Min Distance by plane?

Caramon13

Caramon13

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Romeo
I've got a meeting schedule up in Jacksonville next week and I'm based out of KSRQ. Drive time for me is about 4 hours one way.

Flight time is half that.

It's a pretty important meeting so I am thinking of driving it even though it's going to be a major pain in the @#$ because I don't want to risk missing it. But it got me thinking..what is the minimum distance point-to-point that you guys consider flying as an option?

Half day? Full day? Multiple days?

Cost-wise if I did decide to fly it, I'm looking at about a $700 difference in cost since I'm renting. That's not including the Uber I'd need at the airport to get to the meeting.

The only reason I'm considering it is because I really don't want to spend 8 hours on the road for a 1 hr meeting. Flying gets me back in time to actually enjoy my day instead of sitting in gridlock traffic during rush hour before a holiday..

Ideas?
 
Too many reasons not to in this scenario. If you could go the day before maybe, but that doesn’t fit with everything else you said.
 
Salty said:
Too many reasons not to in this scenario. If you could go the day before maybe, but that doesn’t fit with everything else you said.
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Too many reasons not to fly it you mean? Just want to make sure I understand.
 
Yeah. If you could afford to miss it or be late, maybe. But this is a recipe for the beginning of an accident chain.
 
Salty said:
Yeah. If you could afford to miss it or be late, maybe. But this is a recipe for the beginning of an accident chain.
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Gotcha thanks. Commitments aside do you have a minimum distance that you use to determine fly or drive?
 
Caramon13 said:
Gotcha thanks. Commitments aside do you have a minimum distance that you use to determine fly or drive?
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For something time critical I won’t fly myself ever, unless the only way it would be possible to do it would be to fly myself (I’ve never come across that one and I’m always looking lol)

For something not critical, I’ll fly if there’s any way I can make it make sense at all. Lol

I fly to the airport 10 minutes away to eat lunch now and then. I’ve flown to apopka

For me, it’s more of a max than a min limit. My wife and I are taking commercial to AZ next week because I don't have 4 days to spend flying back and forth for a few day visit on the other end.
 
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Also my company won’t allow me to fly myself so I’m sitting in an airport now waiting for a flight I could have done faster myself. (But not cheaper)
 
I will, without hesitation, use the plane to fly back to AZ (255 nm direct)for an occasional meeting, from where I keep my plane in San Diego. Sure beats a 6-hour drive each way. I have a small SUV waiting for me in my shadeport in Phx, so no Uber requirements.

I used it to get from San Diego to Ontario (94 nm) for a meeting, and that that distance, it was a wash. Between prep, pre-flight, and shutdown processes, it was pretty much a tie, and I had to get an Uber one way, while a co worker took be back to the airport the other way. But I really enjoyed using the plane, and looked down in amusement at the traffic gridlocked on I-15 in California.

I guess at 94 nm I identified my "minimum distance", give or take. A distance anything less than that, and

  • I'm doing it because I stubbornly WANT to
  • there's an overriding factor (holiday traffic)
  • it's part of a bigger plan involving another leg to somewhere else.

Your sig line indicates you have your instrument rating. That increases the likelihood that you'll make your meeting, but, as you know, it's nothing near a 100% guarantee.
 
Salty said:
Also my company won’t allow me to fly myself so I’m sitting in an airport now waiting for a flight I could have done faster myself. (But not cheaper)
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I was fortunate to find that, following an acquisition of a GA-friendly company, my employer now has a GA-policy. I'm a named pilot in the firm. With prior approval I can fly myself to meetings, and get reimbursement for mileage.
 
Rgbeard said:
I was fortunate to find that, following an acquisition of a GA-friendly company, my employer now has a GA-policy. I'm a named pilot in the firm. With prior approval I can fly myself to meetings, and get reimbursement for mileage.
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I hate you. You could have lied and said “me too”!
 
I don't have a lot of experience using my plane for actual functional transportation, but in terms of practicality and time-saving, it would have to be a darn long car ride for me to save time by using my plane. 40 minute drive to the airport, 30 minutes preflight, fuel if needed, loading gear/luggage etc., then the flight, then renting a car at the destination (if necessary). Coincidentally, a four hour car ride is about the break-even point time-wise at Cherokee cruise speeds.. maybe a little less. Then, there's the expense side of the equation, the weather side... it doesn't add up so good most of the time.

When you want to go someplace a bit further AND aren't on a specific schedule AND don't mind the extra expense of flying and car rental, then the plane starts to look real good.
 
Thanks guys. Just really not looking forward to spending all that time on the road RIGHT before a holiday heh..UGH. And @Rgbeard you are correct that I do have my instrument rating but I am not current so, can't file IFR. I could do an IPC this weekend and get current, but no sense doing that if I'm driving it.

