Minor In Consumption of alcohol help

  • Thread starter Thread starter Unregistered
  • Start date Start date
U

Unregistered

Guest
I'm not entirely sure if this particular question is 'medical' in nature, but I would REALLY appreciate any help I could get on this matter.

I'm currently preparing to fill out an Airman Certification and/or Rating Application (form 8710) before my Multi-Engine checkride. Block U of this form asks "Have you ever been convicted for violation of federal or state statutes relating to narcotic drugs, marijuana, or depressant or stimulant drugs or substance?" About 8 months ago I plead no contest to a charge of minor in consumption of alcohol and was charged with a $500 fine that I have since payed off. Would I have to mark "Yes" in this block? I'm not entirely sure if this question pertains to alcohol outside of perhaps a DUI/DWI (which would require reporting to the FAA anyways) or more specifically to a minor who got caught drinking a few beers; I'd much prefer not to have to mark it on this application but certainly would if necessary.

Thanks so much for your time!
 
Yes, you need to report it. You pled no contest to the charge so you now own this record. It is not serious if it is the only one. Don't get another one.

-Skip

ps: This is not an authoritative answer, because I am not a doc nor a lawyer. It is just the way I see it.
 
Thank you much for the reply. I do only have one to speak of and have absolutely no plans to receive another in the few months before my 21st. I guess my hope was that the aforementioned question would not pertain to a conviction of minor in consumption, but it appears that it probably does.

I suppose my main concern regarding this comes from 14 CFR Part 61.15 which states:

"61.15 - Offenses involving alcohol or drugs.

(a) A conviction for the violation of any Federal or State statute relating to the growing, processing, manufacture, sale, disposition, possession, transportation, or importation of narcotic drugs, marijuana, or depressant or stimulant drugs or substances is grounds for:

(1) Denial of an application for any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part for a period of up to 1 year after the date of final conviction; or

(2) Suspension or revocation of any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part."

Would anyone by chance know the likelihood of my application for a multi-engine rating being denied due to being convicted of an MIC?

Again thank you all for your time I really appreciate the help, I have been looking all over for answers about what to expect but have come up largely empty-handed.
 
First and foremost -- do not fill out and sign an FAA medical application until you hear from Bruce Chien here on this forum. He will provide valuable advice on how to report it and what you'll have to do to get medically certified at this point.

Now...

I can understand your preference, but the instruction is clear -- any "violation of federal or state statutes relating to narcotic drugs, marijuana, or depressant or stimulant drugs or substance," not just one related to driving. That means you will have to check "yes" on that question on every FAA medical application you ever fill out for the rest of your life. Not a pretty thought, is it? It is regrettable you didn't realize this sooner so you could have exercised better judgement, but this is not something you can fix -- all you can do at this point is make sure you keep your record clean from here on.

The only glimmer of sunshine is that the FAA does not take a "one strike and you're out" stand on this. You will have to jump through some hoops, but you will be able to proceed with your flight training and get your license. Bruce will tell you what those hoops are and how to jump through them cleanly -- take his advice! He's one of the nation's experts on difficult medical certifications, and you can take to the bank whatever he says.
 
""""""Have you ever been convicted for violation of federal or state statutes relating to narcotic drugs, marijuana, or depressant or stimulant drugs or substance?"""""

I'll go out on the limb here. Alcohol is not considered any of the above.
 
Old Geek said:
I think you should re-read his post. It's not about the medical.
Click to expand...

But it really is. You disclose, or dont disclose, on the medical app. And an adverse judgement based on the truth can impact your medical. An adverse judgement based on a lie can impact everything.
 
kgruber said:
""""""Have you ever been convicted for violation of federal or state statutes relating to narcotic drugs, marijuana, or depressant or stimulant drugs or substance?"""""

I'll go out on the limb here. Alcohol is not considered any of the above.
Click to expand...

I'm not a doctor, but I'm pretty sure alcohol is a "depressant".
 
