Marijuana Possession

[Unregistered]

Hello,

In California, marijuana will be decriminalized for recreational use and possession under 1oz according to SB1449 starting January 1st. This reduces the possession charge from a misdemeanor to an infraction with a $100 fine, just like a traffic ticket, and removes the requirement to appear in court.

How does this affect the FAA side of things? Obviously, flying while under the influence of the drug is against the rules (91.17.a.3). But would a fine for possession be cause to notify the FAA or AME? Is that even the case under current laws? Does it vary from state to state?

Also, the way I understand it, a person with a medical marijuana card who could legally possess marijuana according to state laws, although illegal under federal law, would be able to bring Marijuana on an aircraft provided the aircraft stayed in the state. Am I reading this right?

§91.19
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate a civil aircraft within the United States with knowledge that narcotic drugs, marihuana, and depressant or stimulant drugs or substances as defined in Federal or State statutes are carried in the aircraft.

(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to any carriage of narcotic drugs, marihuana, and depressant or stimulant drugs or substances authorized by or under any Federal or State statute or by any Federal or State agency.

 

[weilke]

You should probably ground yourself until you had a chance to discuss the terminal cancer, end-stage AIDS, MS or 'extreme-pain' that is ailing you with your AME.

 

[Sac Arrow]

I suspect that the intent of the second paragraph is to allow transport of seized illegal drugs by law enforement agencies aboard an aircraft. Federal law still prohibits you for posessing medical marijuana and the State cannot override that, so I do not believe that provision would apply to you.

 

[Gary F]

According to Peter Tosh in his song Bush Doctor it is also good for asthma and glaucoma. There are rumors that some physicians in my state have prescribed it for tennis elbow. I wonder if that's what people had in mind when they voted for medical marijuana. From a medical perspective I think the stuff is unhealthful.

It is interesting that tobacco is being increasingly vilified by our government (as it should be) as the restrictions on marijuana are being loosened. I don't think that marijuana is any better for your lungs or circulatory system than tobacco.

I think the question above is more of a legal question than medical one. I am curious as to what the lawyers will say.

 

[timwinters]

It is interesting that tobacco is being increasingly vilified by our government (as it should be) as the restrictions on marijuana are being loosened. I don't think that marijuana is any better for your lungs or circulatory system than tobacco.

It's definitely not good for you but I doubt that many (any?) people smoke the equivalent of a pack or two a day of pot.

 

[weilke]

According to Peter Tosh in his song Bush Doctor it is also good for asthma and glaucoma.

It actually works for glaucoma, in the sense of lowering IOP, the main effect however is that if you are stoned enough, you don't really care about your eyesight that much.

There are rumors that some physicians in my state have prescribed it for tennis elbow. I wonder if that's what people had in mind when they voted for medical marijuana.

No kidding.

CNN had two recent documentaries on the pot industry. When the medical mj laws were being pushed, the protagonists were end-stage MS and cancer patients. The stats show the holders of MJ cards in CA and CO to be for the most part young males with the condition of 'extreme pain'.

It is interesting that tobacco is being increasingly vilified by our government (as it should be) as the restrictions on marijuana are being loosened.

Tobacco tax revenues are dropping, the tobacco settlement money is spent, if you legalize and tax MJ, you can make up for the lost revenue.

I think the question above is more of a legal question than medical one. I am curious as to what the lawyers will say.

I think its a non-question. If you are sick enough that none of the legal prescription drugs will do to relieve your suffering, you probably shouldn't pilot an airplane.

Along the coasts and border areas, CBP is performing spot-checks on private aircraft (at times in cooperation with FAA safety inspectors). I dont think they will feel particularly restrained by a state MJ law if they find someone with weed on board.

 

[Gary F]

I think his question also had to do with how the FAA will deal with marijuana if it is decriminalized in your state. I think that as far as the federal government is concerned it is illegal as it has ever been. Will those ticketed for marijuana possession be required to report it to the FAA when they apply for a medical?

If I get stuck in a nursing home with no hope of ever piloting any aircraft I might start using the stuff myself, self prescribed for aviation withdrawal syndrome.

