Meanwhile, back at the gun show

[Anthony]

Had a Winchester 94 in 44 mag shell lifter broke in half, wasn't impressed. Gun was mid 90's vintage I believe, never abused not a lot of rounds through it either. The marlins don't look as cool but are probably better guns. Find an old one if you can.

I have a Marlin 336 .30-30 that I take for a walk in the woods occasionally. I bought it 20 years ago, and it has been a reliable, and accurate rifle for its intended purpose which is basically a 100-150 yard deer rifle. It does shoot MOA, or better benchrested.

Longer ranges requires a different caliber bolt gun.

 

[denverpilot]

Like I said, lot of definitions of hunting, none of what is done in Texas meets them.

Ha. This cracks me up. "Real" hunting vs "easy" hunting...

Humans use brains to beat nature. Unless you're going all the way back to throwing rocks at things by hand as they run by, differentiating between one type of "hunting" and another is silly.

We figured out a long time ago how to put animals in pens and feed them until they breed many times over and THEN shoot them. Then some nice union butcher chops 'em up and wraps them in plastic for Kroger.

Any method between individual rock toss by hand and modern ranching, depending on how much time you have on your hands, pretty much covers "how to get meat to eat" for the modern American.

Once you've hit a point in society where you can be as picky about the "how", life must already be pretty good.

(I don't hunt right now. Haven't in years. But I don't care how much brainpower any particular hunter decides to use. Hell, the local slaughterhouse has a meat counter and I can walk in and back out with anything I want wrapped up in cellophane. Rancher already put a .22 squib into its head while it was herded into standing in a chute.)

Anything else you can call "hunting" for all I care. Rancher is "breeding". Rock throwing you'll likely starve before you get something. Anything in between is fine by me.

 

[denverpilot]

Like I said, hope never to mismanage my finances that I have to try and charge people for hunting, nor would I ever want to get so fat and lazy I have to pay to shoot conditioned animals over a corn flinger.

Hmmm. The government charges people to hunt on "public" land around here, last I checked. But at the risk of SZ'ing the thread I won't comment on their mismanaged finances.

Do you mine the ore yourself for your vehicles, too? Milk your own cows? If not you must be "fat and lazy"...

(Or perhaps we as a species figured out this stuff a long time ago. If you feed the critters they walk to you instead of you walking to them. Funny how that works. Hunt however you like. If you miss there will be some nice meat cellophane wrapped at the market out there by the smarter humans... They prefer cash but they'll take credit cards if you're too "fat and lazy" to go to the ATM this week. LOL!)

 

[JoseCuervo]

Hmmm. The government charges people to hunt on "public" land around here, last I checked. But at the risk of SZ'ing the thread I won't comment on their mismanaged finances.

Do you mine the ore yourself for your vehicles, too? Milk your own cows? If not you must be "fat and lazy"...

(Or perhaps we as a species figured out this stuff a long time ago. If you feed the critters they walk to you instead of you walking to them. Funny how that works. Hunt however you like. If you miss there will be some nice meat cellophane wrapped at the market out there by the smarter humans... They prefer cash but they'll take credit cards if you're too "fat and lazy" to go to the ATM this week. LOL!)

Can you provide links to anything with the BLM or the FS charging for hunting in Colorado?

Thanks.




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[JoseCuervo]

Wow, you need to broaden your horizons. I have lever-action, semi-auto, bolt-action, break-action and pump firearms. I practice with all of them and am proficient in each. I use the right tool for the job and none of them has ever driven a tent stake.

I have all the above type of guns also, plus ones you don't list. So I must obviously know more than you.

And a lever gun is a poor hunting choice and was long ago made obsolete in 1898, if not earlier.

The only possible use, besides driving tent stakes, is as a saddle gun, which, only John Wayne needed.

To modify a lever gun, depending on the action chosen would likely negate any reliability argument. And not sure how important reliability is with a deer eating corn under a flinger.


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[weilke]

And a lever gun is a poor hunting choice and was long ago made obsolete in 1898, if not earlier.

Lots of freezers have been filled with lever guns since 1898.

Not my first choice, but I dont like pump shotguns either.

 

[JoseCuervo]

I'm guessing he is a 400lb, 14 year old that hasn't been outside in 3 years? I don't think anyone who actually hunts is this closed minded. I'm with you, different arms for different situations.

Nahhhh, not near 4-bills. And, so far this year I have put 22 nights in tents hunting. Got a freezer full of meat already, and have two girls (one mine) hoping to help them pack out their elk and put two more elk in their freezers. They couldn't get it done this past weekend so we will wait a few more weeks.




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[JoseCuervo]

Lots of freezers have been filled with lever guns since 1898.