My bad -- this does not fall under the question on the 8710-1 because alcohol does not fit within those parameters, so the OP can answer "no" on that one. However, my post above will apply to the OP's next 8500-8 medical application, so getting some advice from Bruce now is a real good idea, and making absolutely certain that no other alcohol-related problems occur between now and then (and I do mean none -- zip, nada, nil) is absolutely essential to continued flying.
 
Thank you for your answers everybody. It was a regrettable decision but it is the only thing on my record.

As mentioned in a post earlier I was wondering if alcohol would be considered any of what was listed; I would've expected them to clearly state the word "alcohol" in the question but I suppose "depressant substance" may also fit alcohol.

My biggest concern at the moment is with FAR Part 61.15, which states:

"61.15 Offenses involving alcohol or drugs.

(a) A conviction for the violation of any Federal or State statute relating to the growing, processing, manufacture, sale, disposition, possession, transportation, or importation of narcotic drugs, marijuana, or depressant or stimulant drugs or substances is grounds for:

(1) Denial of an application for any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part for a period of up to 1 year after the date of final conviction; or

(2) Suspension or revocation of any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part."

Does anyone know the likelihood of my application for my Multi-Private being denied due to this?

Again thank you all for your help.
 
Old Geek said:
And I'm pretty sure coffee is a "stimulant".
Click to expand...

But getting arrested for being stimulated on coffee (caffeine) is about as likely as wining powerball. On the other hand, getting arrested for public intoxication, poession as a minor, or even disorderly conduct, as a result of a "depressant" would (again, not a Dr. Or Lawyer) qualify and is plausible.
 
Thank you for your answers everybody. It was a regrettable decision but it is the only thing on my record.

As mentioned in a post earlier I was wondering if alcohol would fall under the parameters of the question (I would assume they would use the word "alcohol" in the question if it applied but not sure if it falls under depressant...substance").

If I do need to check "Yes", my new biggest concern would be with FAR Part 61.15, which states:

"61.15 Offenses involving alcohol or drugs.

(a) A conviction for the violation of any Federal or State statute relating to the growing, processing, manufacture, sale, disposition, possession, transportation, or importation of narcotic drugs, marijuana, or depressant or stimulant drugs or substances is grounds for:

(1) Denial of an application for any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part for a period of up to 1 year after the date of final conviction; or

(2) Suspension or revocation of any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part."

Does anyone know the likelihood of my application for my Multi-Private being denied due to this?

Again thank you all for your help, I have been searching for answers all over and have been coming up empty handed.
 
Mattl said:
But getting arrested for being stimulated on coffee (caffeine) is about as likely as wining powerball. On the other hand, getting arrested for public intoxication, poession as a minor, or even disorderly conduct, as a result of a "depressant" would (again, not a Dr. Or Lawyer) qualify and is plausible.
Click to expand...
One more time -- alcohol is not a "depressant" within the context of that question on the 8710-1. And caffeine is not a "stimulant" within that context, either.
 
OP here again, apologies for the multiple and redundant replies. They had appeared to not be going through (I am quite new to this site).

Thanks to Ron and others for the answers- it appears that the general consensus so far is that alcohol does not fit under the question and therefore I may mark it with the answer "No"; I would however appreciate any other opinions on the matter should anyone else have one (the more sure the better!).

And I again cannot stress how thankful I am for the help here.
 
OP again. Was researching the 8500-8 form (medical) for further insight and such, and came across this excerpt on the instructions page:

""Substances" include alcohol, PCP, marijuana, cocaine, amphetamines, barbiturates, opiates, and other psychoactive chemicals."

Does this mean I will have to check the box "Yes"? Or does the 8710 form not follow this, and alcohol remains outside of the parameters I posted about earlier? I find it odd that on the 8710, marijuana is listed by name yet alcohol is not, and again marijuana is listed under this (8500-8) definition by name.
 
I'm a little concerned that you have said, "I only have one to speak of". WTHeck is that- you have another that was suppressed?

But simply put, if you lie on the 8710, it is a permanent lie and any pilot certificates that you earn subsequently can be revoked. Yes, alcohol is a depressant. I have helped out a Piedmont based airman who stopped short of his 8710 lie so that he would not have a second lie on top of his omission(s) on his medical.