 

[AdamZ]

According to Peter Tosh in his song Bush Doctor it is also good for asthma and glaucoma. There are rumors that some physicians in my state have prescribed it for tennis elbow. I wonder if that's what people had in mind when they voted for medical marijuana. From a medical perspective I think the stuff is unhealthful.

It is interesting that tobacco is being increasingly vilified by our government (as it should be) as the restrictions on marijuana are being loosened. I don't think that marijuana is any better for your lungs or circulatory system than tobacco.

I think the question above is more of a legal question than medical one. I am curious as to what the lawyers will say.

Were to busy working for tort reform to deal with this stuff. :wink2: Sorry just couldn't resist. Its actually an excellent question. My guess is that if you are using MJ as Medical MJ then the underlying ailment would probably disqualify you from a medical Plus you have to disclose your medical visits. Now if in fact they have " decriminalized' possession of 1 oz or less I don't know how that would affect the FAA medical. Certainly conviction would not be a misdemeanor. I'd have to go get my last medical form and see how they ask the question. Best bet is don't smoke it and ya won't have to worry bout it. Also keep in mind that if you ding something and they find metabolites of THC in your blood its a world of problems.

As for the health thing. I have seen on TV that many who use medical MJ don't smoke it but vaporize it so they don't get the smoke not sure how that affects the lungs.

 

[Gary F]

It's definitely not good for you but I doubt that many (any?) people smoke the equivalent of a pack or two a day of pot.

I don't think that it is safe to assume that marijuana is equivalent in toxicity to tobacco. It may be better or it might be worse. I don't care what anybody consumes or uses as long as I do no suffer the consequences. I hope that I will not be sharing the sky with any stoner pilots.

 

[Areeda]

You should probably ground yourself until you had a chance to discuss the terminal cancer, end-stage AIDS, MS or 'extreme-pain' that is ailing you with your AME.

Yeah right.

some of the doctor's letters are legit but I know people who have them for:
headaches
menstrual cramps
back pain that only occurs during doctor's visits

and other not-so serious ailments

Some dispensaries will even get the letter for you.

Joe

 

[Lawreston]

During November the State of Maine "elected" medical MJ clinics. Nearly all of the approved applicant clinics are being run by a California organization.

 

[Henning]

It's definitely not good for you but I doubt that many (any?) people smoke the equivalent of a pack or two a day of pot.

One joint has the tar equivalent of about 15 "light" cigarettes, although it doesn't contain the vasoconstrictor nicotine.

 

[Everskyward]

Why can't it be treated like the multitude of other prescription drugs which you need to be free of before flying?

 

[Henning]

I don't think that it is safe to assume that marijuana is equivalent in toxicity to tobacco. It may be better or it might be worse. I don't care what anybody consumes or uses as long as I do no suffer the consequences. I hope that I will not be sharing the sky with any stoner pilots.

You already do, plenty of them....

 

[bbchien]

Cannabinoids in the urine are grounding whether medical or not. The side effect profile of the "medication" is unacceptable to the FAA.

Carriage? Don't count on the LEO community to use their heads. After all, John and Martha were cuffed at gunpoint, which they took half an hour to find the VIN number.....

 

[poadeleted20]

I'd have to go get my last medical form and see how they ask the question.

"...use of illegal substance in the last two years" (18n). And no matter what the State of California says, the Federal government still considers marijuana an "illegal substance." So it doesn't even matter if you were ever arrested or convicted or fined or "infracted" or whatever -- if you merely used it, you must report it. One might be tempted to lie and not report such use if it was never made part of any official record, but even if it's just an "infraction," it's on the record for the FAA to find and hose you if you lie about the answer to 18n. While one might try arguing that possession of it doesn't necessarily mean you used it, the FAA's standard of proof is merely "more likely than not" rather than "beyond a reasonable doubt," and lying on the 8500-8 generally gets the FAA's version of the death penalty.

 

[bbchien]

Adam, make sure it's a form GG. Form FF was much more vague.

 

[Unregistered]

Many people are grossly misinformed of marijuana. Many Americans only know what the government tells them about it. Research about the plant cannabis, and more importantly the drug the plant creates, THC, will show the truth. Marijuana was first criminalized in the USA in the early 1900s because of racism towards the Mexican's that used it, not because it is a danger to society.

