Maybe Chevy was right NA

[SoonerAviator]

Not so much the early six cylinder Powerglide models...

Lol, well there are always some rough models/years in most vehicle's lineage. The FIL has a 1961 Vette (among his many of various generations up through the C6) and while it isn't a speed demon in modern terms, it wasn't terrible given the other options in '61. The slushbox is notably awful compared to even the autos of a decade later. I actually prefer the look of the 50's T-birds more than the C1 'Vettes.

For me, the C7 is the epitome of the Corvette design. The lines are both sinister and feminine. There's no mistaking a Corvette for anything else from any angle. The C8, meh. From a distance it could be any number of exotic cars. Won't know what it is until it gets within 100ft. I get why they are going the mid-engine direction, I just don't like how the design looks. I will be looking around for a nice used C7 Grand Sport or Z06 with the 7MT here in a few years when they've dropped in price for the C8.

 

[FormerHangie]

Like @Ted DuPuis , the Corvette is dead to me with no manual transmission option.

Were you going to buy one if it had been available with a manual?

Right, and the Porsche 911 GT2 RS is over $250K. What are you getting at? A base 911 Carrera is a $95K vehicle which goes toe-to-toe with a Corvette Stingray for $60K. The $85K Corvette Z06 matches up (actually beats it in most performance categories) with the Porsche 911 GT3 which starts at $130K. Apples to apples.

I haven't driven this Corvette, but I have driven a recent 911 GT3, and it's amazing, I can't convey how good it is with words. It could very well be worth the extra $50 K.

I have to admit to agreeing with Ted in one respect, the lack of a manual is a turn ff, but not a big one. While automatic transmissions rob smaller engines of power, I suspect the effect is far less pronounce don larger engines. I believe most of the exotic supercars are now sorting automatics as well.

Steingar: the man who has spent a couple decades driving a midengine roundabout.

Here's a list of all the manual transmission cars available in the U. S. for 2020. Names not on the list: Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Jaguar. Also not on the list is the Audi R8.

 

[RudyP]

To be fair, the extra power robbed by the automatic has been a thing of the past for some time for most automatics. The C8 has a dual clutch transmission not a slushbox/torque converter automatic, and my expectation is that it would rob very little horsepower. But for me it's about the experience, and I've never found an automatic of any flavor that gives the experience I want.



As I stated above, and have said many times before, it's not about saying I'm better than the machine. It's about the experience of driving. It's about the enjoyment of the experience. I'm not trying to win any races, I'm trying to enjoy the drive. It's why I bought my Ram brand new and opted for the lowest power option (with 35 less HP and around 250 lb/ft less torque) to get that third pedal with the G56 manual transmission instead of either of the two automatic transmission options (68RFE or Aisin, both of which are fine units, especially the Aisin). It's why when I bought my first car, a 1982 Jaguar XJ-S V12, I forcibly removed the TH400 3-speed automatic and replaced it with a Tremec TKO 5-speed. Note that car never had a manual transmission of any sort. Of course in that case the performance was transformed, but it's not about that.

It's about having that third pedal, using all four of my limbs in driving the vehicle, hearing the transmission whine, getting the perfect upshift and downshift, eventually getting the perfect lap.

That scene gets how I feel about driving perfectly.

So what am I going to start thinking about? The next car I'm going to build after the Cobra. I will let you guess what sort of transmission it will have.

I know at least one man who will back me on this mindset... @RudyP to the white courtesy phone please.

I'm with you 100%!

I'm 100% manual* (see pic below of current cars) and it's for the experience, not the specs...


* at least I will be shortly, the 992 (bottom right corner) isn't due to be delivered for another couple months.

 

[Ted]

I'm with you 100%!

I'm 100% manual* (see pic below of current cars) and it's for the experience, not the specs...
View attachment 81676

* at least I will be shortly, the 992 (bottom right corner) isn't due to be delivered for another couple months.

