Make these sellers sell!

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
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20,772
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west Texas
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Display name:
Dave Taylor
Tell me how to make a seller actually sell their airplane.
Or,..... can we make a law that says advertised airplanes have to be sold within a reasonable length of time?
I see airplanes that I know have been on the market for 3-5 years!

That's not 'for sale'.
That's showing your airplane off in print and digital media to the public, with a fictional number beside it!

I talked to a broker today about an airplane that's been on the market for over a year with no movement in the advertised price. (I have seen similar models go recently for $50-100K less.) I asked the broker if the buyer is firm. He said the seller has $xxxK dollars tied up in it so he is not budging on price.
This airplane has flown less than 10 hrs in the last 2 years.

Enjoy your hangar queen. At some point the lack of use will catch up with you and when you try to sell it, prepare to take a further large hit on price.

The airplanes for sale on places that do not charge to advertise are classic gathering grounds for such beauties. At least TAP charges, making serious sellers a bit more motivated.
 
Guessing many of them will become part of the estate.
 
I bought an airplane from an eighty-something-year-old guy. His wife wanted him to quit flying, but he didn’t want to. He finally took my deposit check and said, “If anything happens to my wife between now and the time we close the deal, I’m keeping the airplane,”

He wasn’t smiling.
 
"Honey, I asked you to sell that airplane." "I'm trying. See here are the ads. But, no one is calling about them."
 
Cow-orker got married two years ago. Year and a half ago he and his wife bought a new house, and she put her old one on the market. 1.5 years later it’s still on the market, she won’t budge on her price. She’s about $70k above comparables, but she wants what she wants. So, they carry two house notes.

Nuts if you ask me...
 
SkyDog58 said:
It’s his plane. It’s his decision. Not much anyone else can or should do.
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Exactly. You can’t force them to sell.

Sometimes people list because of spouse pressure. Sometimes it’s a unique/niche airplane and it takes a while for the right buyer to come along. And other times people have an over-inflated opinion of the value and they hold out, but play their cards wrong.

Not all airplanes languish for the same reason.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Sometimes it’s a unique/niche airplane and it takes a while for the right buyer to come along.
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Right, or a plane that takes a special kind of pilot; same thing really, but sometimes it takes the right pilot to come along. (I'm thinking of a Grumman America AA1) In the meantime, if it is still being flown occasionally . . .
 
I once looked at a Tomahawk at Renton, that had not flown in 15 years. The owner wanted 45k for it.
The estate sold it for 10k, and some dummy bought it.
 
Made an offer on a plane once,and the broker wouldn’t even present the offer.So the seller wasn’t aware. The seller went out and advertised the airplane on his own, he ended up selling for less than my offer. So if you don’t talk to the owner personally,you’ll never understand what’s going on.
 
Tom-D said:
I once looked at a Tomahawk at Renton, that had not flown in 15 years. The owner wanted 45k for it.
The estate sold it for 10k, and some dummy bought it.
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Renton seems like an awfully expensive place to leave a trainer stored for 15 years...
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Enjoy your hangar queen. At some point the lack of use will catch up with you and when you try to sell it, prepare to take a further large hit on price.
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Maybe they're wrongly thinking the market will eventually come to them.
 
paflyer said:
What makes you think the rent was being paid?
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Possible, but not probable.
Renton is a crowded, single runway airport.
Made more crowded by the fact Boeing produces and launches 737s out of there at the rate of more than 40 a month.
 
GRG55 said:
Possible, but not probable.
Renton is a crowded, single runway airport.
Made more crowded by the fact Boeing produces and launches 737s out of there at the rate of more than 40 a month.
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There is a lot of GA happening there too.
paflyer said:
What makes you think the rent was being paid?
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I had no concern with that.
 
Lots of sellers are somewhat less than rational about the selling price of their valuables.
 
If you want them to sell? Offer them full price. If the plane isn’t worth that expense to you? Move on.

The end.
 
Tom-D said:
I once looked at a Tomahawk at Renton, that had not flown in 15 years. The owner wanted 45k for it.
The estate sold it for 10k, and some dummy bought it.
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Holy cow! 45K for a Tomahawk, that's hilarious! Even if it hadn't been flown in 15 years. Probably could find 2 decent C150/152s for that.
 
I suspect part of the rationale is a bit like Schroedingers cat: until you sell, you have not taken a loss.
 
There was a psychology study done where one group of participants were shown a mug and asked how much they estimated they'd pay for it. Most valued it at ~$5.

The other group of participants were given the same mug and asked how much they'd sell it for. This group said they'd sell it for $12.

We tend to over value items we own and undervalue items we don't own.
 
The real problem is that the worth of an aircraft doesn't depend on how much you spent keeping it airworthy. Just because you have an extensive annual or maintained it with an open checkbook, doesn't necessarily increase the value of the aircraft.
 
jonnyjetprop said:
The real problem is that the worth of an aircraft doesn't depend on how much you spent keeping it airworthy. Just because you have an extensive annual or maintained it with an open checkbook, doesn't necessarily increase the value of the aircraft.
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Are you saying a well maintained aircraft is worth the same as any other..

don't think so.
 
Tom-D said:
Are you saying a well maintained aircraft is worth the same as any other..

don't think so.
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I think if there isn't a big difference in the condition, then yes, pretty much a cream puff commands only a little bit more than just a decently maintained airplane. An owner gave me a lecture on the value of his admittedly very pretty Tri-Pacer quite a few years ago - it had very nice kelly green and cream-colored paint, fabric in good condition, was pristine firewall forward with a mid-low time engine, and the interior was a 7-8. Avionics were kinda old, but you could tell he took very good care of it.

