More TSA Nonsense.....

Bureaucrats follow the rules, to the letter. They understand the need for common sense in the application of their duties, the problem is, they do not exactly understand what common sense means. None of their superiors have defined it into a government speak regulation that they can comprehend.

The bureaucrat in the video had a tough time even discussing such an abstract concept. He obviously had no clue on how to explain it to his minions.

A regulation is a regulation, there is no wiggle room.

John
 
The problem is that once you accept the premise that any of this nonsense is necessary to begin with, there's no rational basis for exempting children. A terrorist could hide explosives in a child's underwear just as easily as in an adults -- more easily, in fact, if the child is still wearing a diaper. So following TSA's tortuous "logic," diapered passengers should receive the most thorough pat searches of all travelers.

That's assuming, of course, that you accept the premise that any of this is necessary.

For those of us who believe it's just a circus to begin with, incidents like this actually help our cause. There's no way TSA can justify exempting children from being groped and fondled without defeating the whole alleged security purpose. What's the point of groping all the adult passengers if we allow babies and toddlers aboard un-groped? A terrorist could hide a heck of a lot of C-4 in a diaper.

But at the same time, parents (and society in general) are more protective of children, and making them scream in terror every time they board an airplane tends to make for bad PR. It also presents TSA with a delightfully difficult dilemma: Do they give the kids a pass, and thus remove any doubt that the whole grope-down procedure is a farce, or do they continue to antagonize the traveling public by terrorizing their children until someone makes them stop?

My money's on the latter. I doubt TSA will do the right thing on its own. Unless someone higher-up forces them to back down, the agency will not do it voluntarily. They're too hung up on their power trip.

I can't help but look at TSA as sort of a living reenactment of Philip Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Experiment. The main difference is that Zimbardo had the good sense to prematurely stop his experiment after six days. The Federal government being, well, the Federal government, lacks a similar quotient of common sense.

So when will it end? Well, I fear that it's only a matter of time before some enraged parent hauls off and decks a TSO for fondling and/or causing pain to his or her kid, and the rest of the assembled victims passengers break out in wild applause and cheer the parent on.

I mean, let's face it: When you cause enough pain and humiliation to enough people who are merely trying to get from one place to another, eventually you're going to push someone past his or her breaking point. Parental instincts are very strong, and the odds are that some day, some TSO is going to mess with the wrong parent's kid, and the parent will lose it and beat the daylights out of the TSO. The TSO will go home with two black eyes and minus a few teeth, and the parent will go to jail.

But the real question for the government will be who's side Joe Six-Pack is on. Will the public rally to the parent's cause, like many did to that stressed-out FA who grabbed a brew and popped the chute after being abused by one pax too many, or will they back the guy with the tin badge who fondles children and makes them cry?

One thing's for certain: If and when that day ever comes, and the case goes to trial, the government had better make sure that there are no other parents on the jury.

-Rich
 
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It also presents TSA with a delightfully difficult dilemma: Do they give the kids a pass, and thus remove any doubt that the whole grope-down procedure is a farce, or do they continue to antagonize the traveling public by terrorizing their children until someone makes them stop?


I remember one trip where the TSA goon made a toddler (maybe 2 years old) remove her shoes. The look on her face was agonizing, like "why are they taking my shoes?". Both shoes could have fit in a quart size ziplock bag. Yeah, those shoes would have contained a MASSIVE amount of, uh, what?
 
My money's on the latter. I doubt TSA will do the right thing on its own. Unless someone higher-up forces them to back down, the agency will not do it voluntarily. They're too hung up on their power trip.

My opinion: there are only two ways this will be resolved, one is through repeated constitutional lawsuits, and the other is a civil rights movement akin to the civil rights movements of the 50s and 60s. Congress will not do anything for fear of being "soft on terror" even though the government's own administrative branch is doing more to stoke fear and damage to the constitution than any foreign terrorist could dream of doing on thier own. In fact, it is my belief that the terrorists have learned to play the TSA/DHS in a manner that achieves their goals without them mounting an actual attack.
 
My opinion: there are only two ways this will be resolved, one is through repeated constitutional lawsuits, and the other is a civil rights movement akin to the civil rights movements of the 50s and 60s. Congress will not do anything for fear of being "soft on terror" even though the government's own administrative branch is doing more to stoke fear and damage to the constitution than any foreign terrorist could dream of doing on thier own. In fact, it is my belief that the terrorists have learned to play the TSA/DHS in a manner that achieves their goals without them mounting an actual attack.

