Heck, a motor glider is basically just an airplane with a very high glade ratio. Well worth looking at.
"Mild ADD"
- Thread starter mscard88
- Start date
Heck, a motor glider is basically just an airplane with a very high glade ratio. Well worth looking at.
bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
See, he's got an antidepressive too and that's not a "throw my meds away and I'm healed" kinda deal....
denverpilot
Tied Down
He’s not willing to spend “small” money to retain medical assistance from a professional, no way he’s going to spend the kind of money he’ll need to spend to appeal and stand before an Administrative Law Judge who is usually on the FAA’s side.
And that’s just the possible regulatory violation. It doesn’t address the medical denial at all. That’s not an appealable thing AFAIK.
sourdough44
En-Route
I think it all depends on what ‘health professionals’ we’ve visited over the years. Some have their ‘pet diagnosis’, parental steering influences also.
Oh the good ole days, when a young boy could have a bit of energy to burn off, without having to be put on meds.
mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
See, he's got an antidepressive too and that's not a "throw my meds away and I'm healed" kinda deal....
Not disagreeing Bruce, you certainly know more about these cases than I ever will. I understand what you're saying, he still has the condition and going off medications won't change anything. Regardless, one of my other SPs contacted you and you helped him, and I sure appreciate it. I now screen new students about medical conditions before they get too deep into training. You're a great service to aviation Doc, thanks for that.
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mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yup. Years ago my son (80s) was given a scrip for Ritalin and I told the Dr no way was my son going on that, and gave him the scrip back right there. It's too automatic as you implied sourdough.
PeterNSteinmetz
Ejection Handle Pulled
I think there must be some type of appeal, because remember John King ended up in front of the NTSB on his medical and that is the organization which handles the FAA regulatory cases ultimately.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Hmm interesting point.
SkyDog58
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I still wonder what happened between the time I was a kid and today that caused ADD, ADHD, etc, etc to go from pretty much nonexistent to near epidemic proportions.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Drug money.
There are kids do have legitimate issues that need medical help, but for the rest: Not enough unstructured, minimally or unsupervised play time outdoors. At school: massive reduction in recess and PE time. Any time my kids go more than a day or two without getting at least an hour of good physical activity per day, I notice a behavioral change. For my more active kid, his best-behaved weeks are when he does summer outdoor/sports camps and is on the move for 3-4 hours per day. Some kids just have a lot of natural energy, and it needs an outlet.
I think that was more an "effect" than a cause.
denverpilot
Tied Down
It’s a combination. If you observe the kids from both eras, they act pretty much the same.
azure
Final Approach
Yes there is an appeal process, but if you recall the details of King's case, it's pretty strong evidence that winning the appeal is nearly impossible. And King had at least two doctors on his side, but they still denied him once (or was it twice?) before grudgingly approving him for 2-pilot ops.
It's still not been spelled out why the OP's student is having certificate action taken against him - which is fine, no reason to disclose that, but it kind of makes the whole idea of trying again after going off the meds for 90 days seem rather insane IMO. The first thing to do is get out from under the regulatory action, then maybe go through the neuropsych testing to try to get the diagnoses overturned, if he's still determined to fly.
Or, as others have said, gliders - even motor gliders - are still an option.
bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
Not really. The denial letter (certified return receipt) will include a sentence that he is not qualified to operate ANY sort of aircraft, and so he will have reason to know (61.53).
Then if he operates it's between he and the courts.
Then if he operates it's between he and the courts.
bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
Title 9. The previous admin decided that every school dist. Would recieve $6k per kid per year for special needs. Thus, the districts find ADD “profitable”
azure
Final Approach
Interesting. It sounds like that would preclude Part 103 ops as well. Is this new wording or has it always been this way (denial letters)?
The overdiagnosis of ADD way predates Obama. And frankly, the statement is laughable, if you spent any time dealing with "exceptional students." Title IX funds are just a feather in the wind.
ChrisK
En-Route
Prior to 1975 in the US, 80% of kids with any sort of disability were not educated in public schools, often because they were unwelcome and were kicked out as uneducable. IDEA in 1975 made it the obligation of public school systems to provide a free, appropriate public education to all otherwise eligible children. It wasn’t until the 90s that the administrative code and then subsequently the implementation of 2004’s IDEIA that diagnosis really became a solid mechanism to force public educators to accommodate children with all sorts of disabilities and limitations.
I believe that today’s increase in diagnosis is directly influenced by schools kicking out deaf and blind kids prior to ‘75 and could have been prevented by school and society simply learning to accommodate same.
U
Unknown
Guest
If it’s not the drug but the diagnosis, does that mean I can take adderall or Ritalin as an appetite suppressant??
wsuffa
Touchdown! Greaser!
Trial-and-error diagnosis that saves time, coupled with drug companies pushing product and parents DEMANDING pills, have turned some docs into Pez dispensers. And if the pills cause a side effect? Many will then prescribe more pills rather than take the time to properly diagnose & try alternate medications that might not have the same toxicity. And some of that is driven by the insurance carriers and regulations. IMHO, the whole industry needs be reinvented. Not going to happen because the sheer amount of $$$ at play.
(And to be clear, no, not all docs are this way - most are very good and want to do the right thing, but some take the easy way and cram way too many patients in a day just to make a buck. When the standard fee for a visit is $100, but the doc only gets $48 ($30 copay from patient, $18 from insurance), then that difference is made up somehow. I am NOT arguing for government single payer because in my experience Medicare pays less).
John221us
En-Route
It means that the FAA considers the prescription was issued for one valid reason only and therefore implies an underlying diagnosis made by the issuing physician and no, that diagnosis isn't having too much appetite. I suppose you could go back to the issuing physician and somehow convince them to tell the FAA that they issued the prescription for a non-sanctioned use. I am sure they will cooperate.
If that doesn't work, the more standard approach is to undergo testing to show that the original diagnosis was incorrect.
Lachlan
En-Route
Dude, I knew you were old, but you've got a son who was in his 80s several years ago? Wow!!!
mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
Dude, I knew you were old, but you've got a son who was in his 80s several years ago? Wow!!!
Yup guess that makes me, oh like, let's go with 185. Yeah, 185.
Yep. Notice things are becoming "spectrum disorders" all of the sudden? "Spectrum disorder" = more diagnoses = more "patients" = more drugs = more money. I was on the common cold spectrum this winter.
Well, Autism is a spectrum disorder because the overall definition is broad. I've not heard any serious (medical research) attempt to make ADD/ADHD into a spectrum of disorders. Most of that drivel comes from people attempting to diagnose things as ADD that are not. Johnny getting bored in school is not ADD. Johnny acting up in school is not ADD. Johnny not listening to his parents is not ADD. ADD is a sensory disorder. It takes more than your pediatrician listening to mommy's complaint about Johnny for a proper diagnosis. It's egregious that practitioners throw Ritalin at the kids "just to see if it helps." That's not a proper diagnostic tool. This is right up there with the adult gps that throw SSRIs at patients "just to see if it helps" without a proper depression (or other psych) diagnosis.
denverpilot
Tied Down
FAA’s test battery for ADD/ADHD is a spectrum test I believe. Have to get a certain score for the SI. AFAIK it’s been a spectrum thing for a long time. Bruce would know for sure. Whether that’s backed by solid research, I wouldn’t have a clue. It’s just how the testing is done.