey have some good ideas. But I believe there are still a few things which should be mentioned.

La Veta Pass is lower than most, and is very under rated for its danger. The prevailing winds from the West MANDATE that you remain to the East side whether going North or South thru the pass if they are blowing. Otherwise you will become more scrap metal laying on the ground, as is the case with more aircraft than have crashed on Monarch Pass! The turbulence if you get caught in the downdrafts on the West side will wake you up in a hurry, but usually too late for you to do anything but pray.

Monarch also gets some screaming winds as they tend to accelerate as they squeeze thru the narrow gap at the top. Many times, it almost feels as if your ground speed has come to a full stop as you clear the summit while flying East to West! 40+ kts of wind is NOT uncommon! That's a good day to go a few minutes further south thru Marshall Pass. When flying West to East thru Monarch, make sure you have all the altitude you need well before you get close to the pass itself. 13,000 will get you thru the pass safely, but if its windy, even more would be nice. One advantage of Monarch, if it hasn't been stated before, is that you are at that altitude for a very short time. Get up, get thru, and begin your descent toward Salida/ Alexander Cty pretty shortly after clearing the summit. Again, allow the winds to help you determine the appropriate side of the valley to fly down (or up, depending on your direction of travel)

The comment was made to clear most of the higher passes earlier in the day, before the temps heat up and the gentle breezes become gale force. Very wise suggestion. But it doesn't mean there aren't other ways to get thru the mtns later in the day. You just have to be a bit more creative. But for an inexperienced pilot, unfamiliar with the terrain, this is not necessarily the best time to practice!

 

[midlifeflyer]

1. Independence Pass has NO, I repeat NO way out if you get into trouble. My friends in the Colorado CAP will be very annoyed if they have to come pick up the pieces.

2. Again, following I-70 from the west side of Colorado over the Divide is not recommended in a single engine, aspirated engine. Again, CAP doesn't really need the practice. They get enough as it is.

3. You say a single engine - what airplane and what engine? Are you familiar with mountain flying? Is your ceiling of 16K on a cold day? What about density altitude?

Sorry to be the grinch around here, but this place can be really dangerous.

I'll add the NO to Monarch pass as well, unless the winds are very calm.

Geico, among all the other advice (including the advice to be mountain trained/experienced before taking a central Rockies route) understand that the pass markings on sectional charts show where the road over the pass is. They do not show the best place for an airplane to cross.

Mountain flying is great. But you have to know what you are doing or murphey's (and my) friends in CAP may have more to do than they need.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I find it interesting that those not flying regularly in the Colo Mtns have the strongest opinions about how to deal with them! And comments stating that Mtn Flying Courses are 'a waste of time' show the limited grasp that some people have of the nuances associated with flying the high mtns on a regular basis. (Sorry, Nick, but I really have to disagree with you on this one!)

It's not surprising that those who know are more conservative about the risks than those who don't.

 

[Trapper John]

My best advice to you is to be smart.

Trapper John

 

[Anthony]

It's not surprising that those who know are more conservative about the risks than those who don't.

That comes from the experience of flying in the mountains and realizing that as in any GA aircraft you are extremely vulnerable to wind, weather and granite. Compared to the power of the conditions in these mountains we are a mere spec.

Look at what happened to Sparky Imeson. One of the more experienced and knowledgable mountain flyers out there.

 

[docmirror]

While I respect the mtns, I'm of the opinion that with the right info, flying over the divide is not the heart stopping voodoo that may be mentioned here. If you call flight watch when over Gunnison, ask for the reports from Gunnison, and the top of Monarch pass, you can make an informed decision. La Veta is no doubt safer, and not as high. If you can get to about 14,500 on the way in from Gunnison, that should get you downhill with plenty of safety if you follow Marshall pass, or in low wind conditions right over Monarch.

I don't live there, but I've flown in and out for years. Like I said before, when you leave the airport the flight plan should be an intention of going back and landing right where you started(Gunnison in this case). If you make it to the view-across sight line, that's a checkpoint, if you feel good, keep flying. Make it to the crest, checkpoint, make it to gliding distance to the highway, checkpoint, make it in gliding distance to the airport, checkpoint. Finally, you're golden. If you don't feel real good at a checkpoint, go back.

<edit: METAR from MYP, I prolly would be careful going east but have a look. I would not try going west with this: MYPWed 03:16 PM UTC28 minutes old
VFR220° at 37 kts (gusts to 40 kts)8000 Overcast10 sm27° F16° F29.98

 

[Anthony]

Doc, I don't think anybody is saying not to do it, just get the proper training, routes, conditions, preperation, etc.

 

[Clark1961]

<edit: METAR from MYP, I prolly would be careful going east but have a look. I would not try going west with this: MYPWed 03:16 PM UTC28 minutes old VFR220° at 37 kts (gusts to 40 kts)8000 Overcast10 sm27° F16° F29.98

Yup, the 30/30 rule - don't go without at least 30 miles vis and winds aloft below 30 knots.

 

[LearDriver]

Never put your neck in a loop of rope that you can't get it out of before it pulls tight. I am in a and out of the rockies often enough. Though in the last several years it is all turbine equipment or a 421. Most of the singles that I flew in that area were turbo. No matter what anyone says it does make a difference.

Even in those airplanes the density altitude is a real bugger. I spent my early years of flying going between SLC and DEN. Respect, good information and being very willing to turn back at the first sign or two of trouble will keep you safe. If you cant get in a mountain flying course at least read a book or two on the subject.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

1. Independence Pass has NO, I repeat NO way out if you get into trouble. My friends in the Colorado CAP will be very annoyed if they have to come pick up the pieces.