I will agree that many people with MMJ cards do not actually need it for medical reasons. That is far from the point I am trying to make. Our society is accepting of alcohol use. Obviously, it is not safe to drive a vehicle, especially an aircraft while impaired. Just like alcohol, the effects of THC also ware off a few hours after ingestion. The effects of marijuana are not worse than that of being drunk... if anything, alcohol impairs a persons driving ability much more so than marijuana. Obviously you do not want to be flying the skies with a "stoned" pilot just as much as you don't want to be flying the skies with a "drunk" pilot.

Marijuana effects the body much less than does alcohol. It is completely possible to kill yourself by drinking to much alcohol, not to mention the damage alcohol causes to the liver. Marijuana has NEVER been attributed to a death. In fact, THC has been shown to prevent and fight some types of tumors and cancer.

Marijuana is not even comparable to Tobacco. The only thing they have in common is that both are "smoked." Marijuana buds (the part which is usually smoked) contains nowhere near the amount of carcinogens as tobacco leaves do. Furthermore, many methods which people use to ingest marijuana are far safer than a cigarette. Vaporizer, water pipe, etc.. all remove even more impurities. Marijuana has no tar, therefore there is no build up of it in the lungs causing the "black lung." It does however leave resin, but natural proteins are able to break the resin down so there is no permanent damage.

I can go on forever on why marijuana is NOT a health hazard, but that is off topic and I will leave that up to you should you be interested. If you look at any research done on the subject that the government had no part in, this will be easy to see.

My question here on the "Pilot's of America" message board was to see how the FAA will deal with it. As pointed out above in §91.19.b, it says marijuana may be carried as authorized by "any federal OR state statue." Carrying marijuana with a card would be legal under state statue, therefore legal to carry on an aircraft anywhere the person's MMJ license is legal. That's how I read it.

For the states which have decriminalized marijuana, would there be reason to report it to the AME or FAA? Would you be required to check the box next to where it says "Have you ever been convicted for violation of any Federal or State statutes relating to narcotic drugs, marijuana, or depressant or stimulant drugs or substances?" Is a check mark in that box even disqualifying?

 

[Unregistered]

Cannabinoids in the urine are grounding whether medical or not. The side effect profile of the "medication" is unacceptable to the FAA.

Carriage? Don't count on the LEO community to use their heads. After all, John and Martha were cuffed at gunpoint, which they took half an hour to find the VIN number.....

Are cannabinoids (THC) tested for in the urine sample at the AME?

 

[weilke]

Yeah right.

some of the doctor's letters are legit but I know people who have them for:
headaches
menstrual cramps
back pain that only occurs during doctor's visits

and other not-so serious ailments

Some dispensaries will even get the letter for you.

Joe

This site is lacikng a 'tongue firmly planted in cheek' smiley.

 

[EppyGA]

Another person in search of the answer they want.

 

[Unregistered]

Another person in search of the answer they want.

Not true at all. Marijuana is grossly misrepresented and I have questions regarding the legality of it concerning the FAA.

How long does it take to get your medical back after breaking any such state and federal statues regarding marijuana? What are the repercussions now?

 

[weilke]

Many people are grossly misinformed of marijuana. Many Americans only know what the government tells them about it. Research about the plant cannabis, and more importantly the drug the plant creates, THC, will show the truth. Marijuana was first criminalized in the USA in the early 1900s because of racism towards the Mexican's that used it, not because it is a danger to society.

I will agree that many people with MMJ cards do not actually need it for medical reasons. That is far from the point I am trying to make. Our society is accepting of alcohol use. Obviously, it is not safe to drive a vehicle, especially an aircraft while impaired. Just like alcohol, the effects of THC also ware off a few hours after ingestion. The effects of marijuana are not worse than that of being drunk... if anything, alcohol impairs a persons driving ability much more so than marijuana. Obviously you do not want to be flying the skies with a "stoned" pilot just as much as you don't want to be flying the skies with a "drunk" pilot.

Marijuana effects the body much less than does alcohol. It is completely possible to kill yourself by drinking to much alcohol, not to mention the damage alcohol causes to the liver. Marijuana has NEVER been attributed to a death. In fact, THC has been shown to prevent and fight some types of tumors and cancer.