Skip Miller is quite correct. If that is the only one, it will not have much consequence. But if you omit it, and you have another, the record will be examined very carefully and that will include court records, and you will lose it all. ALL of it.

The Federal Government can make you wish to J_sus that you had never been born. Seriously, lying is a terrible idea.
 
Unregistered said:
OP again. Was researching the 8500-8 form (medical) for further insight and such, and came across this excerpt on the instructions page:

""Substances" include alcohol, PCP, marijuana, cocaine, amphetamines, barbiturates, opiates, and other psychoactive chemicals."

Does this mean I will have to check the box "Yes"? Or does the 8710 form not follow this, and alcohol remains outside of the parameters I posted about earlier? I find it odd that on the 8710, marijuana is listed by name yet alcohol is not, and again marijuana is listed under this (8500-8) definition by name.
Click to expand...
The instructions for the 8500-8 apply only to the 8500-8.

And please tell me you had this incident after, not before, you applied for your Student Pilot/Medical Certificate on an 8500-8, or if it happened before, that you checked "yes" and explained it. If it happened before, and you didn't report it on the 8500-8, you need legal help ASAP.
 
Last edited:
Dear Tiny Jesus, in Your golden fleece diapers with Your tiny, little fat balled up fists... should You ever allow mortals to travel in time, please don't let Orville and Wilbur see what a bureaucratic mess has been imposed upon imperfect mortals wishing nothing more than to slip the surly bonds of earth, put out their hand, and touch Your face. :(
 
catmandu said:
Dear Tiny Jesus, in Your golden fleece diapers with Your tiny, little fat balled up fists... should You ever allow mortals to travel in time, please don't let Orville and Wilbur see what a bureaucratic mess has been imposed upon imperfect mortals wishing nothing more than to slip the surly bonds of earth, put out their hand, and touch Your face. :(
Click to expand...

Amen.
 
catmandu said:
Dear Tiny Jesus, in Your golden fleece diapers with Your tiny, little fat balled up fists... should You ever allow mortals to travel in time, please don't let Orville and Wilbur see what a bureaucratic mess has been imposed upon imperfect mortals wishing nothing more than to slip the surly bonds of earth, put out their hand, and touch Your face. :(
Click to expand...
Amen.
 
For entertainment purposes and since you are postling anonymously, can you at least tell the story of how you got caught (if it's good)
 
bbchien said:
But simply put, if you lie on the 8710, it is a permanent lie and any pilot certificates that you earn subsequently have ever earned in your life, before or after this application can be revoked.
Click to expand...

There. Fixed that for you, Dr. Bruce.

OP, (and others), please understand that if you lie, they revoke ALL of your airman certificates, not just the one that you were applying for when you lied. If they let you re-apply after one hear, you are taking check rides for everything you ever had that you want back. Private. Instrument. Multi. Commercial. I suppose you might be able to combine some, if that makes you feel better.
 
PPC1052 said:
There. Fixed that for you, Dr. Bruce.

OP, (and others), please understand that if you lie, they revoke ALL of your airman certificates, not just the one that you were applying for when you lied. If they let you re-apply after one hear, you are taking check rides for everything you ever had that you want back. Private. Instrument. Multi. Commercial. I suppose you might be able to combine some, if that makes you feel better.
Click to expand...

IIRC we only get one pilot's certificate each superseding the former. They did not take away your time and training, so say you hold a SE Comm you would not have to take the PP exam again, just the CP I'm pretty sure.
 
PPC1052 said:
OP, (and others), please understand that if you lie, they revoke ALL of your airman certificates, not just the one that you were applying for when you lied. If they let you re-apply after one hear, you are taking check rides for everything you ever had that you want back. Private. Instrument. Multi. Commercial. I suppose you might be able to combine some, if that makes you feel better.
Click to expand...
Nope -- one practical test for each certificate/rating, with the exception of the new rule allowing a combined PP/IR ride. You will also have to retake all the writtens.
 