To change the lines in Carroll Shelby’s speech at the Mustang unveiling in Ford v Ferrari a bit:

“But there are some men who find something they have to do - drive cars with manual transmissions. I’m that man, and I know one other man who feels exactly the same way. His name is RudyP.”

 

[SoonerAviator]

I haven't driven this Corvette, but I have driven a recent 911 GT3, and it's amazing, I can't convey how good it is with words. It could very well be worth the extra $50 K.

Well, if looking at a Corvettes taillights is worth $50K, so be it. I’m not saying that there aren’t things that the Porsche does better, but at that point it’s more of “do you want a screaming six in a well-sorted chasis, or a supercharged banshee of an American V8 overcoming any chassis limitations with brute force?” The 911 in its various forms has aged very well. The Corvette offers the performance at a significantly lower entry price. The C7’s interior leaves little for Porsche or others to mock (the C5/C6 was deservedly chastised for it). I wouldn’t be surprised if the C8 morphs into a hybrid platform like the 918 Spyder.

 

[ebetancourt]

I like my C7, Z51, MT. My dislike of ATs has always been more about the torque converter. The C8 automated manual will suit me just fine. But I’m in the “don’t buy version one of anything” camp.

 

[Ted]

Were you going to buy one if it had been available with a manual?

I can't answer for @Sac Arrow but here's my response.

I've never been in the market for a Corvette. And as I discussed with @bradg33 when it first was announced, I'm not sure that calling it a Corvette is really the right thing, given how much of a departure it is from the previous Corvettes (the mid engine being a big pat of that).

However I am in the market for a mid engine performance car. Right now I'm thinking a GT40 or XJ13 replica after I build the Cobra. Reality is it will cost me about as much to build one of those as it would cost me to buy a C8, at least a lower cost C8. And the C8 would have a warranty and financing. So yeah, I wouldn't be knocking on the door for the first one, but I would consider it.

 

[asicer]

I'm with you 100%!

I'm 100% manual* (see pic below of current cars) and it's for the experience, not the specs...
View attachment 81676

* at least I will be shortly, the 992 (bottom right corner) isn't due to be delivered for another couple months.

Somehow having both a Porsche and a Ferrari in the same garage seems both very wrong and very right, an interesting exercise in contradictions.

 

[FormerHangie]

Well, if looking at a Corvettes taillights is worth $50K, so be it. I’m not saying that there aren’t things that the Porsche does better, but at that point it’s more of “do you want a screaming six in a well-sorted chasis, or a supercharged banshee of an American V8 overcoming any chassis limitations with brute force?” The 911 in its various forms has aged very well. The Corvette offers the performance at a significantly lower entry price. The C7’s interior leaves little for Porsche or others to mock (the C5/C6 was deservedly chastised for it). I wouldn’t be surprised if the C8 morphs into a hybrid platform like the 918 Spyder.

Like I said, I haven't driven the Corvette, yet. I have driven a Ferrari 458 Italia, a Nissan GTR, and an Audi R8, and I would take the 911 GT3 over any of them. Lap times are only important if you are racing, and I'm not any more. All the driving instructors that I've driven with at Xtreme Xperience have said the same thing, that the 911 GT3 is the best car they have in their fleet.

Here's an on track review from 2015. Guess what? The newest one is even better. Don't believe me? Go drive one, you'll be a believer.

 

[ktup-flyer]

I can't answer for @Sac Arrow but here's my response.

I've never been in the market for a Corvette. And as I discussed with @bradg33 when it first was announced, I'm not sure that calling it a Corvette is really the right thing, given how much of a departure it is from the previous Corvettes (the mid engine being a big pat of that).

However I am in the market for a mid engine performance car. Right now I'm thinking a GT40 or XJ13 replica after I build the Cobra. Reality is it will cost me about as much to build one of those as it would cost me to buy a C8, at least a lower cost C8. And the C8 would have a warranty and financing. So yeah, I wouldn't be knocking on the door for the first one, but I would consider it.

