Monthly VOR checks

[RotorAndWing]

No, but you get to do the check again next flight if you don't.

That is, unless you dig up maintenance logs before every flight....

(d) Each person making the VOR operational check, as specified in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, shall enter the date, place, bearing error, and sign the aircraft log or other record.

Where does it state an entry must be made in a maintenance log?

 

[PPC1052]

I do an airborne check and compare the two nav radios. Asking if someone does it? Well, people are either legal or they aren't. Are you asking if people actually do them or just pencil whip them?

How about do them, but not log them?

 

[RotorAndWing]

How about do them, but not log them?

For IFR operations it must be "logged" (written down somewhere)

91.171 VOR equipment check for IFR operations.
(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft under IFR using the VOR system of radio navigation unless the VOR equipment of that aircraft—

(1) Is maintained, checked, and inspected under an approved procedure; or

(2) Has been operationally checked within the preceding 30 days, and was found to be within the limits of the permissible indicated bearing error set forth in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section.

(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, each person conducting a VOR check under paragraph (a)(2) of this section shall—

(1) Use, at the airport of intended departure, an FAA-operated or approved test signal or a test signal radiated by a certificated and appropriately rated radio repair station or, outside the United States, a test signal operated or approved by an appropriate authority to check the VOR equipment (the maximum permissible indicated bearing error is plus or minus 4 degrees); or

(2) Use, at the airport of intended departure, a point on the airport surface designated as a VOR system checkpoint by the Administrator, or, outside the United States, by an appropriate authority (the maximum permissible bearing error is plus or minus 4 degrees);

(3) If neither a test signal nor a designated checkpoint on the surface is available, use an airborne checkpoint designated by the Administrator or, outside the United States, by an appropriate authority (the maximum permissible bearing error is plus or minus 6 degrees); or

(4) If no check signal or point is available, while in flight—

(i) Select a VOR radial that lies along the centerline of an established VOR airway;

(ii) Select a prominent ground point along the selected radial preferably more than 20 nautical miles from the VOR ground facility and maneuver the aircraft directly over the point at a reasonably low altitude; and

(iii) Note the VOR bearing indicated by the receiver when over the ground point (the maximum permissible variation between the published radial and the indicated bearing is 6 degrees).

(c) If dual system VOR (units independent of each other except for the antenna) is installed in the aircraft, the person checking the equipment may check one system against the other in place of the check procedures specified in paragraph (b) of this section. Both systems shall be tuned to the same VOR ground facility and note the indicated bearings to that station. The maximum permissible variation between the two indicated bearings is 4 degrees.

(d) Each person making the VOR operational check, as specified in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, shall enter the date, place, bearing error, and sign the aircraft log or other record. In addition, if a test signal radiated by a repair station, as specified in paragraph (b)(1) of this section, is used, an entry must be made in the aircraft log or other record by the repair station certificate holder or the certificate holder's representative certifying to the bearing transmitted by the repair station for the check and the date of transmission.

 

[John Collins]

No, but you get to do the check again next flight if you don't.

That is, unless you dig up maintenance logs before every flight....

Sorry, but there is no regulation that supports your statement.

 

[jaybee]

No, you are ALLOWED to do the test if they share an antenna.

Otherwise, they must be independent.

There is nothing wrong with separate antennas.

I thought it was pretty clear, that if checking the VORs against each other as provided for in C that they must follow the rule of C and share the antennae.

If testing under the provisions of B there is no provision included for Dual VOR but for FAA approved test stations, FAA approved signal, Ground checkpoint or aerial checkpoint, you can test one, two, three or how ever many you want under the provisions of B in accordance with B.

I would be willing to alter my understanding of how I was taught this reg if you could cite a reference to what reg says "they must be independent."

 

[PPC1052]

For IFR operations it must be "logged" (written down somewhere)

duh.

Doesn't mean people do that though.

 

[RotorAndWing]

duh.

Doesn't mean people do that though.

 

[Everskyward]

I thought it was pretty clear, that if checking the VORs against each other as provided for in C that they must follow the rule of C and share the antennae.

How does your interpretation make sense, though? The validity of the test is based on the units being independent. The more independent the better. They are allowing the VORs to use the same antenna, not requiring it.