Hmmm. There's a road going through there, at least. It's either that or the treetops, IIRC, but that pass wasn't particularly memorable.

2. Again, following I-70 from the west side of Colorado over the Divide is not recommended in a single engine, aspirated engine. Again, CAP doesn't really need the practice. They get enough as it is.

Read carefully. I didn't follow I-70 "from the west side of Colorado over the divide." I was fairly close to the Utah part of I-70, but then I was off I-70 until nearly in Denver. East of the tunnels. I've driven I-70 plenty of times, and US 6 as well. It's quite clear just from the drive that I-70 is not the way to go.

3. You say a single engine - what airplane and what engine? Are you familiar with mountain flying? Is your ceiling of 16K on a cold day? What about density altitude?

C182, 230hp, two and bags aboard. This particular plane will make it to a DA of at least 18,900 (BTDT, haven't tried any higher), and it'll maintain 500fpm climb up to 15,300 on a hot day. It uses almost exactly 2000 feet of runway at 12,200 DA. It glides beautifully power-off, trimmed all the way up, at 80mph and a hair over 800fpm descent with the prop pulled back. I can carry 747 pounds in the cabin with full fuel, or 903 pounds and 4 hours of fuel. I have to put over 650 pounds in the front seats to get it forward of the CG envelope, and fill the baggage compartment to limits and the rest of the way up to gross to get near the aft CG. It has one stop-drilled crack on the left wingtip, likes burning up GE 4509 landing lights, its ELT antenna was replaced on August 12th of last year, the left-hand door retainer likes to break about once a year, any more than 9.5 quarts of oil will be gone in a hurry, and any time the temperature is above about 45 degrees fahrenheit the panel plastic expands enough to one post light off its contact.

All that is the long way of saying, I know the plane, OK? N271G and I are best friends. And yes, I took a mountain flying course - One of the most educational and most fun things I've ever done. (And I vehemently disagree with Nick in regards to its usefulness.) And I would not have done my first trip through the mountains in any other airplane - My mantra, as always is: You must push the envelope to become a better pilot, but you must only push one corner of the envelope at a time...

And now, that gives me an excuse to post my favorite picture again.

 

[Geico266]

I agree Doc. Especially with the performance of RV's. I think most if not all comments are just saying be careful, and that I am.

Looks like the weather is going to keep me out of the CO area so the plan is go the northern route through MT, get to SD and park & wait. Lincoln, NE is expecting 80% chance of T-storms and rain Sat. Sunday is down to 50% light rain in the am broken to clearing in the after noon.

I really do appreciate all of the PM's giving me phone numbers and airports to use from guys that live in the CO area. Very nice to know there are experienced pilots here that get it, and offer planning advice and help. If you ever need any help negotiating the wild terrain of Nebraska let me know.

Anyone in SD need some company from 2 RV guys?

 

[gkainz]

What SD airport are you targeting?

 

[LearDriver]

Rapid City has a nice airport.

 

[murphey]

Multi:

thanks for the info, but I wasn't asking your airplane, but Geico's. What's he/she flying for the Grand Junction/other parts east trip? Of course in a C182 with a service ceiling of 18K you have
more options. But I sure wouldn't land on the road around Independence Pass with anything, not
even an RV6 - in some stretches, it's a one-lane road. And full of llittle twisty passages that will not be solved with the magic word. I've driven it many times - a really fun drive in the summer until you encounter another car/truck coming the other way....

 

[Geico266]

Rapid City has a nice airport.

Bingo! That os where I was flight planning towards. If the weather is good I'll head south a little more til my minimums come into play.

 

[Anthony]

Kent. That is a beautiful photo. What airport is that?

The Colorado Bureau of Aviation produces a nice map that features the location of mountain passes, lists the mountan AWOS freequencies and other useful info. Combined with a Sectional its a very good tool. I'll see if I can find a link to it.

Here ya go:

http://www.colorado-aeronautics.org/aeroform.cfm

 

[SkyHog]

I find it interesting that those not flying regularly in the Colo Mtns have the strongest opinions about how to deal with them! And comments stating that Mtn Flying Courses are 'a waste of time' show the limited grasp that some people have of the nuances associated with flying the high mtns on a regular basis. (Sorry, Nick, but I really have to disagree with you on this one!)

Well, disagree all you want, but I fly in the Colorado Rockies quite frequently, and I fly through the northern NM Rockies even more. It simply ain't that hard, and Mountain Flying Courses are really only useful for people lacking the basic knowledge of flying that was originally taught during primary instruction (not a bad thing, I mean, if you never worry about mountain waves or density altitude, then you're not going to remember it).

That said, I respect your opinion on mountain flying more than almost anyone elses since you have done it so much.

Flying mountains is exactly like flying on a SUPER SUPER SUPER turbulent day at 10,000+ feet, except you don't have as far to fall before you hit the ground. Sure, there's other techniques to improve safety, but the flying part? Its the same.

Whoever brought up the strawmen of "ELTs, Cellphones, and flight following" oh my, missed the point that the pilot "Be Smart." Intelligence goes a long way.

The comment was made to clear most of the higher passes earlier in the day, before the temps heat up and the gentle breezes become gale force. Very wise suggestion. But it doesn't mean there aren't other ways to get thru the mtns later in the day. You just have to be a bit more creative. But for an inexperienced pilot, unfamiliar with the terrain, this is not necessarily the best time to practice!

That comment was from me - the one that is lacking mountain experience (somehow).

 

[SkyHog]

BTW, my favorite posts in these mountain flying threads are the "mine's bigger" posts where people get huffity and say things like:

Did you calculate your ceiling on a cold day or a warm day?

As if that kind of knowledge makes you qualified to fly in the mountains.... (hence my distrust of mountain flying courses).