Medical history for class II medical

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Hello. To keep things short, I decided it was time for a career change and I have been looking into becoming a commercial helicopter pilot (which, if I understand correctly, requires a class II medical). My goal is to obtain the medical before I start on my PPL to make sure that I can obtain the medical certificate without wasting my time and money.

What worries me about the medical is the history section. From 8th grade to about jr year of high school I was diagnosed with depression/bipolar-depression, was medicated, and had two voluntary hospitalizations (for cutting-minor). I have been over my depression and medication free since that time, more than 10 years ago, with no other issues/recurrences.

I am now in my late twenties, graduated from a rigorous degree program, work at a prestigious institution, and have a growing family.

My main concerns then, are if it is even worth considering a career in aviation with that back ground? Is there anyway I can pass the certification or get an exemption? What documents would I need to provide the AME and what would need to be included in those documents/letters to increase my chance of passing?

Any thoughts or input would be greatly appreciated.
 
To do this the right way, I think you would have to "disabuse" the bipolar diagnosis. I'm not sure what would be involved in doing that, might not be too hard if it's over 10 years ago and you've been medication-free and high-level functioning the whole time. But you need to consult a good problem case AME (do NOT do the MedExpress thing until you've had the consultation and been advised by the AME to do so). Dr. Bruce Chien in Peoria, IL is probably the best known, I can also recommend one or two in Michigan if you're in that part of the country.

If it's been over 10 years it's not clear whether your diagnosis is even "out there" in the online databases. If it's not, then there are some who would advise you to just omit the diagnosis. I wouldn't do that, but you should be aware of all your options (and be ready to take the consequences if you get caught).
 
Unregistered said:
Hello. To keep things short, I decided it was time for a career change and I have been looking into becoming a commercial helicopter pilot (which, if I understand correctly, requires a class II medical). My goal is to obtain the medical before I start on my PPL to make sure that I can obtain the medical certificate without wasting my time and money.
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A wise idea.
What worries me about the medical is the history section. From 8th grade to about jr year of high school I was diagnosed with depression/bipolar-depression, was medicated, and had two voluntary hospitalizations (for cutting-minor). I have been over my depression and medication free since that time, more than 10 years ago, with no other issues/recurrences.
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This is certainly going to be a problem. Your history is DISQUALIFYING. It may be that the sustained high-functioning, medication-free may allow an issuance it will be challenging. I'd have a consultation with a good HIMS-certified AME (such as Dr. Bruce Chien http://www.aeromedicaldoc.com/) about your chances.

I can almost guarantee you're going to need extensive (and expensive) current psychological test and a recent report from a board-certified psychiatrist at the minimum that shows you do not manifest the disorders you were alleged to have had. The prognosis is however bleak. Bipolar depression doesn't just "get better" and the FAA knows that.
 
Contact an AME and get a consult - should be something like $100 and you'll get all your questions answered.. Some guy on the internet might know but others might not. Listen to the doctor, take notes.

You might have to undergo a few tests and prepare a packet for the FAA. The best thing you can do is to understand the issues, let the AME back channel the questions to the FAA, hear the plan they want and THEN do your medical with all the passing test results in hand.

Dr Bruce Chien in Peoria is an excellent AME and widely suggested here, but not the only choice.

This is not automatically disqualifying but will require much testing and FAA decision. The AME will have to defer your medical and let the FAA decide. You definitely want to have all your testing done and all your ducks in a row prior to submitting.
 
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Your situation is one that requires well qualified guidance to properly explain to the FAA medical folks about your past diagnoses and properly document your current status. That you wish to be properly prepared is a double-plus-good first step as "bombing" into the AME's without any of this is asking for loads of trouble.

One of the best qualified to guide you is Dr. Bruce Chien of Peoria. He can be found as a moderator of Medical Matters section the AOPA Web Forum (may require membership to post your question or send him a private message) or via his website, www.aeromedicaldoc.com. Dr. Chien is one of the 4 doctors who wrote the current protocol that permits issuance for folks who have taken or are taking the permitted SSRI drugs. So he knows his stuff on what the FAA wants to know about your history, and what the submitted documentation needs to say.

