Malaysian Airliner missing?

None of that makes any sense, Tim, when I read it on Tapatalk. You are in the middle of page 19 for me.

Anyway, are you just trying to show that you can't count any better than the Malsysians who were figuring out how many hours had elapsed before contact was lost with the 777?
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
What does 561 have to do with anything? We were on page 23 eleven posts ago.
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My preferences are set on 20 posts per page, you must be on 25.

I'm now on page 29 here. You're on page 23?

I think we know where flight 370 is. Somewhere between 23 and 29. :)
 
Thanks Tim, I got that one....

I think the experts at The Onion have this about right.

So, a month from now, when we're no farther along in figuring this out than we are now...who makes the call to say "we give up", and let it be a mystery for the generations?
 
I'm only on page 15
(40 posts per page)

But why the need for a new page?
 
wsuffa said:
So I will pose the moral dilemma that I posed to someone else:

Suppose the US IC/Security Officials knew what happened to the plane and where it is. And suppose that (per the suggestion in the article) that it's intact and may be used for "another purpose".

Do the folks in the know release the information? Or do they keep it highly classified so as not to disclose the techniques and capabilities that the US possesses to identify and track such things? Do they keep it secret to spy on the plans that the evildoers are plotting & potentially take covert action (or publicized action) to stop a threat (which might kill far more innocent people)?

Consider that the likelihood is very low that the passengers are alive because if they were hostages there would be a ransom demand by now. Consider the method by which Bin Laden was captured. Consider the international political repercussions of the various alternatives given the number of Chinese citizens on the plane.

It is quite a set of moral questions to answer.
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Bill,

What you are saying makes sense. Not letting the sheep know the fox may be at the gate to the ranch prevents them from panicking.
 
BBC, on the four-more-hours angle:

In an echo of claims made in the Wall Street Journal earlier on Thursday that the plane transmitted engine data for hours after the plane disappeared, US officials briefed on the search told Associated Press that Boeing systems on the plane also sent signals to a satellite for four hours after the aircraft went missing.

The Boeing 777-200 was not transmitting data to the satellite, but was instead sending out a signal to establish contact, said the official, who was not named....

... Boeing offers a satellite service that can receive a stream of data during flight on how the aircraft is functioning. Malaysia Airlines did not subscribe to that service, but the plane was still automatically sending pings to the satellite, the official said.
 
wsuffa said:
That's a pretty conclusive statement, Jesse. I can think of a number of ways it might be done. Some require more intelligence than others. But there are plausible ways to achieve the desired result (not going to put them here for the obvious reason).

Beyond that, they don't even need to get the plane inside the US to have a substantial impact. Hit a major US asset outside the US, or destroy some commodity we use heavily. Heck, their threats have put us in a panic before.... no action needed.

Panic would ensue with almost any action on their part. There would be economic repercussions and most likely additional restrictions on freedoms.

With all respect to the passenger families, I hope the plane is destroyed.
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I realize they can cause great impact without getting it to the United States. Of course it's certainly possible for them to fly it here without us noticing, and there are means that might make it more difficult to notice, but I seriously doubt tehy'd take the risk of being shot down with no real result which is the most likely result if they were to attempt to sneak a 777 across an ocean into the united states at this point.
 
Total newb here, so my apologies if this is a foolish question...

I've only read about 8 of the previous pages but didn't see much talk about rapid decompression scenarios. I am surprised by this, isn't this a possibility?

Can't an explosion / fire / outage of the electrical system (and, thus, possibly pressurization system) cause a rapid decompression scenario?

The reasons I would think this would be a high possibility:
* Much has been noted to indicate the plane stopped transmitting via it's normal transponder. A lot of attention has gone to someone switching it off. BUT, at the same time, the automatic communications system that has been discovered to have still been transmitting for 4 hours supposedly lacked any actual DATA. I am assuming, being a computer guy, that these systems are independent of each other. So if the satellite based reporting system had internal power and could still ping home, but had nothing to report because the navigational equipment was trashed, isn't that a likely scenario here?

