Medicals and student pilot certificates

RotorAndWing

RotorAndWing

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Rotor&Wing
Heard today that the combined medical and student pilot certificate is going away. From now on if you want a student pilot certificate either go to a DPE and pay for it or go to the FSDO and have it issued.
 
If this is true, it would make more sense to just let any CFI issue the student pilot cert. In the absence of logbook endorsements and (at least for now) a medical, it is just a piece of paper that grants no privileges. Other than verifying ID, there is nothing to it.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
If this is true, it would make more sense to just let any CFI issue the student pilot cert. In the absence of logbook endorsements and (at least for now) a medical, it is just a piece of paper that grants no privileges. Other than verifying ID, there is nothing to it.
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It's true, and no, the FAA isn't going to let CFI's issue a certificate.
 
We've had FAA inspectors issue student pilot certificates before.
When the medicals by and large go away, we'll need a way for the student pilot certificates to be issued. Mail might not be a bad idea for those who aren't within striking distance of a FSDO.
 
flyingron said:
We've had FAA inspectors issue student pilot certificates before.
When the medicals by and large go away, we'll need a way for the student pilot certificates to be issued. Mail might not be a bad idea for those who aren't within striking distance of a FSDO.
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Can't do it by mail, you can always go to a DPE.
 
Hmm. That'll be a major problem for some folks...We have a FSDO here, so not a big deal, but they'll probably not like the increased work.

This would indicate that the medical is expected to go away and they're preparing for that.
 
jesse said:
Hmm. That'll be a major problem for some folks...We have a FSDO here, so not a big deal, but they'll probably not like the increased work.

This would indicate that the medical is expected to go away and they're preparing for that.
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Appears to be.
 
Why not the post office or the library? Heck, they do passports.

All it takes is an approved "ID Checker".
 
Previous FSDO issued student certificates always had the statement "for ballon or glider only". I noticed my most recent student did not have any restrictions on his student pilot certificate. Is this part of the change?
 
flyingron said:
We've had FAA inspectors issue student pilot certificates before.
When the medicals by and large go away, we'll need a way for the student pilot certificates to be issued. Mail might not be a bad idea for those who aren't within striking distance of a FSDO.
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They're going to want you to present yourself in person to verify identity, same as the AME does.
 
BillTIZ said:
Previous FSDO issued student certificates always had the statement "for ballon or glider only". I noticed my most recent student did not have any restrictions on his student pilot certificate. Is this part of the change?
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Not sure.

Originally student pilot certificates were only good for 24 months (same as third class Medicals) Now Third class is good for more calendar time, so the student pilot certificates are out of sync.

That and I believe they are moving towards the pending Third Class revision.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Why not the post office or the library? Heck, they do passports.

All it takes is an approved "ID Checker".
Click to expand...

The Post Office is a damned good idea, however, it sets up a future problem. Biometric licenses are coming, I already have one for my maritime license. They will create an office within the FSDO for this service and that creates the infrastructure that can easily be expanded to handle the biometric data gathering as well. This saves the development of an infrastructure within the post office for this service that will like require developing another one to handle the biometrics.

I think that is why the FAA has held off on the photo cards. They are waiting for the USCG/TSA to get all the problems worked out of their system (there are still many) before they create theirs.
 
Henning said:
The Post Office is a damned good idea, however, it sets up a future problem. Biometric licenses are coming, I already have one for my maritime license. They will create an office within the FSDO for this service and that creates the infrastructure that can easily be expanded to handle the biometric data gathering as well. This saves the development of an infrastructure within the post office for this service that will like require developing another one to handle the biometrics.
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I thought the newer passports are biometric, no?
 
Wonder what the reason for changing this is? I thought getting your medical and SP certificate issued at the same time was a pretty easy way to do it.
 
Ryanb said:
Wonder what the reason for changing this is? I thought getting your medical and SP certificate issued at the same time was a pretty easy way to do it.
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Student Pilot certificates are good for 24 months. Depending on age, the Third Class is good for longer, hence they don't sync up anymore.

That and the impending changes to the Third Class coming up necessitates the changes.
 
Ryanb said:
Wonder what the reason for changing this is? I thought getting your medical and SP certificate issued at the same time was a pretty easy way to do it.
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Future students won't have to see the AME, you won't need one until you have a commercial for sure, maybe an IR as well, I'm not sure as I'm not up on the current proposal.
 
RotorAndWing said:
the impending changes to the Third Class coming up necessitates the changes.
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Makes sense. If you dont mind me asking, I'm a little behind here as I haven't heard about any changes regarding the 3rd class medical. What are they changing?
 