The Corvette was supposed to be mid-engine over 60 years ago, but they owned too much of the US auto market, and the government made them shut down their motorsports program. If they would have grown much more, the government would have shut the company down, so the Zora Corvette got axed. We got the C2 instead...can’t really be mad about that

 

[Bacho]

Well, if looking at a Corvettes taillights is worth $50K, so be it. I’m not saying that there aren’t things that the Porsche does better, but at that point it’s more of “do you want a screaming six in a well-sorted chasis, or a supercharged banshee of an American V8 overcoming any chassis limitations with brute force?” The 911 in its various forms has aged very well. The Corvette offers the performance at a significantly lower entry price. The C7’s interior leaves little for Porsche or others to mock (the C5/C6 was deservedly chastised for it). I wouldn’t be surprised if the C8 morphs into a hybrid platform like the 918 Spyder.

My friend just bought a C7, I got to try it for size. Have you sat in a late model european luxury car? The interior was still inferior IMO.

Time will tell if the performance and fit/finish is worthy to compare to a Porsche. I rather doubt it.

 

[steingar]

My friend just bought a C7, I got to try it for size. Have you sat in a late model european luxury car? The interior was still inferior IMO.

Time will tell if the performance and fit/finish is worthy to compare to a Porsche. I rather doubt it.

For the price, you could buy the latest Vette and have a top notch interior shop redo it. You'd have something faster, somewhat more exotic (only the first year) and probably have a better interior than the Porsche to boot. Were I in the market I'd not let he lack of a manual stop me. I'm not in any way certain I could manage that amount of power smoothly. Never had the opportunity to try.

 

[Ted]

The Corvette was supposed to be mid-engine over 60 years ago, but they owned too much of the US auto market, and the government made them shut down their motorsports program. If they would have grown much more, the government would have shut the company down, so the Zora Corvette got axed. We got the C2 instead...can’t really be mad about that

That may be true (I'm not up on my Corvette history), in which case you could argue from that perspective that this is just finally catching up with what they'd been trying to do for 60+ years. At the same time, 60+ years later the Corvette is very well established as what it is, which is a front engine rear wheel drive car, and the C8 doesn't scream "Corvette" to me. But then again GM is adamant that the Corvette be the highest performance vehicle that GM produces, so there you go.

I didn't like the current gen Mustang as a Mustang when it came out, but it's grown on me.

 

[SoonerAviator]

My friend just bought a C7, I got to try it for size. Have you sat in a late model european luxury car? The interior was still inferior IMO.

Time will tell if the performance and fit/finish is worthy to compare to a Porsche. I rather doubt it.

I've been in a standard 911, 2017 model I think, as a passenger. The Porsche 911 isn't a European luxury car, either. It's a European Sports Car. It's not like the Porsche interior is on par with an Aston Martin or high-end Mercedes. Also, I didn't say that the Corvette would exceed fit-n-finish of the Porsche, I said it's nothing to scoff at because the quality is really very close to the Porsche, especially given the fact that it outperforms it's competition at a markedly lower price. If I were to pick an item that is probably under-par to the Porsche on "fit-n-finish" items, I'd probably say the exterior paint was the likely candidate before interior came into question.

 

[bradg33]

A few things: I own a 2016 C7 Corvette; as @Ted DuPuis notes, I'm a purist so in a "Corvette," the engine goes in the front. I have had occasion to see the C8 demonstrator in person at a Road Show event, which gave me the chance to look it over and sit in it. I'll concede it's an exceptionally nice car. And for the money, it's about the best thing out there (as the Vette has been for awhile). I'm also in the process of selling the Vette, having just picked up a 2014 Cadillac CTS-V wagon. The Vette, even the base Stingray, is brutally fast but it's somewhat unrefined. Which is, in part, why I picked up the Caddy; I wanted a few more creature comforts but didn't want to give up the power (the wagon has 556-580hp, depending on what article you believe).