* Turning back in the event of a decompression event seems a likely possibility, no?

* It seems like the pilots might have been trying to descend? They dropped from 35k to 29.5k? But if the plane really wasn't functioning maybe they had trouble controlling the plane?

The above has been discussed before but I haven't seen anyone discredit it at all. I would like to see someone discredit it :) as it would make the terrorist stuff more plausible in my head. But mechanical malfunction strikes me as much more likely... If it was a terrorist attack, I would assume that 2 hours into the diverted flight they would have figured out they didn't know how to fly the thing? I mean where could they possibly have been going if heading through the Indian Ocean?
 
I think we know all we're going to know until someone finds some plane bits floating somewhere.
 
pyite said:
Total newb here, so my apologies if this is a foolish question...

I've only read about 8 of the previous pages but didn't see much talk about rapid decompression scenarios. I am surprised by this, isn't this a possibility?

Can't an explosion / fire / outage of the electrical system (and, thus, possibly pressurization system) cause a rapid decompression scenario?

The reasons I would think this would be a high possibility:
* Much has been noted to indicate the plane stopped transmitting via it's normal transponder. A lot of attention has gone to someone switching it off. BUT, at the same time, the automatic communications system that has been discovered to have still been transmitting for 4 hours supposedly lacked any actual DATA. I am assuming, being a computer guy, that these systems are independent of each other. So if the satellite based reporting system had internal power and could still ping home, but had nothing to report because the navigational equipment was trashed, isn't that a likely scenario here?

* Turning back in the event of a decompression event seems a likely possibility, no?

* It seems like the pilots might have been trying to descend? They dropped from 35k to 29.5k? But if the plane really wasn't functioning maybe they had trouble controlling the plane?

The above has been discussed before but I haven't seen anyone discredit it at all. I would like to see someone discredit it :) as it would make the terrorist stuff more plausible in my head. But mechanical malfunction strikes me as much more likely... If it was a terrorist attack, I would assume that 2 hours into the diverted flight they would have figured out they didn't know how to fly the thing? I mean where could they possibly have been going if heading through the Indian Ocean?
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I think the issue most struggle with is that if the aircraft had a major failure which took out the electrical system and, ultimately, the aircrew, we'd have expected a crash in the general vicinity. Despite a week of searching, there is no evidence of a crash, causing the initial "likely" scenario to be discounted.
 
kyleb said:
I think the issue most struggle with is that if the aircraft had a major failure which took out the electrical system and, ultimately, the aircrew, we'd have expected a crash in the general vicinity. Despite a week of searching, there is no evidence of a crash, causing the initial "likely" scenario to be discounted.
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But in a scenario where the cockpit is effectively damaged, don't the engines keep churning away and basic navigations continue operating?
 
jesse said:
I realize they can cause great impact without getting it to the United States. Of course it's certainly possible for them to fly it here without us noticing, and there are means that might make it more difficult to notice, but I seriously doubt tehy'd take the risk of being shot down with no real result which is the most likely result if they were to attempt to sneak a 777 across an ocean into the united states at this point.
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The only way to tell if an incoming aircraft is a 777 would be a visual interception (for all practical purposes). Otherwise, it's just a blip on the radar, most all of which are legitimate.

A shoot down prior to successful attack would be very unlikely I would think.
 
pyite said:
But in a scenario where the cockpit is effectively damaged, don't the engines keep churning away and basic navigations continue operating?
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Depends on the damage. Most of the wiring routes through the cockpit, so if "the event" took out the transponder and the crew, the autopilot (or Flight Management System) and comm gear are potential casualties too. I have no idea what happens to the engines if the throttles are damaged.
 
My WAG was a lightning strike took out most or all of the avionics including the transponder/radios and they went off course trying to find their way to a safe landing spot.
 
dans2992 said:
The only way to tell if an incoming aircraft is a 777 would be a visual interception (for all practical purposes). Otherwise, it's just a blip on the radar, most all of which are legitimate.

