Military jets takeoff / landing on highway

I recall Apaches took a lot of BDA from ground fire during OIF 1. Much of that could be attributed to the flat desert terrain, which takes away the most effective tactic for attack helos, the ability to terrain mask, hover over friendly forces, and use the standoff range advt of their hellfires. That was the plan back when the Fulda Gap was center stage.
 
Ed Haywood said:
I recall Apaches took a lot of BDA from ground fire during OIF 1. Much of that could be attributed to the flat desert terrain, which takes away the most effective tactic for attack helos, the ability to terrain mask, hover over friendly forces, and use the standoff range advt of their hellfires. That was the plan back when the Fulda Gap was center stage.
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Yeah they did that one deep strike early in the war that was a disaster. Almost all the aircraft took hits. Iraq as a whole ended with rotor wing aviation with the most losses. Army Aviation in particular.

C40D022A-201D-4794-8D51-FE750C0BF8B2.jpeg
 
The disadvantage we have is that dozens of different groups in the US are pushing for their own agenda. The Marines are looking for their own survival, and that means a unique roll. The Army wants aviation assets under their own control. The Air Force seems to like high tech toys mostly. Lots of people are supporting their economic interest in whatever technology suits their company/congressional district the most. But this is also an advantage. First gulf war? How many different platforms were the Iraqi armor units concerned about? They had so many different air assets coming at them, that some units thought they were under air attack when the first M-1's rolled in. Diversity in technology is a good thing.
 
Meh, I've been through half a dozen REFORGER exercises and saw just about every NATO jet there is take off from a street.
 
NoHeat said:
“This is believed to be the first time in history that modern Air Force aircraft have intentionally landed on a civilian roadway on U.S. soil,” said Air Force Col. James Rossi,"
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Nope. Not even close.

I've delivered over 15,000 pounds of JP8 to highway landing strips in a helicopter in order to support quick rearm/refuel of attack aircraft several times in a few countries INCLUDING the USA.

I guess the good Colonel has not been around long...
 
Ed Haywood said:
I recall Apaches took a lot of BDA from ground fire during OIF 1. Much of that could be attributed to the flat desert terrain, which takes away the most effective tactic for attack helos, the ability to terrain mask, hover over friendly forces, and use the standoff range advt of their hellfires. That was the plan back when the Fulda Gap was center stage.
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We all did.
 
Velocity173 said:
I can say that on my “CAS card” AV-8s were overhead just as much as any other coalition aircraft. Those guys had a high op tempo in both OEF and OIF. They have their weaknesses (loiter time / weapons load) but they still performed admirably
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Sparkle is a beautiful thing.
 
IK04 said:
Sparkle is a beautiful thing.
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Actually used sparkle once but maybe it’s a different term than what you’re referring to.

Was on night QRF in Afghanistan and got dispatched to extract a SEAL / Afghan Commando team that was taking fire from a small village. They sent a Chinook with me (Ugh) for chalk 2. Anyway, we show up and I’m looking out for the LZ at 2 o’clock and GPS shows 2.5 km. I ask the ground contact to “sparkle” to help me ID their position. A split second later, I see the bright flash of his laser directly below us through my chin bubble. I chuckle over the ICS “the grid TACOPs gave for the LZ is the village.” Basically his sparkle pretty much saved us from landing in the same village they were taking fire from. That would’ve been fun.
 
Velocity173 said:
Actually used sparkle once but maybe it’s a different term than what you’re referring to.

Was on night QRF in Afghanistan and got dispatched to extract a SEAL / Afghan Commando team that was taking fire from a small village. They sent a Chinook with me (Ugh) for chalk 2. Anyway, we show up and I’m looking out for the LZ at 2 o’clock and GPS shows 2.5 km. I ask the ground contact to “sparkle” to help me ID their position. A split second later, I see the bright flash of his laser directly below us through my chin bubble. I chuckle over the ICS “the grid TACOPs gave for the LZ is the village.” Basically his sparkle pretty much saved us from landing in the same village they were taking fire from. That would’ve been fun.
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Yep. We put three Chinooks on separate pinnacles in zero illum using sparkle from the British Harriers (GR-9s?) It looks like a burning bush under the goggles.
 
Velocity173 said:
Actually used sparkle once but maybe it’s a different term than what you’re referring to.