 

[bradg33]

I've been in a standard 911, 2017 model I think, as a passenger. The Porsche 911 isn't a European luxury car, either. It's a European Sports Car. It's not like the Porsche interior is on par with an Aston Martin or high-end Mercedes. Also, I didn't say that the Corvette would exceed fit-n-finish of the Porsche, I said it's nothing to scoff at because the quality is really very close to the Porsche, especially given the fact that it outperforms it's competition at a markedly lower price. If I were to pick an item that is probably under-par to the Porsche on "fit-n-finish" items, I'd probably say the exterior paint was the likely candidate before interior came into question.

I test drove a 911 recently. Coming from a Corvette, the non-turbo 911 is comically underpowered. The one I drove had a good exhaust note, but with my foot to the floor, I was wondering if it was ever going to actually "go" (it didn't). It did handle amazingly well, a true driver's car. I'm told the Turbo is where you've got to go if you want kick-in-the-ass power, but sadly a decent Turbo was out of my budget.

 

[SoonerAviator]

I test drove a 911 recently. Coming from a Corvette, the non-turbo 911 is comically underpowered. The one I drove had a good exhaust note, but with my foot to the floor, I was wondering if it was ever going to actually "go" (it didn't). It did handle amazingly well, a true driver's car. I'm told the Turbo is where you've got to go if you want kick-in-the-ass power, but sadly a decent Turbo was out of my budget.

Oh for sure. There's just not a way to squeeze enough out the smaller displacement (by almost half) as an NA engine. The 911 Turbo is the minimum to compare against the 'Vette. They are truly well-sorted though (should be after essentially the same body/design for half a century). It's remarkable how balanced they are in braking power and cornering, where the Corvette has to be managed a lot more or you'll be headed for the scenery. To my understanding on a race track, the Viper ACR was sort of akin to merging the Corvettes brute power with the balanced and predictable handling of the Porsche. The Viper made quite a few heads turn when they came out with the ACR model as kind of a last hurrah.

 

[Ted]

I test drove a 911 recently. Coming from a Corvette, the non-turbo 911 is comically underpowered. The one I drove had a good exhaust note, but with my foot to the floor, I was wondering if it was ever going to actually "go" (it didn't). It did handle amazingly well, a true driver's car. I'm told the Turbo is where you've got to go if you want kick-in-the-ass power, but sadly a decent Turbo was out of my budget.

I test drove a Boxster about 5-6 years ago and that was more or less how I felt about it. I had been driving my upgraded 3000GT VR-4 (estimated around 450 HP). I liked the car itself and the way it drove, but coming from the VR-4 the power was quite lackluster.

Of course, here in Kansas where all the roads are straight horsepower is the primary form of excitement we have driving unless we get to a track. Back in Pennsylvania, it was different (although the faster cars were still more fun than the slower cars).

 

[SoonerAviator]

I test drove a Boxster about 5-6 years ago and that was more or less how I felt about it. I had been driving my upgraded 3000GT VR-4 (estimated around 450 HP). I liked the car itself and the way it drove, but coming from the VR-4 the power was quite lackluster.

Of course, here in Kansas where all the roads are straight horsepower is the primary form of excitement we have driving unless we get to a track. Back in Pennsylvania, it was different (although the faster cars were still more fun than the slower cars).

Those Allegheny roads are a blast aren't they? I never got the chance to run through them in anything sportier than a GT Mustang or SS Camaro as rentals, but there's some really great stretches of road in rural-ish PA.

 

[Salty]

Those Allegheny roads are a blast aren't they? I never got the chance to run through them in anything sportier than a GT Mustang or SS Camaro as rentals, but there's some really great stretches of road in rural-ish PA.

Back in the 80s I had the opportunity to drive a party of 3 in wedding garb to a wedding we were late for in a 944 across much of the western PA mountainside. The owner was too tall to drive with someone crammed in the back, so I got to drive. Even with the underpowered ‘44, the extra stress and passenger load it was still a blast! That car stuck to the road like glue that day.

 

[Ted]

Those Allegheny roads are a blast aren't they? I never got the chance to run through them in anything sportier than a GT Mustang or SS Camaro as rentals, but there's some really great stretches of road in rural-ish PA.

