Incomplete logs from a half-century ago, with complete logs / AD compliance since, won't drop the price of most planes a penny, especially something like a 172. I don't really care if it was tweaked in 1969, if it's been flying OK since.
Not mine. One I see for sale, and was wondering if it's even worth sniffing any farther due to the log issue.
It depends. While I always prefer complete logs when performing pre-buys, it's not always a deal breaker in my recommendation. Unfortunately, there's is no single bench mark to follow as every aircraft purchase is unique and subjective to the person buying it. A path I always recommend is have a pre-buy done then sit with your mechanic and discuss the pros/cons of the aircraft. Compare it to the current market and develop an offer. If complete log history is considered a premium to you then put a value on it and deduct it from the offer. Keep in mind some types of aircraft complete logs is the norm where as for other types it's the exception.
That was kind of my thought. If it was dinged up in 1969 obviously whatever repairs they did have been successful for 50 years. Plus when it was a brand new plane one would think the repairs would have been taken seriously, not a cheapo patch job like you might find someone doing to a plane of that vintage today.
Am not. If someone is really that worried about what happened to the airplane from 1968 to 1972 he or she can find another.
Lots of buyers. Selling airplanes is a pain, but it isn't problematic. I am always up front about any squawks. I'd rather loose someone up front than after inspections and negotiations. I've yet to meet anyone that alarmed by a few years of missing logs from decades past.
And I made mine. Aircraft valuation involves lots and lots of factors. I have the feeling a corrosion free airframe and some decent avionics are gong to have a much larger effect on value than missing logs from the 1970s.
Curious. Define "some potential buyers." Based on my experience, and outside the 91.417 requirements, incomplete logs were involved in over 50% of the pre-buys I performed. However, in less than 10% of those was a value put on those missing logs. So if you are talking losing on 1 out of 10 potential buyers then it becomes more moot as that falls within any of the particulars, e.g. wrong paint color, corrosion, high times, etc., that may lead someone to not buy an aircraft. Wanting a complete aircraft history is great, and my preference, but the market as a whole doesn't put a substantial value on missing logs so I think the broad statement above is more realistic than not.
I don't disagree that missing logs affect the value, but how did you get to the 15% figure? Why not 5% or 30%?
.Key point which I believe sums up the answer to the OP's question and other similar discussions on PoA--which "should" represent a cross-section of the market we are discussing. Just need to up your limit to 100K.
I too would be interested in learning what the market bears today with regards to missing logs from a professional standpoint...15% is significant enough of a number to start a discussion. Given two aircraft of similar value, one has complete logs and the other doesn't, I don't see how someone could expect the same for both. Start at 15% and maybe you get beat up down to 5% or 10%. If you know the plane's history outside of the paperwork, then who cares..it's the stuff you DON'T know, which you mentioned in your example that can come back to haunt you.
Knocking 10K off an 80K aircraft which is about 12.5% for logs seems perfectly acceptable as a buyer, because now I have that money to fix any surprises that you didn't know about in that black hole of a time period that decide to manifest themselves while I am an owner. Maybe it's an AD that hasn't been complied with, or any other of the things you mentioned above. That's also highly dependent on the age of the plane, the amount of time missing, asking value, subsequent maintenance in documented years, etc.
Don't want to discount the price at all? Fine, I can move on, I'll let someone else roll the dice. It's when you get emotional and attached to a sale that you start compromising and rationalizing the missing time as "OK" instead of a real potential problem.
And yes I do agree that the content of the logs is super important. Simply having a logbook with cryptic or indecipherable documentation does no one any good, but at least they are "complete", whatever that means.
Glad it worked out for you in the end though, that's a great story
Yes the"factored hours" or whatever it was called came to mind, considering it's a Cherokee 180.
FYI: aircraft logbooks are not "government property."
Unless the FAA authorized person has taken custom them. (include the NTSB ) include any accident records.
