Mnemonic for skipping course reversal

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poadeleted20

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It seems we're always going over the rules for when you're allowed to skip a published course reversal on a SIAP. It should not be harder to learn than ARROW for aircraft documents and AV1ATE for aircraft inspections, and both much easier and more important that roasted tomatoes or whatever that one is. Perhaps we just need to invent a good mnemonic for this:
  • Vectors to final.
  • Holding at the fix.
  • NoPT route.
  • Cleared "straight in".
Suggestions?
 
timwinters said:
For many it's reduced to ATE. :rofl:

But it's a super secret. You can't know without paying $$$$$ to find out.
Click to expand...
I guess you'll be waiting a long time for your payment. :D

Someone will not be able to resist posting what it is though...
 
Oh, not me!

Ron once said that he couldn't divulge the meaning because it was copyrighted.

Hint...go over to the red board, he gave it away in a duplicate post.

And I was serious when I said many are just ATE. Acually almost no one is AV1ATE.

It's a pretty dumb mnemonic. You'll be really disappointed.
 
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timwinters said:
Hint...go over to the red board, he gave it away in a duplicate post.
Click to expand...
Haha, I didn't even think that would work since I've never gotten a login for the Red Board, but you can read the messages if you are logged into the AOPA site.

Now I know the secret too, and it only cost me... my AOPA membership fee. :rofl:
 
Ron Levy said:
It seems we're always going over the rules for when you're allowed to skip a published course reversal on a SIAP. It should not be harder to learn than ARROW for aircraft documents and AV1ATE for aircraft inspections, and both much easier and more important that roasted tomatoes or whatever that one is. Perhaps we just need to invent a good mnemonic for this:
  • Vectors to final.
  • Holding at the fix.
  • NoPT route.
  • Cleared "straight in".
Suggestions?
Click to expand...

SHARP-T is the one I was taught.

Straight in
Holding
Arc
Radar Vectors
Procedure Turn NA
Timed Approach
 
Ron Levy said:
It seems we're always going over the rules for when you're allowed to skip a published course reversal on a SIAP. It should not be harder to learn than ARROW for aircraft documents and AV1ATE for aircraft inspections, and both much easier and more important that roasted tomatoes or whatever that one is. Perhaps we just need to invent a good mnemonic for this:
  • Vectors to final.
  • Holding at the fix.
  • NoPT route.
  • Cleared "straight in".
Suggestions?
Click to expand...

CleaN FiFi ?

This one is hard.
 
timwinters said:
Oh, not me!

Ron once said that he couldn't divulge the meaning because it was copyrighted.

Hint...go over to the red board, he gave it away in a duplicate post.

And I was serious when I said many are just ATE. Acually almost no one is AV1ATE.

It's a pretty dumb mnemonic. You'll be really disappointed.
Click to expand...

Ron hasn't studied copyright law and the 'fair use' clauses.
 
Ron Levy said:
It seems we're always going over the rules for when you're allowed to skip a published course reversal on a SIAP. It should not be harder to learn than ARROW for aircraft documents and AV1ATE for aircraft inspections, and both much easier and more important that roasted tomatoes or whatever that one is. Perhaps we just need to invent a good mnemonic for this:
Click to expand...
  • And you mean "when a course reversal is required" to get aligned on final, right?
    No, I don't think you''re looking for that mnomic, you want. one of those roasted tomatoes memory lists that promote robotic rote thinking.
    Robotic rote reaction is (can be) a very good teaching (learning) experience, when coupled with application and correlation of the subject. But never as the sole level of learning.
 
Everskyward said:
:rofl: I know ARROW but I've never even heard of AV1ATE.
Click to expand...
Required aircraft inspections:
Annual (12 months)
VOR check (30 days, IFR only)
100-hour (flight school/passengers for hire)
Altimeter/static (24 months, IFR only)
Transponder (24 months)
ELT - battery expiration and ops check (12 months)
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Sigh. Just what we need. ANOTHER one.
Click to expand...
Considering this is something pilots must know from memory and don't have time to look up in the FAR/AIM if the question arises, and both the posts on aviation web boards and my experience giving IFR refresher training tells me many pilots don't know it, I think maybe some sort of memory aid is in order. We certainly throw around plenty that do not have that imperative.
 
GauzeGuy said:
SHARP-T is the one I was taught.