This was the first part of my commute in the morning when I lived there (specific locations withheld):

https://goo.gl/maps/6fRE1h6QoUSNGJTE6

I lived just off of PA route 864. I remember when driving with the realtor to look at the house, I said "I get to drive this road every day if I buy this house?" in awe. I never got tired of the road in the 6 years and thousand or more times I drove it while living there. Of course, that was just the commute, tons of other roads that we enjoyed.

Yes, really great, no matter what you were driving or riding. If you had a good handling vehicle all the more fun. Especially when we then moved to Ohio, that was hard to give up. At this point I'm mostly used to the flatland straight roads, and the back roads here in Kansas are pretty if not lacking of curves.

 

[SoonerAviator]

This was the first part of my commute in the morning when I lived there (specific locations withheld):

https://goo.gl/maps/6fRE1h6QoUSNGJTE6

I lived just off of PA route 864. I remember when driving with the realtor to look at the house, I said "I get to drive this road every day if I buy this house?" in awe. I never got tired of the road in the 6 years and thousand or more times I drove it while living there. Of course, that was just the commute, tons of other roads that we enjoyed.

Yes, really great, no matter what you were driving or riding. If you had a good handling vehicle all the more fun. Especially when we then moved to Ohio, that was hard to give up. At this point I'm mostly used to the flatland straight roads, and the back roads here in Kansas are pretty if not lacking of curves.

I traveled to Altoona, PA for an average of 2 weeks per quarter for about 4-5 years. Most of the roads I liked were in between State College and Altoona on the East side of US99. Lots of mountain valley roads/cutoffs, switchbacks, and tight curves following various rivers and their tributaries. Steep slopes on either side of the roads meant few houses or traffic in most sections, so you could get a bit more playful with the throttle. As a fellow-flat lander (although Tulsa ain't got nothin' on Kansas, lol) I never tired of the drives in PA. Truly beautiful country and I took many a spirited drive in the evenings just to take advantage of my limited time there.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Were you going to buy one if it had been available with a manual?



I haven't driven this Corvette, but I have driven a recent 911 GT3, and it's amazing, I can't convey how good it is with words. It could very well be worth the extra $50 K.



Here's a list of all the manual transmission cars available in the U. S. for 2020. Names not on the list: Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Jaguar. Also not on the list is the Audi R8.

The short answer is no, but let's just say that should I be in the market for a mid-engine exotic sports car, the new Corvette would have been on my radar if it had been equipped with a manual.

I'm really not in to expensive, luxury, or high performance cars anyway. To me, the driving experience is the same whether I'm driving a base model Sentra (which still has power everything) or a high end Acura or Lexus. If I want performance, I'm going with a motorcycle. I can buy a new liter class supersport for around $15K. The equivalent in a car is going to start at $150K.

 

[FormerHangie]

The short answer is no, but let's just say that should I be in the market for a mid-engine exotic sports car, the new Corvette would have been on my radar if it had been equipped with a manual.

I'm really not in to expensive, luxury, or high performance cars anyway. To me, the driving experience is the same whether I'm driving a base model Sentra (which still has power everything) or a high end Acura or Lexus. If I want performance, I'm going with a motorcycle. I can buy a new liter class supersport for around $15K. The equivalent in a car is going to start at $150K.

If you were in the market for a new, mid engined exotic sports car with a manual transmission, I think you'd be out of luck, period, because I can't think of any available in the US. There are plenty of used ones to be had, but new, probably the closest thing I can think of is a 911 GT3, which is a better driving car than any of the used ones. The GT3 RS and GT2 are only available with the dual clutch PDK, which I might add is a fabulous transmission.

I need to get something track worthy in the next couple of years. Right now I'm leaning towards a Subaru BRZ, and that I'd want in a six speed manual. But if the sports car fairy came one night, I'd take a GT3 with the PDK.

 

[steingar]

The short answer is no, but let's just say that should I be in the market for a mid-engine exotic sports car, the new Corvette would have been on my radar if it had been equipped with a manual.

