Meanwhile, back at the gun show

Ruger P90 and 1911 Compact for backup. It was a 4 day defensive handgun course. They did have a couple of full-auto shoot events, but my calculator and credit card don't run fast enough to handle the dollars per minute it takes to feed those, so I passed. 800 rounds of .45ACP in 4 days was enough for me.

Can you comment on the quality of instruction and any improvement you noted in your skills? My brother and I have been meaning to get out there sometime. Thanks.
 
So, you don't pay taxes? Otherwise, you were charged for that land



Are you just going to keep changing your opinion?

First it was a tag fee, now taxes.

And, I don't pay taxes to hunt on My Public Lands, I pay taxes so they are managed and available for me AND for you, anytime you want to use them. And, you are welcome.


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You can go spend time on My Public Lands and not be charged a dime. Not have to ask anyone for permission. You just have to have a pair of boots and the desire to get outside.

If you think every activity has to be culminated in an anti-government rant, you likely are missing some of the best days of your life.


I never said you couldn't. And I know you're just changing the topic to avoid admitting you were wrong. You're just trolling.

You said you wouldn't pay a private land owner to hunt. I pointed out you're paying to hunt no matter where you go. Public or private.

There's no moral high ground to justify your uppity attitude about not paying a private land owner to hunt. The other land owner you like to pay instead is $20T in debt and will happily send people with guns to collect if you don't pay.

You understand the point. It's not a reading comprehension thing. You just aren't willing to call it what it really is: Hunting on rented land.

No significant difference between the activity you said you'd never do and the one you actually do other than better Marketing by one land owner than the other. Judging anyone for hunting on private land they rent when you're doing the same, shows the disconnect capable by humans who lie to themselves about stuff. No big deal if you're into that sort of thing.

You continue the self-lies with the concept that a lever gun can't accomplish the same results at the end of the day as others. That's ok too.

Just don't expect anyone to believe any of it. That's probably the only sad part about the thread. You actually think someone might. Doesn't take too much effort to poke holes in the storyline you've presented.

Don't want to rent private land? Cool. Don't want to use a lever gun? No problem.

Want others to believe the rationalizations as to why, instead of just saying it's a personal preference? Nope. Not buying.

You like hunting with non-lever guns on government rental land. Good for you. That's pretty much where the story ends.

It's adorable you think the Public Lands are "yours" though. Really it is. Bundy thought so, too, right? LOL.

Enjoy hunting. Be safe.
 
I never said you couldn't. And I know you're just changing the topic to avoid admitting you were wrong. You're just trolling.

You said you wouldn't pay a private land owner to hunt. I pointed out you're paying to hunt no matter where you go. Public or private.

There's no moral high ground to justify your uppity attitude about not paying a private land owner to hunt. The other land owner you like to pay instead is $20T in debt and will happily send people with guns to collect if you don't pay.

You understand the point. It's not a reading comprehension thing. You just aren't willing to call it what it really is: Hunting on rented land.

No significant difference between the activity you said you'd never do and the one you actually do other than better Marketing by one land owner than the other. Judging anyone for hunting on private land they rent when you're doing the same, shows the disconnect capable by humans who lie to themselves about stuff. No big deal if you're into that sort of thing.

You continue the self-lies with the concept that a lever gun can't accomplish the same results at the end of the day as others. That's ok too.

Just don't expect anyone to believe any of it. That's probably the only sad part about the thread. You actually think someone might. Doesn't take too much effort to poke holes in the storyline you've presented.

Don't want to rent private land? Cool. Don't want to use a lever gun? No problem.

Want others to believe the rationalizations as to why, instead of just saying it's a personal preference? Nope. Not buying.

You like hunting with non-lever guns on government rental land. Good for you. That's pretty much where the story ends.

It's adorable you think the Public Lands are "yours" though. Really it is. Bundy thought so, too, right? LOL.

Enjoy hunting. Be safe.



Yep, I said I wouldn't pay a Texan to go hang out with "beer-swilling" guys with guns sitting on top of a corn flinger, and waiting to shoot baited deer.

Won't do it, and, won't call that hunting, and most of what else occurs in Texas.

And, I pay the land management agencies Zero dollars every time I hunt. I don't rent the land from them, I don't acquire any sort of license to use the land, nor any expectations of exclusivity.

How you somehow use a bizarre twisted logic to create a false equivalency between hunting on My Public Lands and what goes on in Texas is quite the painful contortion. Please don't hurt yourself attempting it.

I will readily admit to paying quite a bit of taxes, and gladly doing so, to the BLM and the Forest Service to manage My Public Lands for my benefit, your benefit, and, more importantly, my kid's and future generations' benefit.

