Millennials

Half Fast said:
Tim, you should put these guys one at a time into the right seat of your plane and take them for a ride so they can understand the pilot's perspective and workload. Y'know, I'm surprised that familiarization rides aren't part of ATC training.

On the flip side, it would probably be good for all pilots to do a tower visit. I know I'd like to, but I never seem to get around to it. Soon....
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I do, well the ones that I like anyway, and for just that - for them to see how hard it is to see traffic and to see that sometimes you have to listen to an ATIS while still talking to ATC, but most importantly, as an incentive to get their ratings. So far I've taken six of them up.
 
Tim, when I was flying HEMS from Safford or Sierra Vista I would routinely go through DM. I was amazed at the number of times I had to evade aircraft as they would never tell the AF aircraft where I was or what I was doing, it was like I was invisible and did not exist. And they all sounded like kids on the radio to me.
 
skier said:
How do you expect millennial to know what a rough engine is when they’re all driving electric cars? Most of them have probably never seen, let alone used a relic like an internal combustion engine.
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How rough was it? Just a teensy bit? Or about-to-quit rough? In this case it sounds to me like it was teensy bit rough! LOL!

-Skip
 
-KLB- said:
Very few millennial have driven cars with carburetors. It has probably been 30 years since I drove a car with a carburetor. EFI often seems to go straight from running to not, without going through a rough running phase, so why should they understand it?
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Given the number of pilots who fly a glidesope in a jet like they’re trying to keep the engines running with an accelerator pump, I thought carburetors were still common. :rolleyes:
 
MauleSkinner said:
Given the number of pilots who fly a glidesope in a jet like they’re trying to keep the engines running with an accelerator pump, I thought carburetors were still common. :rolleyes:
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Maybe because I haven't flown a jet, but I don't get it, care to explain?
 
dmspilot said:
Maybe because I haven't flown a jet, but I don't get it, care to explain?
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As student pilots we’re taught to set a target power in the pattern and add flaps at appropriate times so that, other than minor adjustments, we really don’t mess with power until we pull it to idle for landing.

Same with the instrument training...we find target pitch/power/configuration settings as the basis for various phases of flight, and make small adjustments from there.

We teach that same thing in jets, but some guys don’t seem to grasp it...whether it’s poor potty training or just not being aware of what they’re doing I don’t know, but I’ve seen guys go from over 90% thrust to idle, back and forth, using just about every thrust setting EXCEPT something near the target. I once counted 13 thrust changes between glideslope intercept and DA, which translates to a major thrust change every 6 or 7 seconds.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I've about had it with them..the controllers that is. Some of them aren't good at life and have apparently been sheltered. We had a pattern full of A-10s when a Cessna just off of Tucson airport wanted to fly over the boneyard which isn't allowed. After denying the request he then said that he had a rough engine. My local controller just rogered him and went into why we can't allow civil aircraft to fly over the boneyard during wing flying. The Cessna came back with, "I have a rough engine and would like to be handed back off to Tucson." I told the coordinator to tell Tucson the Cessna had a rough engine and wanted to go back to them. Then I told the local controller to hand him off.

Local, coordinator and ground control all looked at me like I was nuts for showing a sense of urgency. "What's a rough engine?" they ALL asked and said they'd never heard that phrase before.

Its time to retire...again.
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I couldn't wrap my head around this at first. I thought, surely he means "automatic rough". I can understand a non pilot not knowing what that means, but no, you are saying there are beings that look like adult humans with jobs no less, who don't know what a "rough engine" is. smh
 
MauleSkinner said:
Given the number of pilots who fly a glidesope in a jet like they’re trying to keep the engines running with an accelerator pump, I thought carburetors were still common. :rolleyes:
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I had a IOE Captain beat that out me thankfully. One approach he reached over and grabbed my hand while saying “FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP”. He kept his hand there to prevent me from adjusting more then a few percent.
 
skier said:
How do you expect millennial to know what a rough engine is when they’re all driving electric cars? Most of them have probably never seen, let alone used a relic like an internal combustion engine.
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You are assuming, of course, that they have a driver's license. I guess that's not a safe assumption anymore.
 
skier said:
How do you expect millennial to know what a rough engine is when they’re all driving electric cars? Most of them have probably never seen, let alone used a relic like an internal combustion engine.
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Actually very very few millennial drive electric cars. We (males) view any other person our age who drives an electric vehicle to have given up their man card entirely. Not many females that I know drive electric vehicles either, so that blows that theory.
 
I'm not a millennial, but I drive a hybrid, and I don't care what other men think of my man credentials.
 
skier said:
How do you expect millennial to know what a rough engine is when they’re all driving electric cars? Most of them have probably never seen, let alone used a relic like an internal combustion engine.
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I drive a muscle car with long tube headers and no cats. It even has a manual transmission!
 
Was it rough or just 'a teeny bit rough' ?
 