I'm really not in to expensive, luxury, or high performance cars anyway. To me, the driving experience is the same whether I'm driving a base model Sentra (which still has power everything) or a high end Acura or Lexus. If I want performance, I'm going with a motorcycle. I can buy a new liter class supersport for around $15K. The equivalent in a car is going to start at $150K.

Back when I had my death machine my buddy would always tell me about all the incredible cars he saw on Top Gear. I would smugly tell him that I could smoke any of them on my six thousand dollar race bike.

 

[Ted]

Back when I had my death machine my buddy would always tell me about all the incredible cars he saw on Top Gear. I would smugly tell him that I could smoke any of them on my six thousand dollar race bike.

That was I also enjoyed about liter bikes. Even my friends who had much faster cars than me (modified Supras, etc.) were no match for me on a Bandit 1200S.

But as you know, a car is a different experience than a motorcycle. Not saying a better one, but a different one. The MU-2 is faster than any of them, at least as far as top speed is concerned.

 

[steingar]

That was I also enjoyed about liter bikes. Even my friends who had much faster cars than me (modified Supras, etc.) were no match for me on a Bandit 1200S.

But as you know, a car is a different experience than a motorcycle. Not saying a better one, but a different one. The MU-2 is faster than any of them, at least as far as top speed is concerned.

My old motorcycle (Honda 954rr) was just as fast as my Mooney, though if I pushed it to Vne on a dive I could outrun the bike by a bit.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

I thought of this thread driving home today. Europe is still a majority manual transmission continent. I drive an automatic like an American weirdo. Anyway, you can never convince me that a manual is more efficient based on the lolly gagging shifting going on over here. Holy cow they take forever to accelerate through gears.

Yes I know, that has nothing to do with the transmission.

 

[Ted]

I thought of this thread driving home today. Europe is still a majority manual transmission continent. I drive an automatic like an American weirdo. Anyway, you can never convince me that a manual is more efficient based on the lolly gagging shifting going on over here. Holy cow they take forever to accelerate through gears.

Yes I know, that has nothing to do with the transmission.

Oh, sure it does. My truck is absolutely slower accelerating through the gears with the manual, especially if I start in 1st gear (normally I start in 2nd unless on an uphill or with a trailer). An automatic would be "better" from that perspective.

But, different kinds of efficiency.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

Oh, sure it does. My truck is absolutely slower accelerating through the gears with the manual, especially if I start in 1st gear (normally I start in 2nd unless on an uphill or with a trailer). An automatic would be "better" from that perspective.

But, different kinds of efficiency.

There is very little efficiency in driving around Germans. They have an autobahn and drive slower than sloths. It is painful. I shake my head everytime I pass a Porsche in my non sports car.

 

[tspear]

But, different kinds of efficiency.

When is a manual more efficient now? I know back in the 80s, a Camry got a god 5 MPG better with the manual. But now?

I can get how manual can make you "feel" more connected to the road; or more fun to drive. But I cannot think of a single way a manual is more efficient now.

Tim

 

[JOhnH]

Like @Ted DuPuis , the Corvette is dead to me with no manual transmission option.

Where's that little fiddle thingy?

 

[JOhnH]

Were I in the market for a supercar a Vette would be very high on my list. Damn things will do anything a supercar will do at 1/4 the price. And they finally put the engine where it belongs.

Yeah, it will be almost as fast as a Tesla. It will handle almost as well. And it won't cost way too much more, at least initially.

 

[SoonerAviator]

When is a manual more efficient now? I know back in the 80s, a Camry got a god 5 MPG better with the manual. But now?

I can get how manual can make you "feel" more connected to the road; or more fun to drive. But I cannot think of a single way a manual is more efficient now.