We have an administrative branch? Do they do my drycleaning too?
 
I don't see this going away quietly, with America simply surrendering to the idiocy of the TSA and DHS. Groping Janet is going to become the (if she isn't already) the poster child of everything wrong with the government and anything that people blame Obama over.

The way Rumsfeld defined the Bush white house, TSA is going to epitomize the Obama white house.

This is all one groped child from exploding into a movement. Just wait until some enterprising reporter discovers one of these TSA thugs is a convicted child molester, who got some kind of plea deal to avoid bring named a sexual predator. A diaper won't hold even a little bit of the *** that will stick all over Obama over the whole sordid disgrace.
 
This is all one groped child from exploding into a movement. Just wait until some enterprising reporter discovers one of these TSA thugs is a convicted child molester, who got some kind of plea deal to avoid bring named a sexual predator. A diaper won't hold even a little bit of the *** that will stick all over Obama over the whole sordid disgrace.


Sharing last night's dreams is in another thread a while back :ihih:

I have yet to see any real "stick"iness to the White House so far...if anything I think folks blame Congress for this even though it is the Executive who promulgates the regulations. Congress was the enabler.
 
It'll be interesting anyway. Fear of one thing vs. fear of something else...
 
Janet said today that Linkit is "a law enforcement search".

Those who "refuse" advanced imaging machines "can go to a separate area for a same-gender pat-down, which is conducted as a law enforcement pat-down should be, in a very professional way," according to Napolitano

Law Enforcement search <> administrative search.

A former top TSA executive said
"Nobody likes having their Fourth Amendment rights violated at the security line, but, um, the truth of the matter is, we're gonna have to do it."

Link

These kinds of statements tend to support the vocal objectors.
 
Janet said today that Linkit is "a law enforcement search".
Uh oh!!! Hmm, that's not going to bode well for their day in court with EPIC in December.....

Private citizens (TSOs) doing law enforcement. With a meaningless uniform. I wonder if that comes close to impersonating an officer?
 
Not to take the side of the TSA, but driving home last night I started wondering....

1) We tend to villify the screeners. But have any of the front-line TSA screeners objected or refused to participate in the pat-down procedures?
2) If so, what happened to them?
3) We all know that Teddy Kennedy was on a no-fly list (and he dealt with it, at least in public, as a gentleman), I'd really like some journalists/whatever at Dulles to monitor what happens when a member of Congress uses commercial airline to travel home.
4) Same for Napolitano. Or does she get the same deal as Pelosi (government aircraft back to California)?

And to comment on Pistole's latest plea, ""using technology and protocols to stay ahead of the [terrorist] threat and keep you safe."

No they aren't. You're using technology & protocols to deal with previous threats.
 
Crap. My mind melted trying to choose from so many possible joke responses to that straight line.

Heck.... There is an easy way to address this tactic. Get a baby/child, about 4 hours before you have to clear security make sure junior is 'well fed' and let the diaper get good and filled with crap. Then, as you go through the security line hand a new diaper to the TSA agent doing the "pat down'" and suggest, " Hey , while you are at it change the diaper too".. Now that would make a great youtube moment. :hairraise::wink2::wink2::D
 
Heck.... There is an easy way to address this tactic. Get a baby/child, about 4 hours before you have to clear security make sure junior is 'well fed' and let the diaper get good and filled with crap. Then, as you go through the security line hand a new diaper to the TSA agent doing the "pat down'" and suggest, " Hey , while you are at it change the diaper too".. Now that would make a great youtube moment. :hairraise::wink2::wink2::D

Heck, I would wear the diaper and suggest that.
 
I had several very bad experiences with TSA when my kids were younger.

Why CAN'T a parent carry a kid through the metal detector?? Does it really matter??? If it beeps, search both of them. They absolutely f'ing terrorized my daughter when she was 3. She still talks about it.

They must use a chimp to make TSA hiring decisions. It's very easy -- "Is this human less intelligent than I?? Yes?? He's hired!!!!"
 
Well, in Orlando, you'll have a choice:
http://wdbo.com/localnews/2010/11/sanford-airport-to-opt-out-of.html

Orlando Sanford International Airport has decided to opt out from TSA screening.
"All of our due diligence shows it's the way to go," said Larry Dale, the director of the Sanford Airport Authority. "You're going to get better service at a better price and more accountability and better customer service."
 