Morgan3820 said:
Actually, I met one the other day. Got me good when I was copying a lenghty clearance.
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I had filed for a trip to rdu from lns with only two waypoints. The controller came back with routing involving eight waypoints, which took me around the west side of the sfra. After copying the clearance, while the plane is running, I submitted a new flightplan to with only one waypoint. I did this thinking I could change my destination back to rdu enroute. So getting back up with the controller, he sees the new flightplan. He says 'nice try, but the new routing has even more waypoints, advise when ready to copy'. After politely expressing disbelief, he confesses that he was pulling my leg. 'I just wanted to see your reaction'. Hilarious for a controller.
 
A lot of the kids just starting out in clearance delivery like to sound cool and read it fast. That is when I tell them to grab a pen and some paper and follow me down to the 6th floor where the recorder is located. I key it up to where they read the clearance and then tell them to get ready to copy it down. Then I play it back for them while they try to copy what is said. They all get that "oh, yeah, I see your point now" look. It usually slows them down so pilots can copy it without any errors. Broadcasting it fast may be cool but when they have to repeat part of it because the pilot wasn't fast enough to write it all down, it slows things down.
 
Timbeck2 said:
A lot of the kids just starting out in clearance delivery like to sound cool and read it fast. That is when I tell them to grab a pen and some paper and follow me down to the 6th floor where the recorder is located. I key it up to where they read the clearance and then tell them to get ready to copy it down. Then I play it back for them while they try to copy what is said. They all get that "oh, yeah, I see your point now" look. It usually slows them down so pilots can copy it without any errors. Broadcasting it fast may be cool but when they have to repeat part of it because the pilot wasn't fast enough to write it all down, it slows things down.
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Roughly what percentage of controllers are also pilots?
 
Timbeck2 said:
A lot of the kids just starting out in clearance delivery like to sound cool and read it fast. That is when I tell them to grab a pen and some paper and follow me down to the 6th floor where the recorder is located. I key it up to where they read the clearance and then tell them to get ready to copy it down. Then I play it back for them while they try to copy what is said. They all get that "oh, yeah, I see your point now" look. It usually slows them down so pilots can copy it without any errors. Broadcasting it fast may be cool but when they have to repeat part of it because the pilot wasn't fast enough to write it all down, it slows things down.
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Good job.

Attached is an example of what can happen when a clearance isn't read slowly enough.
 

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Timbeck2 said:
A lot of the kids just starting out in clearance delivery like to sound cool and read it fast. That is when I tell them to grab a pen and some paper and follow me down to the 6th floor where the recorder is located. I key it up to where they read the clearance and then tell them to get ready to copy it down. Then I play it back for them while they try to copy what is said. They all get that "oh, yeah, I see your point now" look. It usually slows them down so pilots can copy it without any errors. Broadcasting it fast may be cool but when they have to repeat part of it because the pilot wasn't fast enough to write it all down, it slows things down.
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Y’all hear how fast I talk? That’s how fast I listen.
 
Timbeck2 said:
A lot of the kids just starting out in clearance delivery like to sound cool and read it fast. That is when I tell them to grab a pen and some paper and follow me down to the 6th floor where the recorder is located. I key it up to where they read the clearance and then tell them to get ready to copy it down. Then I play it back for them while they try to copy what is said. They all get that "oh, yeah, I see your point now" look. It usually slows them down so pilots can copy it without any errors. Broadcasting it fast may be cool but when they have to repeat part of it because the pilot wasn't fast enough to write it all down, it slows things down.
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Why is fast considered cool? I don’t quite understand that.
 
Timbeck2 said:
A lot of the kids just starting out in clearance delivery like to sound cool and read it fast. That is when I tell them to grab a pen and some paper and follow me down to the 6th floor where the recorder is located. I key it up to where they read the clearance and then tell them to get ready to copy it down. Then I play it back for them while they try to copy what is said. They all get that "oh, yeah, I see your point now" look. It usually slows them down so pilots can copy it without any errors. Broadcasting it fast may be cool but when they have to repeat part of it because the pilot wasn't fast enough to write it all down, it slows things down.
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I used to just make them record it again until I was satisfied it was slow enough. But I like your method more better! ;):)
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Roughly what percentage of controllers are also pilots?
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None that I work with. None that I know of anymore at Tucson tower or the Tracon. I would say the percentage of controllers who are pilots is represented pretty accurately here on this forum.
 
mscard88 said:
I used to just make them record it again until I was satisfied it was slow enough. But I like your method more better! ;):)
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I think you are referring to the ATIS which is automated now. The only thing that gets "recorded" is something the software voice recognition doesn't recognize. Then is sounds like one of those answering machine messages "hello you have reached "Steve Johnson". We're sorry can't come to the phone right now..."
 
SkyDog58 said:
Why is fast considered cool? I don’t quite understand that.
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I don't either. However, when I'm in local and it gets busy, I'm a pretty fast talker but then again one has to be. Clear and concise is the key even if you talk fast.
 
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