Ron Levy said:
Nope -- one practical test for each certificate/rating, with the exception of the new rule allowing a combined PP/IR ride. You will also have to retake all the writtens.
Click to expand...

All the writtens, or just for the highest ratings? I have a CP I have to take Comm & IR, but I thought I could skip the PP.
 
That's an interesting point. Is having a private certificate a prerequisite to applying for a commercial certificate?
 
I can go get a copy of the last revokation order I got and quote it if you want. It specficially directs that you return all airman certificates, plural. Oh yeah, it includes your medical, as well. I forgot that one. One client I had, they demanded that he return his A/P as well.

I don't know the specifics on the procedure to reapply. But my point is, they don't just deny you the multi-engine. They take everything-- even your basic privileges as a VFR private pilot.
 
Last edited:
Henning said:
All the writtens, or just for the highest ratings? I have a CP I have to take Comm & IR, but I thought I could skip the PP.
Click to expand...
All the writtens. You would not be eligible to take the CP until you have a PP, and you would not be eligible to take the PP practical until you take the PP written. The only thing you keep is your experience.
 
So do you have to get a student pilot certificate and get signed off to solo in order to practice for the pp practical test?
 
Henning said:
All the writtens, or just for the highest ratings? I have a CP I have to take Comm & IR, but I thought I could skip the PP.
Click to expand...

You would have to talk to your local FSDO about the intricate details of the reapplication process if you have mulitple ratings. I don't know all of that. But the FAA strips every privilege you have if they believe you misrepresented material facts. When I spoke to the FAA about the process, they advised that the client would have to reapply from scratch, including the written and a check ride for just a private certificate. The only benefit the client had was that he at least had the years of experience from which to draw upon during the reapplication process. Obviously those hours would still count toward the experience pre-requistites.
 
Henning said:
IIRC we only get one pilot's certificate each superseding the former.
Click to expand...

You are correct with respect to the privileges to operate as a pilot. Sorry about my sloppy language. But a mechanics certficate (A/P) is a separate airman's certificate. They will ask for that one, too.

Henning said:
They did not take away your time and training, so say you hold a SE Comm you would not have to take the PP exam again, just the CP I'm pretty sure.
Click to expand...
I don't know that one for sure. Ask the FSDO what you would need to do.
 
Old Geek said:
So do you have to get a student pilot certificate and get signed off to solo in order to practice for the pp practical test?
Click to expand...

You would have to apply for a student certificate/medical certificate, because they yank your medical as part of the process. (And the applicant would tell the truth when completing it this time, presumably.) There will likely be additional hoops to jump through to prove that the items that you failed to disclose are not disqualifying. All of the stuff and hoops that Dr. Bruce has talked about in the medical application process still would apply.

If I recall, the prerequisites for the private certificate include dual instruction within a certain period of time prior to the application process. That would still apply. I presume there are similar requirements for the other ratings, but I am not familiar with those.
 
Palmpilot said:
That's an interesting point. Is having a private certificate a prerequisite to applying for a commercial certificate?
Click to expand...

You can jump categories. IE private airplane to commercial helicopter without ever holding a private helicopter rating.
 
Ron Levy said:
All the writtens. You would not be eligible to take the CP until you have a PP, and you would not be eligible to take the PP practical until you take the PP written. The only thing you keep is your experience.
Click to expand...

I think it is pretty clear that getting your certificate yanked for failing to disclose something as a highly certificated pilot would pretty well suck.
 
OP here.

Thanks everyone for further answers.

Bruce- "One to speak of" as in only one. It appears then that I will be checking the box "Yes". It is definitely not in my interest to lie on an official form.

Ron- Incident did indeed occur long after I had gotten my medical.

Andrew- Not a very interesting story. College buddies and I were going tubing on a river, and I was 20 at the time. We had a few beers on the way down, and unfortunately some cops were hanging out around at the end and started breathalyzing us. I blew about a .04, which would be legal to drive in most states, but because i was underage i was given the citation.
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top