 

[PPC1052]

Yeah, that was my thought, too.

 

[John Collins]

I thought it was pretty clear, that if checking the VORs against each other as provided for in C that they must follow the rule of C and share the antennae.

If testing under the provisions of B there is no provision included for Dual VOR but for FAA approved test stations, FAA approved signal, Ground checkpoint or aerial checkpoint, you can test one, two, three or how ever many you want under the provisions of B in accordance with B.

I would be willing to alter my understanding of how I was taught this reg if you could cite a reference to what reg says "they must be independent."

The parenthetical phrase in "If dual system VOR (units independent of each other except for the antenna) is installed in the aircraft" excludes systems such as the old Bendix Nav System all in one units that had two VOR systems in the same physical unit and they shared the case and the power system, so they were not independent of each other even though they typically shared a common antenna. Standard VOR installations share the antenna, so without that wording to exclude the shared antenna, no VOR system could be independent of each other. This wording permits a common shared antenna, but does not mandate it. Parsing the sentence, the parenthetical clarifies the term "dual system VOR" with "units independent of each other". There is an exception added to "units independent of each other" with the exception phrase of "except for the antenna".

 

[MAKG1]

Where does it state an entry must be made in a maintenance log?

Lessee…

It's not logged in the airplane. It's not logged with maintenance. Just where IS this log that you're supposed to make? The reg doesn't say where you log it, but it does require that you actually do log it.

 

[jaybee]

How does your interpretation make sense, though? The validity of the test is based on the units being independent. The more independent the better. They are allowing the VORs to use the same antenna, not requiring it.

I see what you are saying.

I guess my instructor should give me a refund and the big name school he learned his interpretation at is teaching lots of people wrong

 

[PPC1052]

Lessee…

It's not logged in the airplane. It's not logged with maintenance. Just where IS this log that you're supposed to make? The reg doesn't say where you log it, but it does require that you actually do log it.

It needn't be in the maintenance log book. You can just keep a separate note pad and write it down. Nothing prohibits you from putting it in your flight bag and taking it home with you and back to the plane again the next time you fly, and nothing requires that you re-check and log the VOR check until the next 30 day period if you do so.

The regulation specifically states the entry is to be made in "the aircraft log or other record." That specifically contemplates writing it down somewhere other than the aircraft log.

 

[MAKG1]

It needn't be in the maintenance log book. You can just keep a separate note pad and write it down. Nothing prohibits you from putting it in your flight bag and taking it home with you and back to the plane again the next time you fly, and nothing requires that you re-check and log the VOR check until the next 30 day period if you do so.

The regulation specifically states the entry is to be made "the aircraft log or other record." That specifically contemplates writing it down somewhere other than the aircraft log.

Let me just say that, as a pilot who has been on the receiving end of such a strategy, that's quite rude to anyone else who would use the airplane.

Just tear off a piece of paper and keep it in an obvious place in the airplane such as with the W&B. It's not that hard, and it saves some swearing at an unfamiliar field as you cycle through all the local VORs to see what can be received on the ground.

Honestly, what's so hard about leaving a record in the airplane? Really? You guys make it sound like major surgery.

 

[jsstevens]

Let me just say that, as a pilot who has been on the receiving end of such a strategy, that's quite rude to anyone else who would use the airplane.

Just tear off a piece of paper and keep it in an obvious place in the airplane such as with the W&B. It's not that hard, and it saves some swearing at an unfamiliar field as you cycle through all the local VORs to see what can be received on the ground.

Honestly, what's so hard about leaving a record in the airplane? Really? You guys make it sound like major surgery.

In our club planes there is a page in the back of the record book (kept in the plane to record flights) where you fill it out and sign it.

John

 

[PPC1052]

Let me just say that, as a pilot who has been on the receiving end of such a strategy, that's quite rude to anyone else who would use the airplane.

Just tear off a piece of paper and keep it in an obvious place in the airplane such as with the W&B. It's not that hard, and it saves some swearing at an unfamiliar field as you cycle through all the local VORs to see what can be received on the ground.

Never gave that any thought, to be honest. There was no such log in my plane, and I just wanted to make sure that I have a record handy if I need it. My co-owner has been instrumented rated and an owner of our plane for far longer than I have been a pilot, so I figured he had his bases covered. If not, I guess he can always do a check on the ground at our home field with no problem before he takes off.