Dr. Chien is also well known as a good advocate for his airmen. If he takes you on (and keeps you*) as a client, he will do all that's needed to be 100% straight with you about the process, your chances of obtaining/keeping the medical, and representing your case to the right folks at Oklahoma City (where FAA medical resides). His fee isn't cheep, but for the quality of service you are provided, it's a pittance versus trying to go it alone or with incompetent counsel.

*Keeps you. Let me explain that... One of Dr. Chien's biggest pet peeves with folks who seek him out are the ones that are not truthful, both to themselves and especially to him. If you lie by omission, you're millimeters away from him dumping you. If you lie with intent, you're history faster than it took to read this sentence. However, if your are 100% forthcoming, accept his guidance and advice with humility and a "yessir, I'll get it done" attitude, you will finding him the best person to have in your corner.

And don't let me paint a picture of him being something with a full 10-gallon hat personality. He is a very charming and entertaining person to be around. But he only has so much of the precious resource known as time. So he only shares it with folks who are truly there to work with him and not against him.


Best of luck to you, and report back as your progress.
 
In the time it took me to write up my response, 3 others recommended Dr. Chien....

OP, if that doesn't inform you of who to reach out too :) :) :)
 
flyingron said:
I can almost guarantee you're going to need extensive (and expensive) current psychological test and a recent report from a board-certified psychiatrist at the minimum that shows you do not manifest the disorders you were alleged to have had. The prognosis is however bleak. Bipolar depression doesn't just "get better" and the FAA knows that.
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The prognosis is only bleak if the OP really has bipolar. He definitely needs a current evaluation and he needs to somehow disabuse the diagnosis; whether he needs a full battery from a HIMS-qualified psychiatrist isn't clear, given how long ago the diagnosis was.

What he needs is a HIMS AME to guide him through the process. Bruce is probably the best choice, but not the only one.
 
azure said:
The prognosis is only bleak if the OP really has bipolar. He definitely needs a current evaluation and he needs to somehow disabuse the diagnosis; whether he needs a full battery from a HIMS-qualified psychiatrist isn't clear, given how long ago the diagnosis was.

What he needs is a HIMS AME to guide him through the process. Bruce is probably the best choice, but not the only one.
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I can almost guarantee that he needs the standard PPP battery (MMPI, projective testing, something specific about the depression/bipolar diagnosis) to even be considered. That doesn't have to be with a HIMS AME, a psycologist can do it. The only thing that's up in the air is whether he can go to any board certified psychiatrist or a HIMS AME to work up the final evaluation. In the past only the former was required, but these days the FAA is pretty much steering everybody through HIMS.
 
If this all happened prior to age 18, would there even be records remaining?
 
dans2992 said:
If this all happened prior to age 18, would there even be records remaining?
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My unwashed and didn't stay at the Holiday Inn Express opinion is a strong maybe. My read between lines is the OP is in the 25-30 y.o. range, and that's well within the period when all medical records went straight to a searchable database without passing --GO->


While the road through all of the testing and documenting for the FAA's needs/standards will be long and expensive, it would be (again, my opinion) better to get that done than to omit, get issued, train, get qualified, get hired, bend metal, then have your own round of Germanwings.
 
flyingron said:
I can almost guarantee that he needs the standard PPP battery (MMPI, projective testing, something specific about the depression/bipolar diagnosis) to even be considered. That doesn't have to be with a HIMS AME, a psycologist can do it. The only thing that's up in the air is whether he can go to any board certified psychiatrist or a HIMS AME to work up the final evaluation. In the past only the former was required, but these days the FAA is pretty much steering everybody through HIMS.
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I can guarantee you that he needs an extensive battery of tests to be considered since the diagnosis of bipolar requires that the medical must be deferred. Exactly which ones and what they mean is up in the air until the AME talks with the FAA.

The trick is to get agreement on what conditions they want you to be in, what tests they want you to do and what test results they want to see BEFORE you ever submit a medical application. That's the consult and you might be at this testing for several months.

Keep in mind that after several months of poking, prodding and testing, you just might get the result that you can't fly. It's a possible outcome.
 