Not my first choice, but I dont like pump shotguns either.

What advantage does a lever gun have?

Pretty sure even the U.S. Army got away from them in 1903.

Hell, There are muzzle loaders that are better choices


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[Anthony]

What advantage does a lever gun have?

There really are no "advantages" of a lever gun over a bolt action rifle. The only thing I can think of is that many are lighter, shorter carbines that are handy to carry, can be shouldered easily, and do not require any change in sighting when cycling the action. These are not really "advantages", but do offer someone an alternative. Yes, there are carbine bolt guns, and "mountain rifles" that are lighter and sometimes shorter than a full size bolt gun. Do you need a lever gun? No, but for some using the absolute best isn't the point. It could be nostalgia, or just the fact that some like the concept of working the lever. Who knows. Viva la difference!

Pretty sure even the U.S. Army got away from them in 1903.

Different mission requirment than hunting game that doesn't shoot back.

Hell, There are muzzle loaders that are better choices

And some people choose to hunt with those. Some people choose bows also, but neither of these have advantages over a nice pre '64 Winchester M70 in .30-06.

 

[N5922S]

Many different definitions of hunting, and nothing done in Texas meets the definition.

But, back to the gun shows, there is no bigger collection of looney-tunes than the gun shows. Nothing scarier than the guys walking around wearing NRA hats and trying to buy cases of .223 ammo.

I won't go to the gun shows, as I see some poor safety practices, as evidenced by the news reports that come out every so often on accidental shootings at gun shows.

My next purchase is a 1911 from a custom gun maker.

The people who really discredit us 2nd Amendment supporters are the open-carry loonies. Have they ever given any rational thought to the ramifications of their position?

Parenthetically, looking at these guys, I doubt that any of them has ever been laid.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

Can you provide links to anything with the BLM or the FS charging for hunting in Colorado?

Thanks.




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So, you're saying you don't have to pay for a tag?

 

[weilke]

What advantage does a lever gun have?

Light, short, flat profile, no bolt handle or mag to snag on branches, chambered in rounds suitable for shorter range, follow-up capability without taking your hand off the gun.....

Pretty sure even the U.S. Army got away from them in 1903.

I thought we were talking about hunting ? The US Army at this time uses a varmint caliber illegal to take deer in many states.

 

[Stewartb]

Yep. Marlin guide guns are the gun of choice for most guys who need a bear defense rifle for brushy country. Mine's an 1895 SDT. Fun rifle to shoot. Easy to carry, easy to swing, with iron sights its easy to acquire a close target, and it has excellent follow-up shot capability. The newer Marlin has a higher capacity tube. I need to retro fit. More shots is more better!

My lever gun has a big loop, improved trigger, and a bear-proof ejector mod, all done by Wild West Guns in Anchorage. All are very popular mods.

 

[cgrab]

I have all the above type of guns also, plus ones you don't list. So I must obviously know more than you.

And a lever gun is a poor hunting choice and was long ago made obsolete in 1898, if not earlier.

The only possible use, besides driving tent stakes, is as a saddle gun, which, only John Wayne needed.

To modify a lever gun, depending on the action chosen would likely negate any reliability argument. And not sure how important reliability is with a deer eating corn under a flinger.


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I'll put my PhD up against yours any day, but I don't think you meant to say you really know more than me you just because you have more guns. I guess you keep your lever gun to hammer all those tent stakes which doesn't seem very smart on the face of it.

Please answer this: if you will only use the most modern firearm for hunting why won't you take advantage of modern hunting methods?

The point of picking the lever gun for the modification is that none of the action needs to be modified, only the barrel.

 

[Gerhardt]

My son's first rifle was a .22LR Henry lever action. The advantages that it offered was that it was inexpensive and required effort to chamber a round before firing...i.e. safety precaution for a beginner. And then there's the cool factor. It's the favorite gun for a lot of my friends and it seems like it's loaned out to them more than it's at home. Ironically, it's my son's least favorite, as he prefers the AR w/ the .22LR conversion.

 

[Gerhardt]

As for gun shows, we have one every few months here. I've been to only one in the last decade or so. Huge venue and packed elbow to elbow. There were no bargains to be found, but the advantage was that there was a wide variety of firearms available to look at and see in person. I like armslist.com, and buy firearms there frequently, but it's nice to be able to hold the gun in your hands before buying it.

 

[Norman]

The people who really discredit us 2nd Amendment supporters are the open-carry loonies. Have they ever given any rational thought to the ramifications of their position?

Parenthetically, looking at these guys, I doubt that any of them has ever been laid.

I think you've hit on what makes Jose so ornery.

 

[gkainz]

Ring up gunsite, or whoever the trendy pink mist fantasy camp is, and ask what size t-shirts they sell the most of.

