Interesting, does it just sublimate the ice off? Or are you going so fast that it can never really nucleate onto the wings?
Sorry, yes, was thinking of F18, F15, those types.. Science channel had a special on carriers last night and some of the conditions they took off in from the boat looked pretty dicey and it made me wonder.. I assume bigger, slower planes like the B2, and civilian derived jets like the KC-135, KC-10, etc., kept their civilian icing systems
Fighter/bombers don’t have wing anti-ice other than the noted inlet and pitot heat.
and yes still married to the Skyrocket...the lineboy today acted like he'd seen a unicorn.
I'm not dead yet...lol I've been around, I just fly under the radar
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My father probably helped build that plane!I'm not dead yet...lol I've been around, I just fly under the radar
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All the KC-135 had was engine anti ice. No wing anti-ice.
You would get a Multi-engine rating, with a centerline thrust restriction.
If it has more than one engine, you need a multi rating. If you get your multi in an airplane with inline engines, your ticket will be restricted to center-line thrust or that's the way it was back when.
I assume yes, but true for the V-22 as well? The props are connected with a shaft.. so.. what's the restriction based on that?
V-22 is powered lift, it’s a little bit different.
No, an R22 or Chinook are both helicopter class.
Indeed, I can only speak for my wingless widowmaker. I don't know the specific airframe dynamics of more "blunt fighters".
The relationship between indicated temperature at the probes (TAT displays and OAT gonkulations by the ADC) is generally going to be an installation specific measurement of the RAM RISE, which is generally described in Kelvin (Celsius is 1-to-1, so C works just as well). That is the measurement of temperature increase by kinetic heating to a singularity point, or static pressure aka dynamic Psub-o=0. This is only true at a single point (line) in the wing leading edge camber, or similar interference junction(s) in the airframe. Anywhere else in the airframe and you're not heating it as much, by definition.
At any rate, I went ahead and charted the ram rise formula for a set of airspeed conditions.
View attachment 71392
Consider the icing band (rime-mixed-clear) goes from -20C to +2C. That means that accumulation in flight-critical areas (induction architecture, wings, flight controls) would have to rise a net 22C degrees worst case, in order to act as a bona fide natural anti-ice. This occurs around 400 KTAS, which is lower than my original 500-600 wag, but does not account for the fact that none of the aircraft surfaces that do not stop the flow to zero, are in fact being heated to such a degree. This is where the specific geometry of the fighter in question comes into play.
By the time you arrive at sonic and supersonic true airspeeds, then yes it is self-evident by the graph above that you are now in earnest using kinetic heating to defeat the icing band.
All that said, this is all to do about nothing. Fighters don't cruise in the icing altitudes for the vast majority of their profile. So they could hang by the min mach if they wanted to and it would still be too cold up there to get ice. I still contend I wouldn't go punching through a mass of SLD visible moisture at 350 true at 6-9K and expect to sublimate those gulps of supercooled water away. In the -38 at least, you'll shed ice from the lips and trash the turbojets, or at a minimum sandblast the nose cone and do the tap dance back home. Old timers in their polished F-86s and sexually objectifying bar sing-alongs probably didn't have to worry about my effin' monday morning quaterbacking bosses, so I digress.
BTW, I thought about the thread this morning and took a second to validate that graph in-flight today while doing circles around San Antonio shooting approaches in the goo. About +12 degrees ram rise TAT at 300KCAS (which is about same as True at 3-6K). So at least I got that going for me. I need to take a look at the TAT in the MOA one of these days while hitting the cans to 6.5 bills true
Okay, anti or deicing capabilities was more my question then.. it sounds like from the group that "no" - outside of some engine inlets and windshields things like wing, etc., are not heated or treated in any special way.. you just go fast and don't spend time in icing areas
Didn’t realize you were at RND. I’m guessing you might have flown with my brother down there. 560th FTS. Retired a few years ago.Indeed, I can only speak for my wingless widowmaker. I don't know the specific airframe dynamics of more "blunt fighters".
The relationship between indicated temperature at the probes (TAT displays and OAT gonkulations by the ADC) is generally going to be an installation specific measurement of the RAM RISE, which is generally described in Kelvin (Celsius is 1-to-1, so C works just as well). That is the measurement of temperature increase by kinetic heating to a singularity point, or static pressure aka dynamic Psub-o=0. This is only true at a single point (line) in the wing leading edge camber, or similar interference junction(s) in the airframe. Anywhere else in the airframe and you're not heating it as much, by definition.
At any rate, I went ahead and charted the ram rise formula for a set of airspeed conditions.
View attachment 71392
Consider the icing band (rime-mixed-clear) goes from -20C to +2C. That means that accumulation in flight-critical areas (induction architecture, wings, flight controls) would have to rise a net 22C degrees worst case, in order to act as a bona fide natural anti-ice. This occurs around 400 KTAS, which is lower than my original 500-600 wag, but does not account for the fact that none of the aircraft surfaces that do not stop the flow to zero, are in fact being heated to such a degree. This is where the specific geometry of the fighter in question comes into play.
By the time you arrive at sonic and supersonic true airspeeds, then yes it is self-evident by the graph above that you are now in earnest using kinetic heating to defeat the icing band.
All that said, this is all to do about nothing. Fighters don't cruise in the icing altitudes for the vast majority of their profile. So they could hang by the min mach if they wanted to and it would still be too cold up there to get ice. I still contend I wouldn't go punching through a mass of SLD visible moisture at 350 true at 6-9K and expect to sublimate those gulps of supercooled water away. In the -38 at least, you'll shed ice from the lips and trash the turbojets, or at a minimum sandblast the nose cone and do the tap dance back home. Old timers in their polished F-86s and sexually objectifying bar sing-alongs probably didn't have to worry about my effin' monday morning quaterbacking bosses, so I digress.
BTW, I thought about the thread this morning and took a second to validate that graph in-flight today while doing circles around San Antonio shooting approaches in the goo. About +12 degrees ram rise TAT at 300KCAS (which is about same as True at 3-6K). So at least I got that going for me. I need to take a look at the TAT in the MOA one of these days while hitting the cans to 6.5 bills true