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Ryanb said:
Makes sense. If you dont mind me asking, I'm a little behind here as I haven't heard about any changes regarding the 3rd class medical. What are they changing?
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It looks like it is disappearing.
 
Henning said:
Future students won't have to see the AME, you won't need one until you have a commercial for sure, maybe an IR as well, I'm not sure as I'm not up on the current proposal.
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I was wondering about the IR. I thought I read to fly IFR you will need the 3rd. Ill try and find that.


EDIT: Just found this

"Dubbed "The Pilot's Bill of Rights 2," new measures introduced last night in the House and Senate would allow private pilots to no longer hold a third class medical certificate for noncommercial VFR and IFR flights in aircraft weighing up to 6,000 pounds with up to six seats.
Read more at http://www.flyingmag.com/news/medical-reform-bills-introduced-house-and-senate#Vkl2QEBXoVcWKldS.99"
 
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I told Cornyn and Cruz to sponsor it or I'm not voting for them ******mit! :mad::lol:
 
RotorAndWing said:
Not sure.

Originally student pilot certificates were only good for 24 months (same as third class Medicals) Now Third class is good for more calendar time, so the student pilot certificates are out of sync.

That and I believe they are moving towards the pending Third Class revision.
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THey are not out of sync. They fixed 61.19 to have the same expiry language as formedicals. There was a window of time where that wasn't true but they fixed it in 2009.
 
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Henning said:
They're going to want you to present yourself in person to verify identity, same as the AME does.
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Hmm...I saw an inspector issue a student pilot without having the applicant there, but he may have broken the rules apparently.

I'm confused as to the identity requirement though. The student pilot certificate is a bigger sham than the regular pilot certificates and the FAA routinely mails those out with no validation.

I can understand the AME needing identification to prove that the guy he's examining is the applicant...
 
flyingron said:
Hmm...I saw an inspector issue a student pilot without having the applicant there, but he may have broken the rules apparently.

I'm confused as to the identity requirement though. The student pilot certificate is a bigger sham than the regular pilot certificates and the FAA routinely mails those out with no validation.

I can understand the AME needing identification to prove that the guy he's examining is the applicant...
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8900.1, Vol 5, Ch2, Sec 6

To issue a Student Pilot Certificate the Inspector must see identification and insure the applicant can read,write and speak English. I'd say that would be hard to do if the applicant is not present. :rolleyes:
 
flyingron said:
THey are not out of sync. They fixed 61.19 to have the same expiry language as formedicals. There was a window of time where that wasn't true but they fixed it in 2009.
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According to guidance (8900.1) the Student Pilot certificate is only good for 24 months and must be issued with an expiration date, hence a reason they are now separating them from the medical.
 
Sport Pilot Student Certificate is totally different then PP.

Its good for 5 years and distance that can be flown under it is different.
 
RotorAndWing said:
According to guidance (8900.1) the Student Pilot certificate is only good for 24 months and must be issued with an expiration date, hence a reason they are now separating them from the medical.
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§61.19 Duration of pilot and instructor certificates.
b) Student pilot certificate.

(1) For student pilots who have not reached their 40th birthday, the student pilot certificate does not expire until 60 calendar months after the month of the date of examination shown on the medical certificate.

(2) For student pilots who have reached their 40th birthday, the student pilot certificate does not expire until 24 calendar months after the month of the date of examination shown on the medical certificate.

(3) For student pilots seeking a glider rating, balloon rating, or a sport pilot certificate, the student pilot certificate does not expire until 60 calendar months after the month of the date issued, regardless of the person's age.
 
Wheels said:
§61.19 Duration of pilot and instructor certificates.
b) Student pilot certificate.

(1) For student pilots who have not reached their 40th birthday, the student pilot certificate does not expire until 60 calendar months after the month of the date of examination shown on the medical certificate.

(2) For student pilots who have reached their 40th birthday, the student pilot certificate does not expire until 24 calendar months after the month of the date of examination shown on the medical certificate.

(3) For student pilots seeking a glider rating, balloon rating, or a sport pilot certificate, the student pilot certificate does not expire until 60 calendar months after the month of the date issued, regardless of the person's age.
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Yes. They are changing this to go back to the 24 month duration Student Pilot certificate (as it was before the Regulation change).

IOW, the SPC will have not be a part of the medical. (Is this really that difficult to understand?) :dunno:
 
Here is a copy of the Student Sport Pilot Certificate I received. This is a copy I made the day it was given to me at OshKosh.

The man who gave me this stated. Its good for 5 years and a few other instructions. He told me let know one tell you different.

His name is on this forum. I keep the original updated forum in my log book this is just a copy of the original as I received it.
 

