More "Darker Shades of Blue"

Everskyward

Everskyward

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Everskyward
Air Force releases findings on Alaska C-17 fatal mishap

12/10/2010 - JOINT BASE PEARL HARBOR-HICKAM, Hawaii -- Headquarters Pacific Air Forces today released the results of its investigation into a fatal C-17 Globemaster III aircraft mishap July 28, 2010, at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, Alaska.

Gen. Gary North, Pacific Air Forces commander, directed an investigation into the incident which resulted in the deaths of the four crewmembers aboard, the destruction of the $184 million aircraft, and damage to part of the Alaska Railroad.

The accident investigation board found clear and convincing evidence the cause of the mishap was pilot error. The investigation revealed the pilot placed the aircraft outside established flight parameters and capabilities. During the mishap sortie, the pilot aggressively flew the aircraft in a manner inconsistent with established flight procedures, resulting in a stall. The pilot failed to take required stall recovery actions. Furthermore, the board concluded the co-pilot and safety observer failed to recognize or address the developing dangerous situation. As a result, the C-17 stalled at an attitude and altitude from which recovery to controlled flight was impossible.
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I probably wouldn't have known about this accident except that we landed in PANC to clear customs in the middle of the night afterward and the customs officer asked if we had brought people to investigate this accident. I couldn't quite put together in my mind why we would be doing that since we were a civilian airplane arriving from another country.

The title of the thread refers to a book which came to mind when I read this press release.
 
If you watch the video, it looks like somebody just f'ing around in a big expensive plane with some low altitude show-boating. But that article suggests that they were practicing for an air show, which suggests, I suppose, that it was approved f'ing around low altitude show-boating.
-harry
 
mantakos said:
If you watch the video, it looks like somebody just f'ing around in a big expensive plane with some low altitude show-boating. But that article suggests that they were practicing for an air show, which suggests, I suppose, that it was approved f'ing around low altitude show-boating.
-harry
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They fly the airplane to a profile. Certain speeds, attitudes, G's, etc.

Like any other situation with an airplane, letting any of those get out of bounds at low altitude can cause you to have a bad day.
 
Anyone else notice that they retracted the flaps before they started the turn to the right? At the light weight they were operating at, a C-17 has gobs of power, but there are limits to the aerodynamics.
 
Interesting.

We were actually on JBER a few weeks ago. The word on the street at that time was that something went wrong and the pilots turned abruptly at the last second to miss a large area of housing on the Richardson side of the base. Some people up there were expecting medals to be given to the pilot/crew for sacrificing possibly recovery to be sure to avoid the area of housing.

While there, we saw a C-17 depart and its departure profile wasn't much different than the one in the video with the only difference being that the one we saw maintained the climb rather than leveling off.

I'm not putting on a foil hat and screaming 'conspiracy theory', just saying the published results are contrary to what I was expecting.
 

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Here's the whole report for your edification and discussion.

 

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kkoran said:
Here's the whole report for your edification and discussion.
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The whole time I was reading that I was wondering if it was something they meant to release.

I don't really have too much to say other than the fact that I find these kinds of accidents interesting and disturbing. An experienced crew does something which causes things to go wrong in a big way. It's easy to say, "They shouldn't have done that." But I have a curiosity about what caused them to do it, because I think everyone is susceptible to these kinds of things. I'm interested in the whole human factors element but I think the ways that aeronautical decision making and CRM are taught are a little too textbook-like and scientific. I can never remember what IMSAFE stands for. I'm also not too keen on the new idea of giving a numerical score to how safe a flight is going to be.
 
timrj said:
A little soon to be calling this "darker shades of blue" - If I recall from the last time I read that sad account there was a long. protracted history of disregard for safety - are you saying that is also the case with this pilot?
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Did you read the link kkoran posted? Besides "Darker Shades of Blue" was not just about that one accident in the B-52.

Edit: I guess it's not a link any more but a pdf file. Here's the link.

http://www.pacaf.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-101210-079.pdf
 
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kyleb said:
They fly the airplane to a profile. Certain speeds, attitudes, G's, etc.

Like any other situation with an airplane, letting any of those get out of bounds at low altitude can cause you to have a bad day.
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I remember while working towards my PPC my CFI had me practice accelerated stalls in a turn. It felt just like this (video) looks: turn, tuRN, TURN, drop!!! The aircraft was clean, slow and at a high rate of bank, one little bit too much aft stick and .... You can see the burble and the the stall happen almost simultaneous. After that, things go to hell in a hand basket fast. Perhaps the thought of the neighborhood to the left caused a hesitancy to pushing the stick forward and left. We'll never know now. Sad to see. :sad:
 
timrj said:
Hmm - I missed a large section - it seems this pilot was a problem...

Sorry - my mistake
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You don't need to be sorry. When I read the press release I though they were being a bit harsh but then I also have the tendency to sometimes give pilots the benefit of the doubt. My first impression when I read about it and saw the video was they they got a little carried away on impulse and weren't able to recover. I didn't realize until I read the full report that the pilot had made unauthorized changes to the profile to be more of an audience-pleaser and had been doing this for a while. I don't know anything about C-17s but it's hard to believe that someone would intentionally hold an airplane in the shaker at a low altitude and in a steep turn for the sake of giving the audience a show. However I can see how someone might step a little bit over the line one time and when nothing bad happens step further and further each time. It's natural to become desensitized to certain things after repeated exposure. In some ways that's good or people would never develop the confidence to advance. I think it can also work in the wrong way, though, as in this case.
 
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You want to see Tony Kern or at least give his books a read. You don't however want to be a subject of either as that probably means you're dead.
 
Fast n' Furious said:
You want to see Tony Kern or at least give his books a read. You don't however want to be a subject of either as that probably means you're dead.
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I met his grandson last year. We spoke over s period of several weeks. Great stories he could tell. The g son runs a photo op in SoCal
 
Fast n' Furious said:
You want to see Tony Kern or at least give his books a read. You don't however want to be a subject of either as that probably means you're dead.
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I heard him speak at the Bombardier Safety Standdown a few years ago which, as I recall, I attended at your suggestion. :)
 
Fast n' Furious said:
You want to see Tony Kern or at least give his books a read. You don't however want to be a subject of either as that probably means you're dead.
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In fact, watching the video, I was almost certain that this was one of the incidents he talks about in "Redefining Airmanship," except that book came out in 1997. Maybe we just discussed it at one of the seminars by Dave Koch and the Center For Airmanship Excellence.
 
Do they have cockpit audio? Because I'm pretty sure someone is shouting "You a-hole you just killed us all!!!!!"
 
mantakos said:
If you watch the video, it looks like somebody just f'ing around in a big expensive plane with some low altitude show-boating. But that article suggests that they were practicing for an air show, which suggests, I suppose, that it was approved f'ing around low altitude show-boating.
-harry
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The flight was approved, the flight parameters were definitely not. The climb was supposed to be to 1500' and the bank 45*. They climbed to 800 and banked over 60*.
 
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