Was on night QRF in Afghanistan and got dispatched to extract a SEAL / Afghan Commando team that was taking fire from a small village. They sent a Chinook with me (Ugh) for chalk 2. Anyway, we show up and I’m looking out for the LZ at 2 o’clock and GPS shows 2.5 km. I ask the ground contact to “sparkle” to help me ID their position. A split second later, I see the bright flash of his laser directly below us through my chin bubble. I chuckle over the ICS “the grid TACOPs gave for the LZ is the village.” Basically his sparkle pretty much saved us from landing in the same village they were taking fire from. That would’ve been fun.
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We called that a Rope. A Lasso was an IR chemlight on 550 cord, swung in a circle. Sparkle was designation of point of impact by laser, usually from the air but sometimes from a ground element. Not the itty bitty IR pointers on our rifles, but a more powerful system like a SOFLAM. Been a very long time since I messed with one, but I seem to recall they had a proof code to ensure the weapon went for the right beam.
 
Ed Haywood said:
We called that a Rope. A Lasso was an IR chemlight on 550 cord, swung in a circle. Sparkle was designation of point of impact by laser, usually from the air but sometimes from a ground element. Not the itty bitty IR pointers on our rifles, but a more powerful system like a SOFLAM. Been a very long time since I messed with one, but I seem to recall they had a proof code to ensure the weapon went for the right beam.
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I think we used “buzz saw” for the chem light on 550 cord. As I recall, only got to use that once as well in Kosovo.
 
Ed Haywood said:
… SOFLAM. .
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Ugh. SOFLAM is/was pulse coded. Loved it for ground-based lasing, but not worth the hassle after about 2008 or so when LTLM and IZLID started fielding. Ny 2014 or so short wave IR was the cat’s meow for a lot of specialty work.
 
Velocity173 said:
I think we used “buzz saw” for the chem light on 550 cord. As I recall, only got to use that once as well in Kosovo.
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That sounds about right. Sparkle a target, rope the fighter, buzzsaw was friendly locations on a cord. I don’t think sparkle was IR/laser specific, but IIRC both rope and buzzsaw were IR specific.
 
TCABM said:
Ugh. SOFLAM is/was pulse coded. Loved it for ground-based lasing, but not worth the hassle after about 2008 or so when LTLM and IZLID started fielding. Ny 2014 or so short wave IR was the cat’s meow for a lot of specialty work.
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08 is when I punched out, so clueless on anything after that.
 
Velocity173 said:
I think we used “buzz saw” for the chem light on 550 cord. As I recall, only got to use that once as well in Kosovo.
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You might be right. Back in the olden days when I was in infantry, I was told by the helo guys in the 25th that they preferred this method. That was before everyone had IR lasers on their rifles. They hated strobes, even with the IR hood, because it washed out their NODs. When I went SF, we would use an IR strobe at long distance, but turn it off when the birds approached.
 
hindsight2020 said:
I still think these MAF chuckleheads take the GOAT cake :D
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I can look out the window of my 6th floor office and see that airfield clearly. I kick myself that I was not at work that day. Best part was the CENTCOM Commander, GEN Mattis, was on board the aircraft.

I gotta say one of the most impressive parts of the Air Force to me is the way they let young pilots hand fly the heavy birds. The C-135 tankers at MacDill AFB are often in the pattern there. They fly it like a Cessna 172, rectangular pattern at 1000 AGL, with base to final about 1 mile from the numbers. That C17 wasn't flying some fancy approach, just straight in VFR.

In their defense, Davis Islands is almost a perfect miniature replica of MacDill peninsula, and the runways do line up.

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hindsight2020 said:
I still think these MAF chuckleheads take the GOAT cake :D
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Most impressive part of that is they pulled it off without planning to. I know the C-17 is obviously capable, but usually they would brief it first.

Same for the crew of the SW 737 that landed at the wrong airport in Branson.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Most impressive part of that is they pulled it off without planning to. I know the C-17 is obviously capable, but usually they would brief it first.

Same for the crew of the SW 737 that landed at the wrong airport in Branson.
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Like that old Bob Newhart about the 2 pilots on approach:

"Wow, that runway is short"
"Holy cow, that runway is really short."
"Man, that runway was short. I'm amazed we stopped in time."
"Yeah, but it sure was wide."
 
3500 ft for the C-17. This Tomcat landed on 4,000 ft at Craig at night so I imagine he got on the brakes hard. Both runways (5/23) for CRG and NRB are also aligned similar to the McDill example. Confirmation bias.

9D5C74B8-D95B-4D31-B963-5CDEE28F3AFA.jpeg
 
Another civilian incident I recall was the TWA Mad Dog that landed at Craig CO (5600’, CAG) instead of Hayden (10000’ HDN) and slid off into the mud. TWA required two Captains in the cockpit at the time. How long those two remained Captains I don’t know. I was in town at the time and it made great Apres Ski talk.

https://www.steamboatpilot.com/news/big-jet-misses-airport-ends-up-stuck/

Cheers
 
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