Misdemeanor charge question

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Flyer725

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Flyer725
Hello everyone. I'd like to start by apologizing if this is an incorrect place to share this question

My situation is that I am 25, currently hold a CPL (SEL) and recently been arrested for shoplifting(petty misdemeanor). This is my first and only offense and will likely be dismissed and sealed in the state in of NY which means I will NOT hold any criminal or misdemeanor CONVICTIONS as long as I do not do this again for 6 months. I understand there is no excuse or words to justify for this poor decision that I admit to. All I can say is that I pressured myself due to financial issues and have used this as a valuable learning experience that gave me a whole new outlook risk management.

My question is will this stop me for First Officer employment and is it really worth anymore to follow my dream to be an major airline pilot?

I understand that airlines look for clean records and I also intend to be honest about this incident on interviews.

I truly appreciate any help and advice. Please feel free to answer with reality and not hopefulness.

Thank you everyone.
 
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Were you actually arrested, as in transported in to a booking facility and booked, or issued a citation? Important technical difference in terms of reporting.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Were you actually arrested, as in transported in to a booking facility and booked, or issued a citation? Important technical difference in terms of reporting.
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It was actual arrest and transport to booking. I spent a couple hours there to take finger prints..
 
As far as your employers are concerned, nearly universally they are only permitted to asked about convictions. If you're doing a NY ACD and successfully completed it and have it dismissed, you are not convicted. The other question is for the medical application questions 18v and 18w. Taking what you say at face, this doesn't apply to either of these either. 18v covers drug/alcohol driving arrests and 18w only deals with actual convictions. A single YES on 18w provided it's not something that indicates substance abuse or some mental illness, isn't going to be an issue either.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
What is the entire story?! This is a Paul Harvey moment. What did you steal?
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Does it matter?? As I remember, some/most younger adults or kids do stuff they would never do later in life. Much will never make the police blotter or principals desk. Yeah, some may be squeaking clean growing up. I'd almost think that to clean could be a red flag too.

I think there are ways you can run a records check on yourself, to see what comes up. That may be an idea after a fair number of years.
 
GlennAB1 said:
I believe most employers ask: Have you been arrested within the past 10 years? At least, that's what I recall...
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In California, they'd be breaking the law if they did. Other states as well. Most people now only ask about convictions and possibly pending charges.
 
Convictions..???

Well, no, I always had good lawyers.....

Never offer up too much information.
 
Airline background checks are very extensive. They will find out one way or another so I'd be truthful and not lie about anything.
 
flyingron said:
As far as your employers are concerned, nearly universally they are only permitted to asked about convictions. If you're doing a NY ACD and successfully completed it and have it dismissed, you are not convicted. The other question is for the medical application questions 18v and 18w. Taking what you say at face, this doesn't apply to either of these either. 18v covers drug/alcohol driving arrests and 18w only deals with actual convictions. A single YES on 18w provided it's not something that indicates substance abuse or some mental illness, isn't going to be an issue either.
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True, but the question is usually worded as this:

"When we run a background check, will we find anything you haven't told us ?"

They are smarter than the law.
 
Fess up to it.

I'm generally forgiving, but you say it was RECENT, plus implied it was after you CPL.
IMO, that combo is not good.... and should not be good.
 
Kritchlow said:
True, but the question is usually worded as this:

"When we run a background check, will we find anything you haven't told us ?"

They are smarter than the law.
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100% truthful answer: "with all the misinformation available online, I don't know."

T o the OP: The only answer with any hint of reliability is to talk with an attorney who understands the law and state procedure and a professional aviation job consultant, instead of SGOTI with limited knowledge and far more interest in judging or helping.

And no, I'm not flaming them. After all, you asked here.
 
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Talk to a criminal defense attorney and see what kind of deal you can get. In my state charges can be expunged from your record.
 
"I was arrested for shoplifting, but the charges were dropped before trial" seems reasonable to me.

I had to answer to a licensing board for my profession in a similar manner: "I was arrested for having a fake ID, but the prosecutor dropped the charges prior to any trial." The result was that it was disclosed truthfully and it was obvious no conviction for any crime existed. Took the test and got my license without ever hearing about it again. The reason most states don't allow the "arrest" question is that there is a very low bar to being arrested, but actually being convicted should and does mean something.

Good luck.
 
aggie06 said:
"I was arrested for shoplifting, but the charges were dropped before trial" seems reasonable to me.

I had to answer to a licensing board for my profession in a similar manner: "I was arrested for having a fake ID, but the prosecutor dropped the charges prior to any trial." The result was that it was disclosed truthfully and it was obvious no conviction for any crime existed. Took the test and got my license without ever hearing about it again. The reason most states don't allow the "arrest" question is that there is a very low bar to being arrested, but actually being convicted should and does mean something.

Good luck.
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Good luck to you as well.
 
jordane93 said:
Airline background checks are very extensive. They will find out one way or another so I'd be truthful and not lie about anything.
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With all the CSI and law and order shows, most people have a rather grand video of these superhuman law enforcers, often this is slightly misguided.