A shoot down prior to successful attack would be very unlikely I would think.
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There is a 777 missing right now that might be in the hands of terrorists. I assure you there aren't blips crossing the ocean headed towards major U.S cities in the flight levels that won't be intercepted if they are not in contact and legit. When it does get intercepted, which it would, they wouldn't hesitate to shoot it down.

Oceans are big. They take time to cross in a 777 and you aren't going to be doing that below radar coverage where you'd have no range.
 
cowman said:
My WAG was a lightning strike took out most or all of the avionics including the transponder/radios and they went off course trying to find their way to a safe landing spot.
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WAY off course......:rolleyes:
 
pyite said:
Total newb here, so my apologies if this is a foolish question...

I've only read about 8 of the previous pages but didn't see much talk about rapid decompression scenarios. I am surprised by this, isn't this a possibility?

Can't an explosion / fire / outage of the electrical system (and, thus, possibly pressurization system) cause a rapid decompression scenario?

The reasons I would think this would be a high possibility:
* Much has been noted to indicate the plane stopped transmitting via it's normal transponder. A lot of attention has gone to someone switching it off. BUT, at the same time, the automatic communications system that has been discovered to have still been transmitting for 4 hours supposedly lacked any actual DATA. I am assuming, being a computer guy, that these systems are independent of each other. So if the satellite based reporting system had internal power and could still ping home, but had nothing to report because the navigational equipment was trashed, isn't that a likely scenario here?

* Turning back in the event of a decompression event seems a likely possibility, no?

* It seems like the pilots might have been trying to descend? They dropped from 35k to 29.5k? But if the plane really wasn't functioning maybe they had trouble controlling the plane?

The above has been discussed before but I haven't seen anyone discredit it at all. I would like to see someone discredit it :) as it would make the terrorist stuff more plausible in my head. But mechanical malfunction strikes me as much more likely... If it was a terrorist attack, I would assume that 2 hours into the diverted flight they would have figured out they didn't know how to fly the thing? I mean where could they possibly have been going if heading through the Indian Ocean?
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There is a Rueters article stating that no data was transmitted because the carrier did not subscribe to the Sat service. Otherwise the data would have contained lat/long info as well. Hind site on this one!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/13/malaysia-airlines-data-idUSL2N0MA18V20140313

(Reuters) - Communications satellites picked up faint electronic pulses from Malaysian Airlines Flight 370 after it went missing on Saturday, but the signals gave no indication about where the stray jet was heading nor its technical condition, a source close to the investigation said on Thursday.
The "pings" equated to an indication that the aircraft's maintenance troubleshooting systems were ready to communicate with satellites if needed, but no links were opened because Malaysia Airlines and others had not subscribed to the full troubleshooting service, the source said.
 
kyleb said:
Depends on the damage. Most of the wiring routes through the cockpit, so if "the event" took out the transponder and the crew, the autopilot (or Flight Management System) and comm gear are potential casualties too. I have no idea what happens to the engines if the throttles are damaged.
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So, and again, I know nothing, just trying to learn...

It sounds like this theory is POSSIBLE at least? If it is possible, why isn't it being discussed much at all in the media? It seems like 90% of what I'm hearing is terrorist-related, maybe that's just due to sensationalism? Or are there really just too many red flags for this to be any sort of likely mechanical aviation accident?
 
pyite said:
So, and again, I know nothing, just trying to learn...

It sounds like this theory is POSSIBLE at least? If it is possible, why isn't it being discussed much at all in the media? It seems like 90% of what I'm hearing is terrorist-related, maybe that's just due to sensationalism? Or are there really just too many red flags for this to be any sort of likely mechanical aviation accident?
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The media has no clue. They just mumble crap on TV that will sell to the average joe that also has no clue. No insight to be gained by watching the **** show.
 