It would be a VFR flight, which is no big deal since most route is over Echo airspace. There's a cluster of restricted areas in the middle of the state, however they are often cold, so I can use them most times. When they are hot, it's a minor re-route.
 
194 miles is was airnav told me from SRQ to JAX (if those are the correct airports, +/-). It's past my personal choice to fly it vs. drive.

What's the likelihood that your VFR trip will be successful? I don't know much about Florida weather except that pop-up thunderstorms are a daily factor of life there.

I say fly it and have fun. YMMV.
 
2 hours I would still drive it since...

20 minutes to airport
20 minutes to get stuff ready
1 hour of flight time

I've only saved 20 minutes, and I'm usually not going to the airport, so still have probably 20 minutes plus to tie down and get a courtesy car and to where I'm going. Unless I have someone picking me up or meeting me there.
 
If its more than about 30 minutes driving, I'd rather fly. So... basically anytime I leave town, its in an airplane.
 
Rgbeard said:
194 miles is was airnav told me from SRQ to JAX (if those are the correct airports, +/-). It's past my personal choice to fly it vs. drive.

What's the likelihood that your VFR trip will be successful? I don't know much about Florida weather except that pop-up thunderstorms are a daily factor of life there.

I say fly it and have fun. YMMV.
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I’d be more concerned about mx issues with a rental myself, but maybe his situation is better than I’ve seen around here.

Again, if it’s a critical meeting I wouldn’t risk it. Could you tell your boss you missed the meeting because you tried to fly yourself and not feel embarrassed?
 
@Rgbeard Yeah that's the route basically KSRQ to KJAX. I've flown it before VFR and IFR. Pop up storms CAN be a problem for sure in the interior of the state, but usually not on the coasts, not in the late afternoon or evening. They start there and then bubble up over the middle of the state. I've flown here enough to be able to route around them when possible, but I have also had to sit them out at fields along the way. Not too worried about them around 1 PM ish when I'd be leaving, but if it was 3 PM or later, yeah I'd be concerned. I can get from coast to coast in about an hour-ish (roughly).

@EdFred thanks. I forget to factor in the "getting ready" time costs sometimes. For this trip I'd basically have to be on the road by 5:30 AM if I'm driving. If I'm flying I'd get there at 6 AM (5 mins from airport), pack up and hopefully get out no later than 6:30 AM - 7:00 AM, which means I'd get there around 9:00 AM, taxi, park maybe 9:30 AM, get an uber which is about a 25 min drive from the airport..it's pretty close.

@Salty Yeah, I've had planes I've rented crap out on me so that's definitely a concern too. The real clincher is that if I decide to fly it and get to the field at 6 AM and anything is wrong with the plane I will either miss or be late to the meeting since I really have to be on my way by 6 AM at the LATEST.

Sounds like I'm driving it guys...:(
 
Salty said:
I’d be more concerned about mx issues with a rental myself, but maybe his situation is better than I’ve seen around here.

Again, if it’s a critical meeting I wouldn’t risk it. Could you tell your boss you missed the meeting because you tried to fly yourself and not feel embarrassed?
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I was discounting the rental maintenance concern. Any where I've rented planes in the Southwest, I've never had concerns.

I do get the criticality concern. Especially with a VFR limitation.

To not make the meeting, or be a half-hour late, would be, possibly, an unwelcome topic of discussion.
 
So far my minimum distance has been about 3 miles. But I was at one airport and need to meet someone at another airport.
My favorite is airshows that I can fly into, I have flown 15 miles to the airshow (Blue Angels were the highlight show) airport spent the day and flew back and was back home watching the news about how bad the traffic was from the airshow before most people had left the parking lot.
Also got to taxi my 172 to the runway following a B-52, fortunately they had me take off in front of the B-52.

As to the OP's trip if it were me I would leave the flying option open if I really wanted to fly. Sounds like he is renting the plane, So I would see if I could check the plane out the night before to make sure it is available and airworthy. Where I rent, I would often have a backup plane available if necessary. And of course verify it was not going to be marginal weather for the route.
I would then make the final call about driving or flying the night before.


Brian
 
@brcase Yeah I'm renting it. Unfortunately here in SW FL I often can't find a primary plane let alone a backup one :). I have flown the one that is available before though I definitely would check it out ahead of time. It's still a week out so I have no idea what the weather is going to do. Mother nature may make the decision to drive a lot easier to handle.

@texasclouds I really want to man...I love long XC flights :).
 
Salty said:
Yeah. If you could afford to miss it or be late, maybe. But this is a recipe for the beginning of an accident chain.
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How? People do this type of thing all the time.