The American Association for Nude Recreation said it was offering a "Certificate of Achievement" for anyone who "proudly supports TSA body scanning measures."

"They're only bringing what nature gave them aboard," said Erich Schuttauf, executive director of the nudist group based in Kissimmee, Fla. "You can add the experience to your 'bucket list' as a virtual dipping of one's toe into taking a 'nakation' — that's a nudist vacation."

:goofy:
 
Heck, I would wear the diaper and suggest that.
Tie it into the 6Y9 schedule so we can all be there to film the event. It would be a hoot (for us) and prolly go viral. Maybe a book deal and large settlement in the future?
 
As a guy, I do not want to be groped by another guy. I should have a choice. I want to be groped by a woman. Preferably by a Victoria Secret's model, but even an ugly female TSA employee is better than being groped by a guy.
 
1) We tend to villify the screeners. But have any of the front-line TSA screeners objected or refused to participate in the pat-down procedures?

2) If so, what happened to them?

They are fired for insurbordination. Yes, seriously.
 
Its gotten even craizier. Now they are making women with Masectomies show their prosthesis. This is sick.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40278427/ns/travel-news
Not as sick as having some guy who was working at McDonalds 2 weeks ago look at your 13 yo daughter naked. Well, maybe as sick as that.

I love some of the comments out there. Like "if it stops people blowing up planes, I'm all for it.". I can't fathom just how dumb most people are :(
 
I think the choice is smarter screening methods, something akin to what the Israelies do.

elal. Thats the way to do it. This country doesn't have the stomach for this method yet.

This is from wikipedia, so it obviously has to be taken with a grain of salt. I've bolded what is the same as the United States, and italicized what is significantly different.

Passengers are asked to report three hours before departure. All El Al terminals around the world are closely monitored for security. There are plain-clothes agents and fully armed police or military personnel who patrol the premises for explosives, suspicious behavior, and other threats. Inside the terminal, passengers and their baggage are checked by a trained team. El Al security procedures require that all passengers be interviewed individually prior to boarding, allowing El Al staff to identify possible security threats. Passengers will be asked questions about where they are coming from, the reason for their trip, their job or occupation, and whether they have packed their bags themselves. The likelihood of potential terrorists remaining calm under such questioning is believed to be low (see microexpression).[38]
At the check-in counter, passengers' passports and tickets are closely examined. A ticket without a sticker from the security checkers will not be accepted. At passport control passengers' names are checked against information from the FBI, Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), Scotland Yard, Shin Bet, and Interpol databases. Luggage is screened and sometimes hand searched. In addition, bags are put through a decompression chamber simulating pressures during flight that could trigger explosives.[39] El Al is the only airline in the world that passes all luggage through such a chamber.[40] Even at overseas airports, El Al security agents conduct all luggage searches personally, even if they are supervised by government or private security firms.[41]
El Al flies between 3-4 million people per year. The US flies about 100 times that per year.

How well are individual interviews, putting every bag through a decompression chamber, etc., going to work here?

So, it's a nice thought, but given the massive differences in scale, it's just not particularly feasible here.
 
I was made aware of a quote from Helen Keller that I think is appropriate here.

Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.
Helen Keller
 
I think the choice is smarter screening methods, something akin to what the Israelies do.
I don't say this often, but....that is the right answer to a very stupid question.

Looking for alternatives presupposes that there is some value to the thing that you're looking for alternatives for. In the case of the TSA, that's a silly assumption. Next: Everybody has to be shot in the leg before they can fly. Question: What's the alternative to that? :rolleyes2:

Thank god for the ignore feature!
 
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I don't say this often, but....that is the right answer to a very stupid question.

Looking for alternatives presupposes that there is some value to the thing that you're looking for alternatives for. In the case of the TSA, that's a silly assumption. Next: Everybody has to be shot in the leg before they can fly. Question: What's the alternative to that? :rolleyes2:

Thank god for the ignore feature!

Who are you ignoring, Felix?
 
At one time I thought John Madden was a bit extreme for his insistence on traveling the country by bus for his NFL TV work. Now I'm beginning to think he was ahead of his time. As of last week I have opted out of airline travel.
 
Requiring people to report for their flights 3 hours in advance would kill quite a few routes since it would be just as quick to drive as to fly.
 
Requiring people to report for their flights 3 hours in advance would kill quite a few routes since it would be just as quick to drive as to fly.

And that would actually help airlines reduce bleeding money, wouldn't it? ;-)
 
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