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RotorAndWing said:
8900.1, Vol 5, Ch2, Sec 6

To issue a Student Pilot Certificate the Inspector must see identification and insure the applicant can read,write and speak English. I'd say that would be hard to do if the applicant is not present. :rolleyes:
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I forgot about the silly English Proficiency requirement.

]
 
RotorAndWing said:
Yes. They are changing this to go back to the 24 month duration Student Pilot certificate (as it was before the Regulation change).

IOW, the SPC will have not be a part of the medical. (Is this really that difficult to understand?) :dunno:
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It's not difficult to understand. The part is that the expiration date is stipulated by the REGULATION which trumps your order. Until they change the regulation, the order is in ERROR.

The SPC is not necessarily part of the medical now, though people rarely get them that way. Still they're expiry should follow 61.19.
 
flyingron said:
It's not difficult to understand. The part is that the expiration date is stipulated by the REGULATION which trumps your order. Until they change the regulation, the order is in ERROR.

The SPC is not necessarily part of the medical now, though people rarely get them that way. Still they're expiry should follow 61.19.
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Whatever Ron, apparently you can't understand the part of "this is going to change". :rolleyes2:
 
1600vw said:
Here is a copy of the Student Sport Pilot Certificate I received. This is a copy I made the day it was given to me at OshKosh.

The man who gave me this stated. Its good for 5 years and a few other instructions. He told me let know one tell you different.

His name is on this forum. I keep the original updated forum in my log book this is just a copy of the original as I received it.
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The ones being issued now are for 24 months only.
 
I understand 'this is going to change.'

What part of THE WAY IT IS NOW and has been for the past 5 years do you not understand.
Your statement that started this discussion was flat out INCORRECT but i guess it's an occupational hazard of your job to not being able to admit you are wrong.
 
simtech said:
I was wondering about the IR. I thought I read to fly IFR you will need the 3rd. Ill try and find that.


EDIT: Just found this

"Dubbed "The Pilot's Bill of Rights 2," new measures introduced last night in the House and Senate would allow private pilots to no longer hold a third class medical certificate for noncommercial VFR and IFR flights in aircraft weighing up to 6,000 pounds with up to six seats.
Read more at http://www.flyingmag.com/news/medical-reform-bills-introduced-house-and-senate#Vkl2QEBXoVcWKldS.99"
Click to expand...

So I guess the 3rd class isn't going away, you just won't need it for up to 6000 & 6.
 
flyingron said:
Hmm...I saw an inspector issue a student pilot without having the applicant there, but he may have broken the rules apparently.

I'm confused as to the identity requirement though. The student pilot certificate is a bigger sham than the regular pilot certificates and the FAA routinely mails those out with no validation.

I can understand the AME needing identification to prove that the guy he's examining is the applicant...
Click to expand...

Issue or replace? Inspectors do occasionally do things for everyone's ease and expediency in a trustworthy situation.
 
flyingron said:
I understand 'this is going to change.'

What part of THE WAY IT IS NOW and has been for the past 5 years do you not understand.
Your statement that started this discussion was flat out INCORRECT but i guess it's an occupational hazard of your job to not being able to admit you are wrong.
Click to expand...

No, I made the mistake of posting something I thought might be of value to the readers here in the next couple of months.

I'll put this now on "thread ignore" and move on. Later.
 
flyingron said:
It's not difficult to understand. The part is that the expiration date is stipulated by the REGULATION which trumps your order. Until they change the regulation, the order is in ERROR.

The SPC is not necessarily part of the medical now, though people rarely get them that way. Still they're expiry should follow 61.19.
Click to expand...

It looks like they are going to change that back with the new regs standardizing the SPC to 24 months regardless of age. Once you separate SP from the underlying Medical, you no longer have valid cause to have age discriminatory limitations on the SPC, so it has to go back to a single figure.
 
If the student pilot certificate is going to be separated from the medical certificate, then it brings up the question - what exactly is the purpose of the student pilot certificate anyway? It does not seem to fill much of a function. Also, the requirements to get one aren't very stringent. Are there any actual requirements other than to verify ID?

- Verification of ID I have to do as a CFI anyway due to TSA requirements. Seems to accomplish the same purpose. Duplication of effort. So there'd really be no reason CFI's couldn't issue student pilot certificates.

But why issue them at all anyway?

- It doesn't do much other than have a place to put solo and solo XC endorsements on the back. Okay, but as a CFI I have to also make those endorsements in the logbook. Again, duplication.

It seems the only thing a student pilot certificate really accomplishes is it gives the FAA something to "pull" if you have a violation. That, of course, isn't going to stop someone who wants to willingly violate rules, and for those where it was accidental there are other ways (like removing endorsements from logbooks).
 
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