I see some of my comments have been censored, but as I said before, run a FBI background check,
https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/identity-history-summary-checks

If it ain't there, it didn't happen.

It's also sad how the system victimizes people, you get unlawfully arrested, not convicted for lack of any evidence, or police misconduct, or whatever, and you still have to admit you were arrested?

This is basically saying that the police are never wrong, and if you are arrested you're guilty.
 
James331 said:
With all the CSI and law and order shows, most people have a rather grand video of these superhuman law enforcers, often this is slightly misguided.

I see some of my comments have been censored, but as I said before, run a FBI background check,
https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/identity-history-summary-checks

If it ain't there, it didn't happen.

It's also sad how the system victimizes people, you get unlawfully arrested, not convicted for lack of any evidence, or police misconduct, or whatever, and you still have to admit you were arrested?

This is basically saying that the police are never wrong, and if you are arrested you're guilty.
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You can tell the HR panel whatever you want. The OP was arrested and the charges were dismissed. That's what I would say. I was arrested for XXXXXX and the charges were dropped. Then ball is in their court now. Now if you do t answer truthfully and they come back and say how come you didn't report it? Well now it looks bad.
 
James331 said:
With all the CSI and law and order shows, most people have a rather grand video of these superhuman law enforcers, often this is slightly misguided.

I see some of my comments have been censored, but as I said before, run a FBI background check,
https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/identity-history-summary-checks

If it ain't there, it didn't happen.
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Except that it did. I do quite a bit of pro bono expunction work. One thing I always tell my clients is that expunction is a legal status. It means "the system" that you were in officially treats it as never having happened. There is a lot of benefit to that. But it doesn't mean the event is gone from unofficial sources that had the information. And these days there are plenty of those.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Except that it did. I do quite a bit of pro bono expunction work. One thing I always tell my clients is that expunction is a legal status. It means "the system" that you were in officially treats it as never having happened. There is a lot of benefit to that. But it doesn't mean the event is gone from unofficial sources that had the information. And these days there are plenty of those.
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So if it doesn't come up with a FBI check, how's it coming up for some HR lady?

And if you were "arrested" with no evidence, "case" tossed out, that's not being arrested, it's being kidnapped and held captive.
 
James331 said:
So if it doesn't come up with a FBI check, how's it coming up for some HR lady?

And if you were "arrested" with no evidence, "case" tossed out, that's not being arrested, it's being kidnapped and held captive.
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Spin it any way you want. The OP was arrested. If a tree falls and no one is around to hear, did it still fall?
 
James331 said:
So if it doesn't come up with a FBI check, how's it coming up for some HR lady?
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Google. Record check databases that still contain the information. The Facebook posts in which the accused and all his friends talked about it. Etc...

I don't disagree with you on "should." And I'm not talking about how to handle it or what or what not to disclose. I'm only mentioning the reality that very little of what is out there about us disappears entirely.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I don't disagree with you on "should." And I'm not talking about how to handle it or what or what not to disclose. I'm only mentioning the reality that very little of what is out there about us disappears entirely.
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The most eerie part of that is getting birthday notices from multiple websites about dead friends who've been dead for a decade. One guy in particular, I assume he never left passwords for family to anything, he both wouldn't have as a computer engineer, and he passed away in his late 40s, unexpectedly.

Every year like clockwork, three or four popular websites tell me to "wish him a happy birthday today!"

It's morbid and fascinating at the same time.

His family lives in the U.K. and never touched any of his online persona stuff at all when he passed. All they did was stop paying the bill on his personal domain and website, and that took a year or two to disappear.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Google. Record check databases that still contain the information. The Facebook posts in which the accused and all his friends talked about it. Etc...

I don't disagree with you on "should." And I'm not talking about how to handle it or what or what not to disclose. I'm only mentioning the reality that very little of what is out there about us disappears entirely.
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Deny someone employment based on Facebook school house gossip, couldn't that end up with a lawsuit, I mean I read on Facebook that Obama was a Muslim terrorist, yet no one tossed him in a prison camp, maybe if I get my friends to start a rumor on Facebook that Goldmansacs gave me a gold umbrella, they'll read it and give me one?

If a company makes its decisions based off Facebook you'd be doing yourself a favor not working for them, also reason #5421 I'm not on that childish site.


jordane93 said:
Spin it any way you want. The OP was arrested. If a tree falls and no one is around to hear, did it still fall?
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No, it didn't.


I've said it before, I'll say it again, if you get the full background check and the whatever thing doesn't come up, you're a fool if you get diarrhea of the mouth and start running your mouth about it.

95% of the time, its not what people DONT say which prevents them from getting that job, or lands then in trouble, it was they DO SAY which proves to be their demise.
 