Marijuana is not even comparable to Tobacco. The only thing they have in common is that both are "smoked." Marijuana buds (the part which is usually smoked) contains nowhere near the amount of carcinogens as tobacco leaves do. Furthermore, many methods which people use to ingest marijuana are far safer than a cigarette. Vaporizer, water pipe, etc.. all remove even more impurities. Marijuana has no tar, therefore there is no build up of it in the lungs causing the "black lung." It does however leave resin, but natural proteins are able to break the resin down so there is no permanent damage.

I can go on forever on why marijuana is NOT a health hazard, but that is off topic and I will leave that up to you should you be interested. If you look at any research done on the subject that the government had no part in, this will be easy to see.

I am relieved to see that you are not only a pothead but also delusional.

My question here on the "Pilot's of America" message board was to see how the FAA will deal with it. As pointed out above in §91.19.b, it says marijuana may be carried as authorized by "any federal OR state statue." Carrying marijuana with a card would be legal under state statue, therefore legal to carry on an aircraft anywhere the person's MMJ license is legal. That's how I read it.

Just write a letter to this guy:

David Grizzle
800 Independence Avenue SW
Washington, DC 20591

It may take a couple of months, but I am sure he'll give you a definitive answer.

For the states which have decriminalized marijuana, would there be reason to report it to the AME or FAA?

Sure, because it's an illegal substance in the eyes of the feds.

It's kind of like being gay and married, under the 'defense of marriage act' the feds dont give a hoot what the states do. With pot, the feds dont usually get involved until you have a couple of 100 pounds of the stuff, but that doesn't make it legal in their book to have less of it.

Would you be required to check the box next to where it says "Have you ever been convicted for violation of any Federal or State statutes relating to narcotic drugs, marijuana, or depressant or stimulant drugs or substances?" Is a check mark in that box even disqualifying?

Well, if you haven't been convicted, you dont have to check that box. You DO have to check the box for whatever condition your dealer is providing you with dope for.

Oh, I miss working with druggies. Or maybe not. You meet one, you've met them all.

 

[bbchien]

I posted a list of the 40 or so DQing convictions a ways back. Just remember that the federal airspace is regulated by the FEDS and they haven't changed their position. You can wish wish wish all you want but it doesn't make it so....

Whether right or not is another matter. But one thing for sure, (carriage aside) if they find it in your pilot pee, or hair roots, you're in for a world of legal hurt.

What is it with this particular board? Just recently Beavis and all his relatives arrived here......

 

[Unregistered]

I posted a list of the 40 or so DQing convictions a ways back. Just remember that the federal airspace is regulated by the FEDS and they haven't changed their position. You can wish wish wish all you want but it doesn't make it so....

Whether right or not is another matter. But one thing for sure, (carriage aside) if they find it in your pilot pee, or hair roots, you're in for a world of legal hurt.

What is it with this particular board? Just recently Beavis and all his relatives arrived here......

Thank you.

If I understand correctly, a MMJ carded passenger can carry legal amounts of marijuana on an aircraft as long as they have a card and are in the state where the card is legal and the pilot need not worry about the FAA taking action against themselves provided they do not use the drug.



On a completely separate note, what are your opinions (as a medical professional) about marijuana in comparison to alcohol and tobacco? "Weilke" appears to think I am delusional, what say you?

I'm not trying to be a troll or an idiot. I am serious in these questions. I am not "looking" for any answer. I am merely asking because I find it an interesting topic and it seemed the subject fell into a gray area of legality and wanted to clear my understanding up. I can care less WHAT the law is, I am just curious and the soon to come decriminalization in California made me ask about it here.

I think marijuana will become legal on a federal level within the next 20 years because of the violence the underground market creates alone (i.e. mexican drug cartels). After all, it is only a weed.

 

[bbchien]

Thank you.

If I understand correctly, a MMJ carded passenger can carry legal amounts of marijuana on an aircraft as long as they have a card and are in the state where the card is legal and the pilot need not worry about the FAA taking action against themselves provided they do not use the drug.

Think again. See below. "intent to transport" is quite hard to disprove. Even if you stay in Cal airspace.