And, likewise, I gladly pay the State wildlife agencies in multiple states to manage the State's game for my benefit, and your's, if you choose to go out and hunt and fish.

And, I also provide plenty of input to the Land Management agencies to manage My Public Lands for my benefit, including calls, letters, public comment, and, when needed, gladly funding lawsuits for the benefit of myself and future generations.

I get it, everything with you has to be twisted into an anti-government rant.
 
Can you comment on the quality of instruction and any improvement you noted in your skills? My brother and I have been meaning to get out there sometime. Thanks.

Quality of instruction was top-notch. Every one of the instructors can and do walk the talk. I was a bit leery of boot camp instruction style but there was absolutely none of that. My lead instructor was a retired A6 driver, so we talked NavAir stuff during a few of the breaks. His wife was also an instructor on the team.

Some difference on opinion on one eye vs both eyes open, weaver vs isosceles stances ... I stuck with both eyes open and stayed open-minded on the weaver stance - figured I had nothing to lose to try it their way (but I still am not going to close one eye).

Since my background was bullseye shooting, the defensive handgun was new enough that I went in with the "clean slate, teach me" mindset.

My speed probably increased 4 fold in presentation from holster and shots on target, my grouping probably decreased by half. Definitely learned new techniques for clearing concealment garments. One of the instructors had some subtle changes on my grip that seemed a little awkward at first, but by the end of the class, it was fast, firm, steady and natural.

I dropped the ball on malfunction drills, as, like I mentioned, I was a bullseye shooter. So, all new stuff to me in that area. On the graduation test, I dropped 1 shot from a perfect shooting score, but missed distinguished graduate by 13 points due to time deductions on the malfunction drills.
 

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Yep, I said I wouldn't pay a Texan to go hang out with "beer-swilling" guys with guns sitting on top of a corn flinger, and waiting to shoot baited deer.

Won't do it, and, won't call that hunting, and most of what else occurs in Texas.

And, I pay the land management agencies Zero dollars every time I hunt. I don't rent the land from them, I don't acquire any sort of license to use the land, nor any expectations of exclusivity.

How you somehow use a bizarre twisted logic to create a false equivalency between hunting on My Public Lands and what goes on in Texas is quite the painful contortion. Please don't hurt yourself attempting it.

I will readily admit to paying quite a bit of taxes, and gladly doing so, to the BLM and the Forest Service to manage My Public Lands for my benefit, your benefit, and, more importantly, my kid's and future generations' benefit.

And, likewise, I gladly pay the State wildlife agencies in multiple states to manage the State's game for my benefit, and your's, if you choose to go out and hunt and fish.

And, I also provide plenty of input to the Land Management agencies to manage My Public Lands for my benefit, including calls, letters, public comment, and, when needed, gladly funding lawsuits for the benefit of myself and future generations.

I get it, everything with you has to be twisted into an anti-government rant.


Was there a single thing in my posts that was ANTI government? Nope.

Try turning off that filter in your head. It makes communication a lot easier.

The real bill is printed on your paystub every month and that only covers the interest on the loans.

Enjoy it. Have I claimed you should stop doing anything you're doing. Nope.

Still cute that you think land management agencies give a rats ass about your opinion on how they should run things. Delightfully cute even. Did they put your name on any policy documents with bold print and send you a gift basket for your brilliance?

I bet if you could find a way to increase their take on licenses they'd throw ya a nice awards ceremony. Until then, I'm guessing you might have a higher opinion of your feedback than they do.

But then again, you're keeping a paper pusher in a job. I'm sure the feedback is tidily filed in a lovely filing cabinet somewhere by someone. A badly needed role to maintain society, I'm certain.

Anti government? No. Just unimpressed by it. More like a really expensive yawn. It serves society well to keep the talentless busy and off the streets. A few talented folk there but they're probably not reading your feedback. They already know what they want to do with "their" land.

If you get 100,000 other people who agree with you that they're out to lunch, you might get one of them to change their mind if the press got involved. At least until the press moved on to something more interesting.

Your "baiting" deer comment is noted. It was noted many posts ago. You don't like it. Good. So what? Adding the extra words, "and most of what else occurs in Texas." is just you being anti-social without further detail.

Have fun. Be safe hunting. Let us know what yummy stuff you bag to eat. Probably tasty.
 
Gotta admit disturbing reading some of the views here. Time for a positive involving a gun.

Took my 12 year son out of school last Friday. Patient of mine who owns several thousand acres allowed us to pursue our first elk since moving to Colorado.