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James331 said:
Deny someone employment based on Facebook school house gossip, couldn't that end up with a lawsuit, I mean I read on Facebook that Obama was a Muslim terrorist, yet no one tossed him in a prison camp, maybe if I get my friends to start a rumor on Facebook that Goldmansacs gave me a gold umbrella, they'll read it and give me one?

If a company makes its decisions based off Facebook you'd be doing yourself a favor not working for them, also reason #5421 I'm not on that childish site.




No, it didn't.


I've said it before, I'll say it again, if you get the full background check and the whatever thing doesn't come up, you're a fool if you get diarrhea of the mouth and start running your mouth about it.

95% of the time, its not what people DONT say which prevents them from getting that job, or lands then in trouble, it was they DO SAY which proves to be their demise.
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I will check Facebook on potential hires. Routinely.

If someone has a confederate flag as a profile picture, easy decision not to hire them.

Same with other "red flags" the person may have posted about their interests, and such.

When you rely on a "team" work environment, you don't need idiots that seek to divide in your employment.
 
James331 said:
Deny someone employment based on Facebook school house gossip, couldn't that end up with a lawsuit, I mean I read on Facebook that Obama was a Muslim terrorist, yet no one tossed him in a prison camp, maybe if I get my friends to start a rumor on Facebook that Goldmansacs gave me a gold umbrella, they'll read it and give me one?

If a company makes its decisions based off Facebook you'd be doing yourself a favor not working for them, also reason #5421 I'm not on that childish site.
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Making the hiring decision based on incorrect information would be a problem. But as much as that's what you want to talk about since you only see one side to the issue, it's not what I am referring to.

I'm not talking about idle chatter about someone, but posts by the person being looked at. And even when it's others talking about someone, it might bear further investigation. Searching Facebook and other social media posts of and about a prospective employee, employer, litigant, witness, boyfriend, girlfriend, seller, buyer, business, etc has become standard. There are surveys to indicate about three-quarters of recruiters and about half of all employers check out applicants online. Prospects have been rejected for indications of drug use, heavy drinking, offensive (in the eye of the beholder) materials, and more. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to find that, in certain industries, it might be considered a failure of due diligence failure to not having done it if problems that would have been uncovered arise later.

You obviously don't like that. That doesn't make it not so.
 
Sometimes I have to prove my identity to the bank for things like adding signators to the company account or doing a major transaction, and I have to spend some time on the phone with their ID verification department. Some of the questions they ask, like what was my street address thirty years ago when there would have been no apparent reason for it to have been recorded, are scary.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Sometimes I have to prove my identity to the bank for things like adding signators to the company account or doing a major transaction, and I have to spend some time on the phone with their ID verification department. Some of the questions they ask, like what was my street address thirty years ago when there would have been no apparent reason for it to have been recorded, are scary.
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You never had a bank account, loan or credit card back then? It sounds like standard info from a credit history.
 
JoseCuervo said:
If someone has a confederate flag as a profile picture, easy decision not to hire them.
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Apparently you don't know anyone in any Civil War re-enactment groups do you?

I bet the guy who plays the trumpet in the historical reenactment regimental band and fires the vintage cannons during the 1812 Overture at the 4th of July thing at the park, will be quite impressed with your shallowness.
 
James331 said:
No, it didn't.


I've said it before, I'll say it again, if you get the full background check and the whatever thing doesn't come up, you're a fool if you get diarrhea of the mouth and start running your mouth about it.

95% of the time, its not what people DONT say which prevents them from getting that job, or lands then in trouble, it was they DO SAY which proves to be their demise.
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Or they're just being honest with what actually happened. If someone arrested 30 years ago and it's not on their record anymore, they still got arrested. Doesn't matter how much time has passed.
 
JoseCuervo said:
I will check Facebook on potential hires. Routinely.

If someone has a confederate flag as a profile picture, easy decision not to hire them.

Same with other "red flags" the person may have posted about their interests, and such.

When you rely on a "team" work environment, you don't need idiots that seek to divide in your employment.
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You're a bigot
 
denverpilot said:
Apparently you don't know anyone in any Civil War re-enactment groups do you?

I bet the guy who plays the trumpet in the historical reenactment regimental band and fires the vintage cannons during the 1812 Overture at the 4th of July thing at the park, will be quite impressed with your shallowness.
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Nope. I don't know anyone that does Civil War reenactments. Most people I know have seen a vagina and don't play dress up.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Nope. I don't know anyone that does Civil War reenactments. Most people I know have seen a vagina and don't play dress up.
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I'll let the guy who volunteers to play Taps for about 100 military funerals a year here, know your opinion. I'm sure he'll find disparaging his work as a musician and historian as pathetic as I do.
 
denverpilot said:
I'll let the guy who volunteers to play Taps for about 100 military funerals a year here, know your opinion. I'm sure he'll find disparaging his work as a musician and historian as pathetic as I do.
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Dang. Now worried some one I have never met, will never meet, and have nothing in common with thinks I am shallow.

Oh my.
 
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