Tim

Auto has no idea what terrain is up ahead, so it has to be reactive when it notices you’ve started going up a hill, then it picks a gear based on initial load, then hunts around until it finds the right spot. Same for downhills. Manual transmission means you can be proactive and choose the gear you need the first time.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Auto has no idea what terrain is up ahead, so it has to be reactive when it notices you’ve started going up a hill, then it picks a gear based on initial load, then hunts around until it finds the right spot. Same for downhills. Manual transmission means you can be proactive and choose the gear you need the first time.

Yep. I’ve driven autos that don’t get it. I would rather me have the control.

 

[tspear]

Auto has no idea what terrain is up ahead, so it has to be reactive when it notices you’ve started going up a hill, then it picks a gear based on initial load, then hunts around until it finds the right spot. Same for downhills. Manual transmission means you can be proactive and choose the gear you need the first time.

I get how that can be smoother. But how is that more efficient? Being proactive will cause you to burn more fuel in almost every case.

Tim

Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk

 

[Zeldman]

Auto has no idea what terrain is up ahead, so it has to be reactive when it notices you’ve started going up a hill, then it picks a gear based on initial load, then hunts around until it finds the right spot. Same for downhills. Manual transmission means you can be proactive and choose the gear you need the first time.

Agree except for one thing. The auto tranny doesn't have any idea of changing road conditions, but the driver does. Or unless the cruise control is on. Also the auto tranny doesn't hunt around unless the driver is making constant large changes with the right foot. The computer senses the changes and then chooses the correct action. I would say gear but too many CV trannies around.

I drove manual trannies for years, until I got an Alison auto. No manual for me after that. And yes, I know a determined person can tear up any type of tranny if they purposefully abuse it.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

When is a manual more efficient now? I know back in the 80s, a Camry got a god 5 MPG better with the manual. But now?

I can get how manual can make you "feel" more connected to the road; or more fun to drive. But I cannot think of a single way a manual is more efficient now.

Tim

A German auto magazine did a test with 5 different cars last year testing the efficiency between the auto and manual models. If I remember correctly, the auto won 4 of the 5. The more efficient manual was in a smaller car I think. I couldn’t get the whole of the story since my German sucks.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Agree except for one thing. The auto tranny doesn't have any idea of changing road conditions, but the driver does. Or unless the cruise control is on. Also the auto tranny doesn't hunt around unless the driver is making constant large changes with the right foot. The computer senses the changes and then chooses the correct action. I would say gear but too many CV trannies around.

I drove manual trannies for years, until I got an Alison auto. No manual for me after that. And yes, I know a determined person can tear up any type of tranny if they purposefully abuse it.

Sure, there are always caveats to the statement. I've had some auto transmissions pick one gear starting out on the hill, then upshift, then upshift again while the gas pedal never moved. The grade of hill may have changed, it may have slowed down below where the computer programming told it to choose a lower gear, throttle position versus engine RPM, etc. If you drive up a hill every day, I bet you learn which gear to be in with a manual transmission so that you just choose it from the start.

 

[Ted]

As I said above, automatic transmissions have come a long way in terms of efficiency. Another thing is that modern automatic transmissions (as in, within the past 15 years or so) have tended to have as many or more gears than their manual counterparts. For example, the current 5.0 Mustangs have a 10-speed auto or a 6-speed manual. The end result is that the automatics can get a more efficient gear (as far as engine efficiency) than the manual in many cases, and that produces improvement.

Even on my Ram, the 6-speed autos don't need a granny gear because it has a torque converter. End result is the 6th gear ends up being a lower RPM than my 6th gear - I want to say that at 70 MPH the automatics are around 1500 RPM vs. mine is about 1800 RPM. On a big diesel, those 300 RPM make a significant difference.

I've actually considered looking at a Gear Vendors Overdrive for my truck as that would help get my RPMs down on the highway and give me better ratios on the highway, help to fill a couple of gears where there are holes in the ratios, and also be better for starting off (1st gear is too deep for normal starting, but 2nd gear is too tall for starting off a lot of times).

But at $3k or so plus my time to install... that's a bit of a hard sell at this point, especially with most of my driving being local. Reality is I'll never make that money back on fuel savings, and I have enough other stuff to work on now.