Up at 4, some packaged donuts and chocolate milk and we're off. Driving around the ranch at daybreak my son spotted some cows. I was able down a cow with well placed lung shot. My son and I than hiked couple hundred yards to the elk. I thanked the good lord for allowing me to have opportunity and we proceeded on dragging it down the mountain. My son genuinely enjoyed our day, gutting it was described as nasty, and he called all the grandparents about it later that day.

This was one of those memorable days in any dad's or sons life. Better than any education he could have received that day! The rifle was a weatherby 300 mag.

Doesn't have to do a lot with gun shows but a proud dad has to brag!:D
 
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Sounds like a lot more fun than I had last Friday! ;)

Memories of tromping around the lakes and hunting birds with grandpa come to mind at that age. No dogs at that time.

Years later, working dogs for helpers.

And... grandpa allowing us cousins to take the .22 Marlin out and destroy pop cans and whatever else we could practice our marksmanship on.

Someone got rid of grandpa's Marlin and all of his shotguns at some point along the way after he passed.

There's a reason there's both a standard and 50th Anniversary edition of that same rifle in the safe here today. There's also a reason it doesn't even get a cheap optic. Just iron sights.

Because... that's the closest I'll get to being 10 years old again, learning how to shoot, with grandpa coaching.

He's been gone a long time now.

(12 was when we got to go out back without grandpa and shoot it. Supervised, 10.

Maybe it's things like that which keep some folks happy with their lever guns that Jose hates so much. He didn't ask.

Sometimes there is a gun in the safe that has no practical purpose whatsoever, other than to make one remember the people who taught them and raised them and loved them enough to show them how to shoot.

What I wouldn't give for one more fishing trip with him. Or dad.

Your son will feel the same way someday. Well worth the day out of school. There are thousands of those yet to come, but only a few hunting trips like that one with dad.
 
My sons favorite gun that I taught him to shoot this year is a Henry 22 lever action. He loves shooting at cans and whatever else with it. I purchased this 5 years ago when we owned our 200 acres with the intent of collecting some guns that will passed down the family line. This along with his single shot 410!

When grandpa passed I got his Winchester 94 30-30 and as expected it's very special to me and sits in the back of the gun case so it's not handled all that often.
 
Thanks, good to know the instruction is good. My brother and I bought one of the bazillion lifetime memberships a few years ago and need to get out there.

I do grow tired of the constant "this deal will never be offered again" email marketing, though.
 
I like lever guns.

Nice combo would be one chambered for .44 Magnum, with a revolver of the same caliber.

Or .357 if that floated your boat.

BTW, that .44 with shot loads can do more damage than you'd think if varmints are the problem.
 
Yep. Anyone who thinks lever guns aren't good tools hasn't spent any time shooting bears up close. By close I mean inside of 25'. My cabin is in the heart of bear country and I have to shoot a few. Sometimes I have to shoo them off the porch first. And bears usually require more than one shot. A lever gun is the best tool for the job. I often carry a 500mag handgun. That works, too.
 
My Dad's .303 Savage (a model 99) is a pretty good lever gun. Made in 1919, it's never failed to fire - hard to beat that for reliability. Shoots 1" groups at 100 yards.

Someone who tries to use it to pound stakes will end up needing medical attention.
 
Different guns have different advantages in different situations. A short lever gun is preferred for bear defense to a bolt action scoped gun. That's why guides carry them to back up their scoped rifle-carrying clients. If you like taking 600 yard shots because you're a lousy stalker you'll want a flat-shooting bolt action rifle. Handguns have advantages in some situations including during big game hunts. I think a guys needs lots of guns to fulfill lots of activities, assuming his activities take him into the field and away from his computer. ;)


Surprised a rifle is carried as bear defense. I would think a shotgun would provide more stopping power. Either with a slug or 3" buckshot shell


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A lot of people think that. Most of them haven't shot bears, though. My 45-70 guide gun and 500 magnum handgun both have pretty much equal energy as a 3" Brenneke slug and can be delivered much more accurately. I have shotguns, too. The 45-70 dethroned them as my weapon of choice given opportunity to carry a long gun. I use the 500 more than anything because it's easier to carry.
 
Thanks, good to know the instruction is good. My brother and I bought one of the bazillion lifetime memberships a few years ago and need to get out there.

I do grow tired of the constant "this deal will never be offered again" email marketing, though.

I lasted about half a day before "Iggy Pizza" incessant marketing phone calls and emails got relegated to the junk/ignore folders ... one thing you have to give him - he is a master marketeer!
 
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