If they do decide to issue the Class II, is it likely that an airline/commercial operator would turn him down for employment based on his history anyway (which would be obvious due to the SI)?
 
bflynn said:
I can guarantee you that he needs an extensive battery of tests to be considered since the diagnosis of bipolar requires that the medical must be deferred. Exactly which ones and what they mean is up in the air until the AME talks with the FAA.
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If that's true then the OP's only hope to try this without jeopardy is that he's going for a 2nd class. The FAA will no longer talk to the AME without a live application in the system if it's for a class 3. Policy change reported by Doc Bruce last June I think it was.
 
dans2992 said:
If they do decide to issue the Class II, is it likely that an airline/commercial operator would turn him down for employment based on his history anyway (which would be obvious due to the SI)?
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It wouldn't be an SI. Bipolar is DQ'ing, period. The FAA is not going to issue an SI for bipolar. He'll have to get the diagnosis disabused, and then he would have a regular Second Class, most likely after a deferral and review by OKC.

The question is how to convince the FAA that the diagnosis was incorrect, which is where contacting someone of Bruce's caliber before applying for the medical comes in.

If we're making book, I'll say about five grand in psych tests and three months to issue.

Rich
 
OP, you have a tough row to hoe anyway you look at it. Bipolar is, like everyone is saying, disqualifying, you will never get a medical with that Dx. So you have two choices, one, you can jump through enormous hoops and spend countless dollars to get the Dx disabused, or two, you can just lie and forget to put it on your application. It will probably sail right through and you would have your medical. Please don't do that. If you want to fly, do it right. You owe it to yourself and everyone who ever occupies a seat in an aircraft you are piloting to know that you have integrity. Lastly, if you truly do have bipolar disorder, you have no business flying. Bottom line, get in touch with Bruce or someone like him. Good luck OP, I know you will make a good decision.
 
dans2992 said:
If this all happened prior to age 18, would there even be records remaining?
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Medical records aren't expunged like juvenile criminal records. The applicant is not advised to LIE on his application (nor will most good AMEs like Dr. Bruce deal with you if you are inclined to do so).
 
RJM62 said:
If we're making book, I'll say about five grand in psych tests and three months to issue.

Rich
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If we were closer, I'd take the over (more on time requirement) and wager a good meal at your place.
 
I can tell you that 14 years ago the basic PPP testing ran about $1100 for the tests themselves plus enough appointments with the psych for him to think he knows enough to write the report (if he'a already treating you that may be minimal, other than that you may be talking several thousand more). Note none of this is going to be recouped from your insurer most likely. I've heard more recent discussions putting the base testing at more than double that.
 
dans2992 said:
If this all happened prior to age 18, would there even be records remaining?
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Yup. They keep it all digital. For us older guys our records died with our late doctors.

Thats why im cautious with my own children with their doctors in case they ever want to fly one day!!
 
EminiTrader said:
Yup. They keep it all digital. For us older guys our records died with our late doctors.



Thats why im cautious with my own children with their doctors in case they ever want to fly one day!!
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So why even have the questionnaire on the medical? Why doesn't the FAA just pull your records and have a look?
 
s it likely that an airline/commercial operator would turn him down for employment based on his history anyway (which would be obvious due to the SI
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I have a post-OSA SI ( :happydance: ) which isn't mentioned on my medical certificate . Are there SI's that appear on medical certificates?

With respect to a future aviation employer, I'm sure they can require that a professional pilot have a Class 1 or 2 medical certificate.

Beyond the fact that you have a current medical I'm skeptical that an employer can require further medical details, certainly not before making an offer anyway.
 
I thought SIs were noted on the medical...?

I know insurance questionnaires ask about SI's.
 
SIs are noted on the medical by the phrase "not valid for any class after ___" but it doesn't say what your SI is for.
 
dans2992 said:
I thought SIs were noted on the medical...?
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Negative. Often there is a "Not valid for any class after xxx" restriction which is a sure sign that some special issuance is in play, but the information about the SI is in a separate letter the airman is issued (for domestic purposes you leave this locked up in your files).
I know insurance questionnaires ask about SI's.
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I've never been asked about such on insurance, only about the date of my last medical.
 
Thank you for all your replies! You have all been very helpful. Peoria is only a short drive from my hometown so I will be looking into setting up an appointment with Dr. Bruce in the near future.