On a completely separate note, what are your opinions (as a medical professional) about marijuana in comparison to alcohol and tobacco? "Weilke" appears to think I am delusional, what say you?

Agree with Weilke. But the downsides of narcotics outshadow them all.

I'm not trying to be a troll or an idiot. I am serious in these questions. I am not "looking" for any answer. I am merely asking because I find it an interesting topic and it seemed the subject fell into a gray area of legality and wanted to clear my understanding up. I can care less WHAT the law is, I am just curious and the soon to come decriminalization in California made me ask about it here.

To take pressure off the illegal substance market (where the budget of the entire LEO community can be exceeded by the value of one haul) needs to start with Heroin and Fentanyl.

I think marijuana will become legal on a federal level within the next 20 years because of the violence the underground market creates alone (i.e. mexican drug cartels). After all, it is only a weed.

Even the airspace above California is not regulated solely by Cal, but the Federal statute has PRECEDENCE by constitutional law.

Where do these guys come from?
150Man declaiming how unreasonable FAA's position on depression is - and he can't even define depression.
Not Sure agreeing, then vacating when their positions' weaknesses are pointed out.....
Now I'm talking to an anon.....
Think I'm done.........

 

[skylanerg]

Think I'm done.........

What the hell took you so long Doc?

Whew...Anon just ain't gettin it! Dude, it is totally illegal in the Feds eye - now and for the foreseeable future. Roll a fatty and hang glide your ass off.

 

[Henning]

I think marijuana will become legal on a federal level within the next 20 years because of the violence the underground market creates alone (i.e. mexican drug cartels). After all, it is only a weed.

I would hazard that much more of that violence is attributable to the cocaine trade than weed, and rivaling if not superseding that would be the crystal meth business, and that's largely a US brew industry. Most likely none of it will become legal because the fiefdoms that combat "the war on drugs" and the politicians that protect the anointed Cartels gain too much unregulated cash by maintaining the status quo.

 

[Henning]

Think again. See below. "intent to transport" is quite hard to disprove. Even if you stay in Cal airspace.Agree with Weilke. But the downsides of narcotics outshadow them all. To take pressure off the illegal substance market (where the budget of the entire LEO community can be exceeded by the value of one haul) needs to start with Heroin and Fentanyl.

What's the downside to clean pharma grade narcotics? BTW, you need to check the budget of "The War on Drugs", it's in multiple places of the Billions, no "One load" is there, not even after being cut up, stepped on and distributed at "dose" prices on street corners which is what "reported figures" typically represent.

 

[poadeleted20]

If I understand correctly, a MMJ carded passenger can carry legal amounts of marijuana on an aircraft as long as they have a card and are in the state where the card is legal and the pilot need not worry about the FAA taking action against themselves provided they do not use the drug.

Bruce never said that. What you have is your own personal interpretation of a Federal Air Regulation, and that has no legal weight. The only good way to find out whether your interpretation is correct is to address your question to the FAA Chief Counsel and wait the usual four months it takes for them to answer. In the mean time, remember that the Chief Counsel can provide an interpretation for the first time as part of an enforcement action, so if they catch you carrying marijuana in a plane, they can still burn you for it despite your passenger's MMJ card even if they never before said they interpret the reg that way. The address to which to write is:

Office of the Chief Counsel (AGC-200)
Federal Aviation Administration
800 Independence Avenue SW
Washington, DC 20591

 

[EdFred]

"...use of illegal substance in the last two years" (18n). And no matter what the State of California says, the Federal government still considers marijuana an "illegal substance." So it doesn't even matter if you were ever arrested or convicted or fined or "infracted" or whatever -- if you merely used it, you must report it. One might be tempted to lie and not report such use if it was never made part of any official record, but even if it's just an "infraction," it's on the record for the FAA to find and hose you if you lie about the answer to 18n. While one might try arguing that possession of it doesn't necessarily mean you used it, the FAA's standard of proof is merely "more likely than not" rather than "beyond a reasonable doubt," and lying on the 8500-8 generally gets the FAA's version of the death penalty.

If I use what is considered an illegal drug in the US, while I am in a country that considers the use of that drug legal do I have to check yes?