Tex_Mike said:
......but no links were opened because Malaysia Airlines and others had not subscribed to the full troubleshooting service, the source said.
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I have 5 bucks the feds will REQUIRE all airlines to subscribe to that service.... And it will be required ASAP.... Like , next week..:yes:
 
cowman said:
My WAG was a lightning strike took out most or all of the avionics including the transponder/radios and they went off course trying to find their way to a safe landing spot.
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There was apparently absolutely no weather activity in the area.
Also I think with the basic whiskey compass the could have found their way back.
 
jesse said:
I realize they can cause great impact without getting it to the United States. Of course it's certainly possible for them to fly it here without us noticing, and there are means that might make it more difficult to notice, but I seriously doubt tehy'd take the risk of being shot down with no real result which is the most likely result if they were to attempt to sneak a 777 across an ocean into the united states at this point.
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Unless they flew someplace close, say Cuba. Refueled, then flew below radar coverage and hit DC???
 
us AAirways said:
Unless they flew someplace close, say Cuba. Refueled, then flew below radar coverage and hit DC???
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So they're just going to go rolling into Cuba with a 777 with nobody noticing, refuel, and then fly it on the deck with nobody noticing all the way to DC? They'd have a better chance of causing damage in DC with a slingshot.
 
us AAirways said:
Unless they flew someplace close, say Cuba. Refueled, then flew below radar coverage and hit DC???
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Why not just buy or steal a GII and do it that way? It would draw far less attention than this 777 is getting.
 
kyleb said:
Why not just buy or steal a GII and do it that way? It would draw far less attention than this 777 is getting.
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GII does less damage when it hits something. If you're trying to bring down a skyscraper, it will take a lot of Jet A.
 
jesse said:
There is a 777 missing right now that might be in the hands of terrorists. I assure you there aren't blips crossing the ocean headed towards major U.S cities in the flight levels that won't be intercepted if they are not in contact and legit. When it does get intercepted, which it would, they wouldn't hesitate to shoot it down.



Oceans are big. They take time to cross in a 777 and you aren't going to be doing that below radar coverage where you'd have no range.
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Yes, I am assuming they would file a flight plan and pretend to be a Citation/Gulfstream, etc. Once in the general area of their target, it's too late.
 
I'm all out of guesses.

I'll throw it out there ...

interspacial time distortion ... ... :idea:

images
 
I'd wager it's at the bottom of the ocean, but the conspiracy theories are certainly interesting...
 
jesse said:
When it does get intercepted, which it would, they wouldn't hesitate to shoot it down.
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Yes they would if they new there was positively, for a fact, nearly 300 foreign nationals on board the plane. Particularly if the people in control of the airplane claim to be something like Somali pirates or something, looking for money or political favor. The hope of saving innocent civilians would cause us to hesitate. It's who we are and what we do.
 
300 foreign _Chinese_ nationals would make us hesitate longer than 300 US citizens, I would think.

Nobody wants to pick a fight with China.
 
Norman said:
Well, my WAG is the airplane is on one of many Iranian air bases in a hangar. No one claiming responsibility leads me to think the plane may later be used in a terror operation against ??? :dunno:

A quick paint job, loaded up with a dirty bomb (Iran has that capability I believe), and it's off to do it's dirty work.

Admittedly pure speculation on my part. :yes:
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If I was Israel, I'd be even more on edge than normal with the neighbors down the street.
 
olasek said:
There was apparently absolutely no weather activity in the area.
Also I think with the basic whiskey compass the could have found their way back.
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Right, I read a newsutainment article comparing this to the Air France 447 crash and then watched a video on it so now I have that series of facts stuck in my head.



It's obviously Aliens.
 
olasek said:
There was apparently absolutely no weather activity in the area.
Also I think with the basic whiskey compass the could have found their way back.
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I would think that, too. However, I would have thought a 777 crew with tens of thousands of combined hours could land the plane on a CAVU day without the aid of the autopilot/automation -- yet San Francisco proved that wrong as well.
 
txflyer said:
I'm all out of guesses.

I'll throw it out there ...

interspacial time distortion ... ... :idea:
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My guess remains - crashed in ocean (for whatever reason) and sank.

What puzzles me is why so many people are convinced there is no way that could possibly happen.
 
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