I don’t see any reason why this would be the beginning of an accident chain. If all of your flight planning metrics align with your skillset, than I don’t see any reason not to commit aviation and go.
 
Ryanb said:
How? People do this type of thing all the time.

I don’t see any reason why this would be the beginning of an accident chain. If all of your flight planning metrics align with your skillset, than I don’t see any reason not to commit aviation and go.
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Yeah, if you live in a world nobody ever forgets to put their gear down or flies into bad weather or ignores a mechanical issue until it kills them, then I guess it’s impossible for this to be the first link in an accident chain.

I live in a world where people find themselves in bad situations due to their previous decisions and it kills them.

All it takes to prevent an accident is to avoid it at some point before it happens. Sometimes that point is during planning, like he’s doing right now.
 
Salty said:
Yeah, if you live in a world nobody ever forgets to put their gear down or flies into bad weather or ignores a mechanical issue until it kills them, then I guess it’s impossible for this to be the first link in an accident chain.

I live in a world where people find themselves in bad situations due to their previous decisions and it kills them.
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I get all of that, but you seem to propose the idea that this flight is somehow more likely to lead to an accident than another. Stepping into any airplane is the the first chainlink to an accident, just make that clear.

I don’t see how this mission is any different than any other flight. You can either make it safely or you can’t, so you bag the flight and make arrangements for alternative transportation. Correct me if I’m wrong.
 
Ryanb said:
I get all of that, but you seem to propose the idea that this flight is somehow more likely to lead to an accident that another. Stepping into any airplane is the the first chainlink to an accident, just make that clear.

I don’t see how this mission is any different than any other flight. You can either make it safely or you can’t, so you bag the flight and make arrangements for alternative transportation. Correct me if I’m wrong.
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The difference is that he will miss an important meeting if anything goes wrong, which he either has to accept (which is a bad outcome for him) or try to ignore (which may be an even worse outcome).

He’s putting himself in a position where it’s way too easy to make a bad decision later.
 
Ryanb said:
How? People do this type of thing all the time.

I don’t see any reason why this would be the beginning of an accident chain. If all of your flight planning metrics align with your skillset, than I don’t see any reason not to commit aviation and go.
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This is the beginnings for "get-there-itis".

When you absolutely believe your meeting is critical, and you have to be ontime, it adds a pressure, possibly becoming the beginning a chain of events.

Add to it these things:
  • Oil's a quart low? Can't find an oil can/spout? F** it, I don't have time. Let's get this bird in the air.
  • Ceilings at the destination airport became 2,000' broken/ovc, and it wasn't a forecast condition? Drop down a few feet and scud run it.

And a few more things that I'll let others bring up - yeah, a must-do-meeting/deadline is a common feature in the chain of events for many an aviation accident/fatality.
 
A lot of factors here.

- How far are you from the airport?
- how far is your destination from its airport?
- how long is the flight vs driving?

Generally I’ve found a 3 hour drive is about the point where flying won’t save you time vs driving. There are exceptions though. I’m Pennsylvania there were a lot of twisty roads where a 30 minute flight would turn into a 3 hour drive. That would make the plane substantially faster. At a 1 hour flight vs 3 hour drive it was break even.

If I lived right next to the airport and owner the plane with a destination right next to its airport, it would probably be a break even point at a 2-hour drive.

If you’re just meeting someone at the airport for a quick pick-up/drop-off then flying can be a lot faster. Many variables.
 
Salty said:
Also my company won’t allow me to fly myself so I’m sitting in an airport now waiting for a flight I could have done faster myself. (But not cheaper)
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Same here. :(

Fortunately I don't travel much for work. We went to a vendor convention several weeks ago. I took the short (36 min?) commercial flight there instead of the 4+ hour drive. I wish I could have flown up private. Two others drove up, but not on my schedule. It would have taken my longer to fly than the short commercial hop, but it would have evened out with the all the downtime at the airport, going through security, getting to the terminal, waiting to board, ...
 
Salty said:
The difference is that he will miss an important meeting if anything goes wrong, which he either has to accept (which is a bad outcome for him) or try to ignore (which may be an even worse outcome).

He’s putting himself in a position where it’s way too easy to make a bad decision later.
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Ok, so tell me this. Last summer a relative passed away. The service was in a town half way across the state. Could I have drove the 3.5 hours to get there? Of course, but the forecast was nice, the airplane was there, so I elected to fly. Could something have gone wrong along the way that would have prevented me from making this appointment? Of course, but the odds were no higher than any other flight.

Get-there-itis applies when someone doesn’t have the ability to determine that the flight or situation in which they’re about to undertake is beyond a reasonable circumstance (ie., Wx is below personal minimums or something similar) yet they proceed with the flight anyway because they just ‘have to get there’. Had the weather have been questionable, yet I still elected to fly instead of drive, then get-there-itis would have kicked in and increased the risk factor for the flight.