I was at Front Sight a month ago ... while there were a few very large individuals, my unscientific survey said considerably fewer obese to morbidly obese folks attending there than general population.

 

[Anthony]

I was at Front Sight a month ago ... while there were a few very large individuals, my unscientific survey said considerably fewer obese to morbidly obese folks attending there than general population.

That's cool Greg. Did you bring the M-14?

 

[Ghery]

Bowhunters are fit, gun guys not as much to not at all.

Gee, the time I hunted deer in Colorado the bow hunters were road hunting while my partners and I walked the woods. So, how fit were those bow hunters?

This was during muzzle loader season. My repro 1864 Springfield Rifle-Musket in .58 did just fine.

 

[gkainz]

That's cool Greg. Did you bring the M-14?

Ruger P90 and 1911 Compact for backup. It was a 4 day defensive handgun course. They did have a couple of full-auto shoot events, but my calculator and credit card don't run fast enough to handle the dollars per minute it takes to feed those, so I passed. 800 rounds of .45ACP in 4 days was enough for me.

 

[JoseCuervo]

So, you're saying you don't have to pay for a tag?

Not to the land management agencies.


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[JoseCuervo]

Light, short, flat profile, no bolt handle or mag to snag on branches, chambered in rounds suitable for shorter range, follow-up capability without taking your hand off the gun.....







I thought we were talking about hunting ? The US Army at this time uses a varmint caliber illegal to take deer in many states.

Are there chambers gas that aren't suited for shorter range? That might be the worst reason.

Reliability of the Springfield '03 was a big improvement from the late 1800's and lever guns. That reliability is not lost for hunting.


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[JoseCuervo]

I'll put my PhD up against yours any day, but I don't think you meant to say you really know more than me you just because you have more guns. I guess you keep your lever gun to hammer all those tent stakes which doesn't seem very smart on the face of it.

Please answer this: if you will only use the most modern firearm for hunting why won't you take advantage of modern hunting methods?

The point of picking the lever gun for the modification is that none of the action needs to be modified, only the barrel.

I keep the only lever gun I have in the back of my safe as it adds a ridiculous amount of weight to the safe, making it all the more difficult to steal the safe. If I took it out, it would be to hammer tent stakes.

What modern hunting methods do I avoid? I buy the best boots I can find every so often and carry the best backpack I can find and take advantage of every opportunity to hunt I can. This year is only 3 states.

Are you saying the brass on the previous mentioned rechambering is identical? Angles, dimensions?

I have built one gun and was amazed at the amount of time in a machine shop building the gun. Makes me respect factory guns even more.


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[JoseCuervo]

I think you've hit on what makes Jose so ornery.

Can't fault my arguments so you make it personal?


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[Norman]

Can't fault my arguments so you make it personal?


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Right after you implied I was too lazy to Google.

 

[weilke]

I keep the only lever gun I have in the back of my safe as it adds a ridiculous amount of weight to the safe, making it all the more difficult to steal the safe. If I took it out, it would be to hammer tent stakes.

Wow, you must have gone cheap on the 'safe' if a 7lb rifle makes a noticeable difference in its weight. You keep complaining that it is not reliable, maybe it was more reliable if you didn't abuse it by hammering tent stakes with it ?

 

[JoseCuervo]

Right after you implied I was too lazy to Google.

Oh, you were the one that was ignorant to the shootings at gun shows and made the Sarah Palin-Esque comment about the media?

Now do You believe people get shot at gun shows by idiots who shouldn't be allowed near a gun?


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[JoseCuervo]

Wow, you must have gone cheap on the 'safe' if a 7lb rifle makes a noticeable difference in its weight. You keep complaining that it is not reliable, maybe it was more reliable if you didn't abuse it by hammering tent stakes with it ?

Not sure I ever claimed a lever gun is not reliable. I am sure I questioned why someone would think it was more reliable than several other much better choices. No idea why someone would want to carry something not as reliable as possible.

And, you would have to define reliable, as on this continent we don't have a lot of dangerous game, and given the amount of time I hunt in territory inhabited by one of the few critters on this continent that occasionally takes a bite out of people, I have never wished to have a lever gun on my person when there are much better choices for my days afield.

Are you claiming a lever gun is equal to or more reliable than a Model 70 or a Ruger #1?


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[denverpilot]

Can you provide links to anything with the BLM or the FS charging for hunting in Colorado?

Thanks.

Sure.

Look up the phrase "Colorado hunting license".

It ain't free. Doesn't really matter what branch of government collects it.

The government claims to own the land, and hunting out of season without a tag will get you a meeting with their division dedicated to throwing you in jail for poaching. Doesn't matter how hungry you are.