Straight in
Holding
Arc
Radar Vectors
Procedure Turn NA
Timed Approach
Click to expand...
You can use that, although an arc is not automatically a course reversal canceller (they'll be marked NoPT if they are), and if it says "Procedure Turn NA," there's no course reversal to skip. Also, a timed approach falls under the Holding.
 
nosehair said:
And you mean "when a course reversal is required" to get aligned on final, right?
Click to expand...
No, I do not. If it's published, you fly it unless one of the four conditions apply, and "not required to get aligned on final" is not one of those conditions.
 
You don't need a mnemonic--it's like pornograghy, you know it when you see it. I never knew the five Ts either, or was it four? Those Ts just Trip me up.

dtuuri
 
dtuuri said:
You don't need a mnemonic--it's like pornograghy, you know it when you see it. I never knew the five Ts either, or was it four? Those Ts just Trip me up.

dtuuri
Click to expand...

I'm with you, I'm not a mnemonic fan, I spend more time sifting through and remembering the mnemonics than remembering the requirements.
 
Ron Levy said:
Prove that or withdraw your post.
Click to expand...

It was at least three years ago Ron. You used the term and I PM'ed you to asked the meaning. You responded that you couldn't divulge because it was copyrighted by P.I.C. (or whoever it is you work(ed) for).

I don't save three year old PM's.

But I guess my question would be, is it indeed copyrighted by P.I.C.? (or whoever it is you work(ed) for). If so, then how could I possibly know this if the above exchange hadn't occurred?

If it's not trademarked by P.I.C. (or whoever it is you work(ed) for) then I apologize for mis-remembering.

To your credit, I do see where you've shared the meaning on occasion on this board over the years.
 
timwinters said:
It was at least three years ago Ron. You used the term and I PM'ed you to asked the meaning. You responded that you couldn't divulge because it was copyrighted by P.I.C. (or whoever it is you work(ed) for).
Click to expand...
You do not have your facts straight. Find the PM or stop claiming that.
 
maybe you missed it Ron. I asked a question.

timwinters said:
But I guess my question would be, is it indeed copyrighted by P.I.C.? (or whoever it is you work(ed) for). If so, then how could I possibly know this if the above exchange hadn't occurred?
Click to expand...

Or maybe you conveniently ignored it,
 
Ron Levy said:
It seems we're always going over the rules for when you're allowed to skip a published course reversal on a SIAP. It should not be harder to learn than ARROW for aircraft documents and AV1ATE for aircraft inspections, and both much easier and more important that roasted tomatoes or whatever that one is. Perhaps we just need to invent a good mnemonic for this:
  • Vectors to final.
  • Holding at the fix.
  • NoPT route.
  • Cleared "straight in".
Suggestions?
Click to expand...

Yes, just remember:

  • Vectors to final.
  • Holding at the fix.
  • NoPT route.
  • Cleared "straight in".
Simple. :rolleyes:
 
Or maybe it was this:

Ron Levy said:
Not without violating copyright law and/or my contract with PIC, unless you want to call PIC and hire me to teach you
Click to expand...

Sorry for misremembering.
 
Ron Levy said:
It seems we're always going over the rules for when you're allowed to skip a published course reversal on a SIAP. It should not be harder to learn than ARROW for aircraft documents and AV1ATE for aircraft inspections, and both much easier and more important that roasted tomatoes or whatever that one is. Perhaps we just need to invent a good mnemonic for this:
  • Vectors to final.
  • Holding at the fix.
  • NoPT route.
  • Cleared "straight in".
Suggestions?
Click to expand...

Victor Had No Chance.
 
The one I use for this, as well as many other similar situations, is WIDAC.

When In Doubt Ask Controller.

Not only works really well but seems to be appreciated on both sides. Rarely needed in busy airspace when you don't want to contribute to frequency congestion.
 
timwinters said:
Or maybe it was this:



Sorry for misremembering.
Click to expand...
I don't think that had anything to do with the AV1ATE acronym, since that's not something PIC invented, printed, published, or copyrighted. And I don't see any link there to a post I made. Is that something of your own invention which you just made appear to be a quote from a post I made? Like this bogus example:
timwinters said:
I'm sorry, Ron -- I was wrong about you having said that.
Click to expand...
Quotation directly above is false, and never posted by Tim Winters -- just an example of how one can make something appear to be a quote from a post from someone else.
 
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