To expand on my original post a little bit, my original diagnosis was depression, it was later changed to bi-polar by a different doctor, then changed back to depression by a third doctor who finished out my care. Since at one point in time there was a bi-polar diagnosis I know that must be reported. However, since it was eventually changed back to depression, would that qualify as disabusing the bi-polar diagnosis?

Also, to be honest, I'm not really sure what all is contained in my medical records from that time period. Would it be a bad idea to set up an appointment with my former doctor to discuss my history?

Thanks,

op
 
First I'd see what is actually on your record.
Also maybe it was just done under your folks insurance and there is nothing on file under your name & numbers?

If it's on your records I'd talk to someone like Dr. Bruce.
 
Unregistered said:
However, since it was eventually changed back to depression, would that qualify as disabusing the bi-polar diagnosis?

Also, to be honest, I'm not really sure what all is contained in my medical records from that time period. Would it be a bad idea to set up an appointment with my former doctor to discuss my history?
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The issue is that you have to prove to the FAAs satisfaction that it was bogus - non of us can really say what exactly that would involve.

Getting all of your records would be a good idea.
 
Unregistered said:
Thank you for all your replies! You have all been very helpful. Peoria is only a short drive from my hometown so I will be looking into setting up an appointment with Dr. Bruce in the near future.

To expand on my original post a little bit, my original diagnosis was depression, it was later changed to bi-polar by a different doctor, then changed back to depression by a third doctor who finished out my care. Since at one point in time there was a bi-polar diagnosis I know that must be reported. However, since it was eventually changed back to depression, would that qualify as disabusing the bi-polar diagnosis?

Also, to be honest, I'm not really sure what all is contained in my medical records from that time period. Would it be a bad idea to set up an appointment with my former doctor to discuss my history?

Thanks,

op
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You're going to need all those records, anyway, and you have a right to them. But I suggest that you talk to Bruce first before you talk to any of the former docs. If you and he decide to work together, then decide how to handle the records request.

In my experience, doctors strongly prefer sending records to other doctors, not handing them over to patients. I don't know why or if that's typical, but it's been my experience.

Rich
 
What do doctors do with their records when they retire (or die)?
 
RJM62 said:
In my experience, doctors strongly prefer sending records to other doctors, not handing them over to patients. I don't know why or if that's typical, but it's been my experience.
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It maybe typical, but it's of course 100% illegal for them to withhold these. Even the extra protections given to psychotherapy notes don't mean that a sane patient can't see his own records.

Still it helps to know what to ask for and especially if you are asking the providers to render a letter of opinion, that it be crafted in a way that helps rather than harms the individual.
 
Be very careful about commercial helicopter pilot schools. Not to long ago a larger one went belly up and left students on the hook for large loans.

Also it will most likely be quite some time until you can support your family in the style they have become accustomed to flying helicopters. I'm not saying a determined guy can't do it, just go into it with your eyes open.
 
Unregistered said:
To expand on my original post a little bit, my original diagnosis was depression, it was later changed to bi-polar by a different doctor, then changed back to depression by a third doctor who finished out my care. Since at one point in time there was a bi-polar diagnosis I know that must be reported. However, since it was eventually changed back to depression, would that qualify as disabusing the bi-polar diagnosis?
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For what it's worth, I had a kind of similar situation (though not bi-polar). The FAA requested the full battery. Bruce (having read my full military and VA files) knew it was bull and after a couple of visit to my MH doc and a copy of the notes, my 2nd class SI showed up in the mail. (Somewhat oversimplifying but that's the gist of it)

Bruce was absolutely great to work with and as everyone else here says, he will do everything possible to get/keep you flying if you're able to do so legally. He charges less than an hour in an R-22 to get things started and once you get him the files and paperwork he requests, he has a clear path of how to get an issuance if it's possible. (I did not have to pay anything additional to his beginning rate, but depending on your situation, he may charge more if he really has to go above and beyond)

Just please, be completely up front, find the doctors files on you because he will ask for it. Once he has all of the paperwork, he will tell you what he/your AME/CAMI will need or if it would be a fools game to apply.

Good luck!
 
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