In OP’s case as well as the one I just shared of my own, driving was always an option, so if all else failed, I could’ve resorted to that in order to meet my obligation to be at the funeral service. So, if things don’t work in his favor to fly himself to the meeting that he has to be at, a car with four wheels is readily available to carry him there. :)
 
My boss has a don't ask, don't tell policy.
Typically I book a backup airline flight when I have to be somewhere, sometimes upgraded to a refundable fare on my dime so if I make it flying myself, I get my money back. Worked great when I was in a place with Southwest as the dominant carrier, not so good here in the land of smaller airports. I usually tried to time it so my first fuel stop, or destination, was before the other flight would leave so I could hit the FBO wifi and cancel. Admittedly, if I hit a fuel stop and had a problem, then I was just hosed.
 
Caramon13 said:
The only reason I'm considering it is because I really don't want to spend 8 hours on the road for a 1 hr meeting. Flying gets me back in time to actually enjoy my day instead of sitting in gridlock traffic during rush hour before a holiday..

Ideas?
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For up and back in a day for a short meeting, I'd say fly. Two hours of flying from SRQ to JAX sounds like you need to fly something faster. ;)

Does that 4 hours each way include construction and accident delays?

With multiple airports around Jacksonville you can pick the one closest to your destination.

You're right at the cusp or just over it on flying versus driving for us:

Our youngest daughter goes to South Carolina. That's ~3.5 hour drive one-way. If we're going for the weekend, we typically drive; I have flown when I got an Angel Flight mission coming back to the Atlanta area on Sunday. When we go for the day I fly; helping bring stuff to move in or when we went to be in the totality of the solar eclipse.

Our middle daughter is in Lexington. That's ~ 6 hours each way, and I have run into construction and accident delays making it 7.5 hours. :( I've driven it twice. Once to move her into the dorm her freshman year; I moved her out in a Baron. Then this year when I couldn't get a plane due to maintenance. All the other times we've flown.​
 
H
Ryanb said:
Ok, so tell me this. Last summer a relative passed away. The service was in a town half way across the state. Could I have drove the 3.5 hours to get there? Of course, but the forecast was nice, the airplane was there, so I elected to fly. Could something have gone wrong along the way that would have prevented me from making this appointment? Of course, but the odds were no higher than any other flight.

Get-there-itis applies when someone doesn’t have the ability to determine that the flight or situation in which they’re about to undertake is beyond a reasonable circumstance (ie., Wx is below personal minimums or something similar) yet they proceed with the flight anyway because they just ‘have to get there’. Had the weather have been questionable, yet I still elected to fly instead of drive, then get-there-itis would have kicked in and increased the risk factor for the flight.

In OP’s case as well as the one I just shared of my own, driving was always an option, so if all else failed, I could’ve resorted to that in order to meet my obligation to be at the funeral service. So, if things don’t work in his favor to fly himself to the meeting that he has to be at, a car with four wheels is readily available to carry him there. :)
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He simply has little control of the mechanical soundness of a rental to risk on an important meeting. He doesn’t have time to change plans. If, as I said already, he could go up the day before, or even be late with mild repercussions, then I’d agree with you, but that defeats his purpose of making it a quick trip and costs him even more.

Most bosses can understand a traffic jam, as opposed to “there was a big thunderstorm and I wanted to wait for it to pass”.
 
Since I live 5 min from the airport and own my plane there is no min distance to fly. There just has to be a place to land. I will defiantly try to fly most trips if it involves more than two hours in the car.
 
Rgbeard said:
Is this meeting important enough to drive up the night before?
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It is pretty important yeah. It has the potential to change a bunch of things right now in a positive way, so I definitely do not want to risk missing it. The driving estimate is between 3 hours and 40 minutes and 4 hours and 40 minutes. So it has me leaving at 5:20 AM to make it there in time if it skews towards the longer duration.

On the way back the drive time goes as high as 5 hours and 10 minutes. So at worst could be 10 hours or more of just driving for a 1-2 hr meeting.
 
wayne said:
For up and back in a day for a short meeting, I'd say fly. Two hours of flying from SRQ to JAX sounds like you need to fly something faster. ;)

Does that 4 hours each way include construction and accident delays?
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Tell me about it :) I don't have access to a lot of fast aircraft where I live. The best I can hope for is a Piper Arrow and those are usually booked at some point during the day. Lots of CPL/CFI training going on and they need the complex for that. The best I can get is a 172S which ain't quick.

The 4 hours is the worse on the way up, it could be 5 hours or more on the way back...<sigh>
 
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