By the same token, if I consume/possess alcohol in a "dry" county/city/jurisdiction do I have to check yes?

I haven't done the first. I am pretty sure I haven't done the second, but I don't have a list of all the dry jurisdictions in the country.

 

[steingar]

Oh what the heck, I'll feed the troll. THC, the active neurotropic ingredient of marijuana, is a proven neurotoxic agent that causes neuronal cell death and memory loss. My own anecdotal experiences suggest long term use can turn smart people into dumb people. I'm a long way from the only one saying it.

The guys who decide what's what at the FAA make people like Ron and Bruce look like Hunter S. Thompson. They will never allow marijuana, or anything containing psychoactive levels of tetrahydrocannabinol anywhere near an airplane except in the hands of Federal agents intent on its destruction. They don't care about state cards or state law, they own the airspace. The OP has a choice. The ganja, or the aircraft. Cannot be done at the same time, those two. At least not in the eyes of the FAA.

 

[murphey]

Yes, you are required to report it. There's that great "catch-all" under medical (#18?) that asks for all prescribed medications. If a physician has prescribed either MMJ or THC in another form, you are requred not only to report it but also the quantity & frequency of use.

Don't report it? You've just lied on a Federal document.

 

[RMCN172RG]

If I use what is considered an illegal drug in the US, while I am in a country that considers the use of that drug legal do I have to check yes?

Does the question have the wording while in the US?

 

[murphey]

Not true at all. Marijuana is grossly misrepresented and I have questions regarding the legality of it concerning the FAA.

How long does it take to get your medical back after breaking any such state and federal statues regarding marijuana? What are the repercussions now?

No one on this board (unless there's an aviation lawyer handy) can provide definitive answer to that question.

As suggested before, contact the FAA Legal Counsel office.

Now, go away.

 

[EdFred]

Does the question have the wording while in the US?

I don't see how that changes my question.

 

[RMCN172RG]

I don't see how that changes my question.

The FAA question does not specify only while you're in the US, therefore anywhere on the planet, or in the universe, in the time period is what they want to know.

 

[EdFred]

The FAA question does not specify only while you're in the US, therefore anywhere on the planet, or in the universe, in the time period is what they want to know.

But if it's not controlled/illegal where you currently are at, then is it by definition controlled/illegal?

 

[Unregistered]

Oh what the heck, I'll feed the troll. THC, the active neurotropic ingredient of marijuana, is a proven neurotoxic agent that causes neuronal cell death and memory loss. My own anecdotal experiences suggest long term use can turn smart people into dumb people. I'm a long way from the only one saying it.

The guys who decide what's what at the FAA make people like Ron and Bruce look like Hunter S. Thompson. They will never allow marijuana, or anything containing psychoactive levels of tetrahydrocannabinol anywhere near an airplane except in the hands of Federal agents intent on its destruction. They don't care about state cards or state law, they own the airspace. The OP has a choice. The ganja, or the aircraft. Cannot be done at the same time, those two. At least not in the eyes of the FAA.

I agree that marijuana is not something a pilot should be using while he/she intends to fly an aircraft. I am not arguing that. I am not arguing weather or not marijuana is healthy or not... I already formed my opinion on that and believe alcohol and tobacco are both worse than marijuana. This opinion is based on facts, and facts that are readily available from internet researched from non-biased sources. People like you think that marijuana kills brain cells. That is false. The only study in which it was shown to kill brain cells was when a monkey was "suffocated" by smoking something like the equivalent of 60 joints simultaneously.

Why is it that once the effects of alcohol ware off after 8 hours and BAC below .04 it is legal to fly an aircraft, but the same is not true for marijuana? I know the reason is because it is simply illegal in the feds eyes.

Many experts in the field claim marijuana will be legalized federally within 20 years. I am confused as to why many others on this board are extremely against the use of marijuana. When marijuana is legalized federally, would you guys not think it would be okay to use it, even if you are a pilot, as long as you are not under the influence of it WHILE under the responsibilities of a pilot? If possible, please cite reputable sources in your response as to why you have the opinion you do.

 

[Unregistered]

And please keep in mind this is in comparison to ALCOHOL, which is already legal in the FAA's eye.