Minimum XC PIC time before starting Instrument training

1200AGL said:
Interesting. I didn't realize that. The 141 IR programs I'd looked at, local and otherwise, want 50 hrs XC as a prerequisite.
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That's the individual school's choice, and probably based on experience -- folks who don't complete the program in the "advertised" 35 hours tend to be dissatisfied and create bad publicity, and folks with little or no XC PIC time tend to take longer than the minimum to train. It is not, however, a requirement in Part 141.
 
Ron Levy said:
That's the individual school's choice, and probably based on experience -- folks who don't complete the program in the "advertised" 35 hours tend to be dissatisfied and create bad publicity, and folks with little or no XC PIC time tend to take longer than the minimum to train. It is not, however, a requirement in Part 141.
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Makes sense. When I was in Colorado last fall, they told me they had a high success rate getting people finished in the minimum time. I'm still considering crashing in my friend's basement out there for a month or so once I have the XC time :)
 
1200AGL said:
Makes sense. When I was in Colorado last fall, they told me they had a high success rate getting people finished in the minimum time. I'm still considering crashing in my friend's basement out there for a month or so once I have the XC time :)
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If that's an option, totally the way to go. I did finish mine with the minimum 40 hours but it was strung out over 6-7 months and that sucked. If I had to do it again, i'd take an accelerated course and knock it out. There is a good reason accelerated IR courses are so popular.
 
1200AGL said:
Makes sense. When I was in Colorado last fall, they told me they had a high success rate getting people finished in the minimum time. I'm still considering crashing in my friend's basement out there for a month or so once I have the XC time :)
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You might also consider us.
http://www.iflyifr.com
We're not a 141 school, but we have a lot of experience doing IR's. If you don't have your own plane to use, we have arrangements with a number of FBO's around the country to use theirs.
 
1200AGL said:
Makes sense. When I was in Colorado last fall, they told me they had a high success rate getting people finished in the minimum time. I'm still considering crashing in my friend's basement out there for a month or so once I have the XC time :)
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Who's "they", out of curiosity?
 
Ron Levy said:
Depends on the instructor. With highly experienced professionals, you're likely to go up in any weather that's safely flyable. OTOH, experience suggests that a lot of the low-time 300-hour flight school types with no significant weather flying experience don't like going up in actual weather other than on the long XC. We at PIC average 5000 hours flight time on hire, and we tend to fly in the weather as long as there's no issues with ice, thunderstorms, excessive turbulence (interferes with training), or getting back into the home base (I don't go if it isn't at least 200 feet and 1 mile above mins).
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Ron Levy said:
It shouldn't worry you. These recommendations are based on experience giving instrument training, and the conclusion that the training goes better if you have more XC PIC time.

There is no XC PIC requirement to enroll in a Part 141 IR program, just a PP certificate. However, a 141 IR program must be a minimum of 35 hours of instrument training. Some of that can be in a sim, but it all must be with an instructor -- no practice time with a non-instructor safety pilot.

You certainly can do that, but my experience suggests that other than in a full-time professional training program, you'll do better with some seasoning first -- go fly different places, work with ATC, etc. Once you're comfortable doing that, then start your IR training.
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Nice answers, here - thanks! I'd like to do some flying in VFR around the Mid-Atlantic, anyway, just so I can enjoy being a pilot before going right back into learning some more stuff. Not that I don't enjoy learning (I have a thirst for knowledge that cannot be quenched), I just need a break here and there.
 
alfadog said:
This is what I mean. Can you show me something that says that is LOP? By "way lean" I wonder if he "put up with" a bit of roughness to save fuel.
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Oh please, can you give it a rest? :rolleyes: On the ground for taxi, I lean it so if I advance the throttle beyond 2000RPM or so, the engine will sputter and die. Full rich for t/o & climbout. In the air, I lean it by slowly pulling the mixture till it gets rough then I rich it by 3 or 4 twists on the vernier knob. Never had a fouled plug.
 
MSPAviator said:
Oh please, can you give it a rest? :rolleyes: On the ground for taxi, I lean it so if I advance the throttle beyond 2000RPM or so, the engine will sputter and die. Full rich for t/o & climbout. In the air, I lean it by slowly pulling the mixture till it gets rough then I rich it by 3 or 4 twists on the vernier knob. Never had a fouled plug.
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You can also play with using a bit of carb heat to smooth it out and then lean some more.
 
alfadog said:
Why can't some of the 45 be XC? Also, does he want dual for all 45 hours?
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I guess I wasn't clear. I meant that he wants me to have 45 XC hours before starting. I suppose he is planning on doing lots of local flying. There are several different type instrument approaches close to here.
 
MBDiagMan said:
I guess I wasn't clear. I meant that he wants me to have 45 XC hours before starting. I suppose he is planning on doing lots of local flying. There are several different type instrument approaches close to here.
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I realized that, see my later reply. You were not so unclear :)
 
1200AGL said:
Makes sense. When I was in Colorado last fall, they told me they had a high success rate getting people finished in the minimum time. I'm still considering crashing in my friend's basement out there for a month or so once I have the XC time :)
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We don't use that kind of language around here, young man.
 
I fully agree with getting some x-country seasoning first. Especially as much into busy airspace as soon as you are ready/if that's feasible. At least always be on flight following to talk with controllers.

I did it part 141, and considered myself lucky to get 7.something hours actual during my instrument training. There was simulator too, which isn't as nice as flying, but much better for simulating things like actually flying out a lost comms procedure, or the first time you realize how slowly the attitude indicator goes out on you and pulling yourself out of the unusual attitude. Things you just wouldn't try in the plane itself.
 
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