 

[weilke]

Are you claiming a lever gun is equal to or more reliable than a Model 70 or a Ruger #1?

It is a bit of a headscratcher if you compare a lever gun with a single shot rifle or as you did earlier with a muzzle-loader. They are two very different things.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Sure.

Look up the phrase "Colorado hunting license".

It ain't free. Doesn't really matter what branch of government collects it.

The government claims to own the land, and hunting out of season without a tag will get you a meeting with their division dedicated to throwing you in jail for poaching. Doesn't matter how hungry you are.

You don't understand the between federal lands and state of Colorado's wildlife?

You might be better served at the grocery store and not attempting to hunt.

 

[JoseCuervo]

It is a bit of a headscratcher if you compare a lever gun with a single shot rifle or as you did earlier with a muzzle-loader. They are two very different things.

So you don't think lever guns are more reliable than a Model 70 or a Ruger #1?

 

[weilke]

So you don't think lever guns are more reliable than a Model 70 or a Ruger #1?

Did I ever claim that ?

 

[denverpilot]

You don't understand the between federal lands and state of Colorado's wildlife?

You might be better served at the grocery store and not attempting to hunt.

Or you might have forgotten I was responding to your uppity notion that paying a land owner to hunt on their land is somehow "not ok", while paying a branch, any branch, of the country's largest monopoly western land "owner" -- on top of paying the interest on their $20 trillion in debt, while they devalue the very currency you're supposed to pay them with...

... is kinda a really stupid concept, but magically "ok".

But sure. Yep. Sure is better to pay the government to shoot wild animals on their land (because dude... It isn't yours. No matter how good their PR people are, they still close the gate at night...) than to hand a rancher two bills cash and shoot animals on his land.

As if there's any difference between the two. Unless you own the land yourself, you're renting. Try not paying either one and see what happens.

Consume whichever form of land rental you like. Just don't convince yourself you're more than just a renter on either type of land.

 

[ClimbnSink]

Or you might have forgotten I was responding to your uppity notion that paying a land owner to hunt on their land is somehow "not ok", while paying a branch, any branch, of the country's largest monopoly western land "owner" -- on top of paying the interest on their $20 trillion in debt, while they devalue the very currency you're supposed to pay them with...

... is kinda a really stupid concept, but magically "ok".

But sure. Yep. Sure is better to pay the government to shoot wild animals on their land (because dude... It isn't yours. No matter how good their PR people are, they still close the gate at night...) than to hand a rancher two bills cash and shoot animals on his land.

As if there's any difference between the two. Unless you own the land yourself, you're renting. Try not paying either one and see what happens.

Consume whichever form of land rental you like. Just don't convince yourself you're more than just a renter on either type of land.

You are still renting just on a different payment schedule, try not paying your rental tax. Or go and build an airport without the real landowners permission.

 

[Stewartb]

Different guns have different advantages in different situations. A short lever gun is preferred for bear defense to a bolt action scoped gun. That's why guides carry them to back up their scoped rifle-carrying clients. If you like taking 600 yard shots because you're a lousy stalker you'll want a flat-shooting bolt action rifle. Handguns have advantages in some situations including during big game hunts. I think a guys needs lots of guns to fulfill lots of activities, assuming his activities take him into the field and away from his computer.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Did I ever claim that ?

I am trying to figure out if you thin lever guns are reliable, relative to other options.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Or you might have forgotten I was responding to your uppity notion that paying a land owner to hunt on their land is somehow "not ok", while paying a branch, any branch, of the country's largest monopoly western land "owner" -- on top of paying the interest on their $20 trillion in debt, while they devalue the very currency you're supposed to pay them with...

... is kinda a really stupid concept, but magically "ok".

But sure. Yep. Sure is better to pay the government to shoot wild animals on their land (because dude... It isn't yours. No matter how good their PR people are, they still close the gate at night...) than to hand a rancher two bills cash and shoot animals on his land.

As if there's any difference between the two. Unless you own the land yourself, you're renting. Try not paying either one and see what happens.

Consume whichever form of land rental you like. Just don't convince yourself you're more than just a renter on either type of land.

You can go spend time on My Public Lands and not be charged a dime. Not have to ask anyone for permission. You just have to have a pair of boots and the desire to get outside.

If you think every activity has to be culminated in an anti-government rant, you likely are missing some of the best days of your life.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

You can go spend time on My Public Lands and not be charged a dime. Not have to ask anyone for permission. You just have to have a pair of boots and the desire to get outside.

If you think every activity has to be culminated in an anti-government rant, you likely are missing some of the best days of your life.

So, you don't pay taxes? Otherwise, you were charged for that land