 

[JoeSelch]

Let me just say that, as a pilot who has been on the receiving end of such a strategy, that's quite rude to anyone else who would use the airplane.

Just tear off a piece of paper and keep it in an obvious place in the airplane such as with the W&B. It's not that hard, and it saves some swearing at an unfamiliar field as you cycle through all the local VORs to see what can be received on the ground.

Honestly, what's so hard about leaving a record in the airplane? Really? You guys make it sound like major surgery.

You didn't qualify that the plane was shared in your earlier assertions. So, it was entirely unclear that you were talking about "courtesy" vice "regulation."

 

[Everskyward]

I see what you are saying.

I guess my instructor should give me a refund and the big name school he learned his interpretation at is teaching lots of people wrong

This is how many aviation urban legends are spread, through CFIs and what people hear from others with a bazillion hours so they must be correct.

I will agree that the wording is not clear, but when you apply logic, and the explanation from John Collins above, it makes sense.

 

[jaybee]

This is how many aviation urban legends are spread, through CFIs and what people hear from others with a bazillion hours so they must be correct.

I will agree that the wording is not clear, but when you apply logic, and the explanation from John Collins above, it makes sense.

and it sounded reasonable to me when explained to me the other way :wink2:

i wasn't being snarky before either if it sounded that way.

 

[RotorAndWing]

You made this post:

No, but you get to do the check again next flight if you don't.

That is, unless you dig up maintenance logs before every flight....

So I said

Where does it state an entry must be made in a maintenance log?

Lessee…

It's not logged in the airplane. It's not logged with maintenance. Just where IS this log that you're supposed to make? The reg doesn't say where you log it, but it does require that you actually do log it.

Correct. It can be on a notepad, a roll of Charmin, a small note pad in the glove box, a sticky note on the glare shield, back of a business card in your billfold, etc, etc

Again, pilots are trying to read too much into very simple regulations.

Honestly, what's so hard about leaving a record in the airplane? Really? You guys make it sound like major surgery.

 

[petrolero]

Yeah I have a little aircraft log that I converted just for VOR checks. It stays in my center console. To be perfectly clear since this is PoA, this is not "the" aircraft log, it's "an" aircraft log that I bought from an FBO - blank except for my VOT entries.

Both VORs with date, test method, differential, and my signature. Fortunately, KAPA has a nice VOT that I can use quickly.

 

[TheGolfPilot]

This doesn't apply to people with only one vor unit.
But I just do the dual system check, with the plane off, when I am either prepping the plane or just hanging around admiring them when I have nothing to do.

There is nothing in the regs requiring the engine to be running when a VOR check is done.

 

[denverpilot]

I see what you are saying.



I guess my instructor should give me a refund and the big name school he learned his interpretation at is teaching lots of people wrong

Not beyond the realm of possibility. It has happened before.

Let me just say that, as a pilot who has been on the receiving end of such a strategy, that's quite rude to anyone else who would use the airplane.



Just tear off a piece of paper and keep it in an obvious place in the airplane such as with the W&B. It's not that hard, and it saves some swearing at an unfamiliar field as you cycle through all the local VORs to see what can be received on the ground.



Honestly, what's so hard about leaving a record in the airplane? Really? You guys make it sound like major surgery.

The only other two people flying my airplane aren't Instrument rated. I do just happen to write the VOT checks into a logbook we keep for fuel and flight time (it's just a leather bound journal book with lined paper that stays in the airplane) but they couldn't care less where I write it.

It could be in the notes field of my own flight logbook for all they care. Or the FAA. As long as I do the check and record it somewhere.

And the VOT on the field makes it easy. Just do it at engine start and it's done if the old one in the book was too long ago. Takes about 15 seconds. 20 if I spin the OBS from 180 to 360 just to make sure the OBS doesn't have any weirdness in flag flipping, since the standard one radial check wouldn't catch a dead flag indicator stuck on "To".

 

[jordane93]

All of our flight school's plane's clipboards have a VOR check line. I'm usually the only one to write it down.

 

[gkainz]

I used to get monthly VOR checks ... but then they went to direct deposit ...