He was basing his selling price on how much he'd spent maintaining it, but paying 1/2 again the market value for a Tr-Pacer wasn't something I'd do. Apparently no one else would either. I think the estate sold it eventually.
 
Hey sellers, sell those airplanes now..!!!

(with apologies to Pink Floyd)
 
Tom,

Absolutely not. What I have seen are folks that want every dime they put into the aircraft back. You and I know that well maintained aircraft will sell fast and at a better price than a poorly maintained, barely flown plane.

Tom-D said:
Are you saying a well maintained aircraft is worth the same as any other..

don't think so.
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If you are really serious about making a seller sell then you can use the Corleone method.


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mscard88 said:
Holy cow! 45K for a Tomahawk, that's hilarious! Even if it hadn't been flown in 15 years. Probably could find 2 decent C150/152s for that.
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Surprisingly 152s' are commanding some top dollars these days.. High time air frames with mid time engines are getting north of $30K

Here is one for $60K https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/22266055/1978-cessna-152
And another for $47K https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc...&model=152&listing_id=2289009&s-type=aircraft

Looked at Tomahawk a few years back... the owner bought it then proceeded to to pimp it out... paint, avionics, interior, windows..... everything but the engine. He wanted $30K for it.. When I looked at it; the engine had 2300 plus hours and low compression.. pretty nice plane though... I made cold hard cashiers check on the barrel-head as is where is offer knowing that I would be shipping some steel back to Williamport, PA for a bit.. The owner stood firm and I walked... Fast forward a few years and I see the plane again with a new owner and a rebuilt engine... new owner told me he had $30K into it. :mad2:
 
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Ventucky Red said:
Surprisingly 152s' are commanding some top dollars these days.. High time air frames with mid time engines are getting north of $30K

Here is one for $60K https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/22266055/1978-cessna-152
And another for $47K https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc...&model=152&listing_id=2289009&s-type=aircraft

...
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The trainers seem to command a premium. I suppose low(ish) time airframes in good condition are becoming harder to find. Other than a 172, what is anybody producing today that is as good and economical a trainer as a 150/152?

But at the same time "asking North of $30K" is not the same as actually getting north of $30K. As you noted with your Tomahawk example an extraordinary number of alleged "sellers" see no downside to asking an above market premium. Perhaps they think some mullet will come along, fall in love with their airplane, and pay it?
 
Hmm - your not making a lot of sense in some cases. I guess: it depends.

The A35 I have now was on the market for well over a year (maybe longer). The ad was not great and had some bad items in it (engine time was inflated, etc.) I'm sure a lot of people looked at it and immediately clicked on the next ad as $40K for a 1949 A35 isn't going to sell to just anyone -especially a polished aircraft.

BUT - there was someone out there that knew a little about the hard nosed owner and the the level of care the aircraft had received. That was one easy $40K check to write.

I guess someone needs to make some of you wannabe buyers buy!!
 
brian] said:
Hmm - your not making a lot of sense in some cases. I guess: it depends.

The A35 I have now was on the market for well over a year (maybe longer). The ad was not great and had some bad items in it (engine time was inflated, etc.) I'm sure a lot of people looked at it and immediately clicked on the next ad as $40K for a 1949 A35 isn't going to sell to just anyone -especially a polished aircraft.

BUT - there was someone out there that knew a little about the hard nosed owner and the the level of care the aircraft had received. That was one easy $40K check to write.

I guess someone needs to make some of you wannabe buyers buy!!
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What you brought was a unique and comparatively rare example. Overpriced Tomahawks and 152s are not...
 
GRG55 said:
What you brought was a unique and comparatively rare example. Overpriced Tomahawks and 152s are not...
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I don't disagree. But "overpriced" is a bit in the eye of the beholder. $40K for a C152 with a modest panel would be overpriced to me. BUT if you are looking for a C152 with a modest panel, you have to decide whether you want the C152 more than the $40K. If not, move on. Life is too short to try to find the "best possible deal" out there. Guess I'm getting old enough to look it that way ....
 
Yep, you've got to own and fly the plane three years before you know whether you've got a good deal.
 
brian] said:
I don't disagree. But "overpriced" is a bit in the eye of the beholder
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I agree with you on this point as one man's junk is another man's treasure.

But I also believe you should really know what the market is if you really do want to sell your plane, car, boat, house, wife, kids.... sorry the dog and cat are not for sale :D. In my Tomahawk example above I had a Aircraft Bluebook evaluation done (had a friend that was in the brokerage biz at the time) and showed the owner the report with both his engine time and an overhauled 100 hour engine... With the new engine, I would have had no problem handing over the $30K.... They way I saw it in this case if they let the engine go in favor of looks, what other maintenance items have they let slip?
 
GRG55 said:
But at the same time "asking North of $30K" is not the same as actually getting north.... Perhaps they think some mullet will come along, fall in love with their airplane, and pay it?
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Friend of mine in Northern CA sold his 152 about a year ago... It was on the market for about a week... after some back and forth he got the price he wanted... not the asking like you said but it was a couple of degrees north of $30K. The guy that bought it was buying them, crating them up, and shipping to China and Africa...
 
Ventucky Red said:
The guy that bought it was buying them, crating them up, and shipping to China and Africa...
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A lot of older airplanes are flying the coop. Rentals I’d flown in the ‘80s and ‘90s are now in Colombia, Panama, Brazil, Argentina, Russia, Australia, NZ and Japan, as well as Canada and Mexico.
 
My Warrior II got sold to some self-important PITA broker/Netjets pilot in the North Tampa area, who proceeded immediately turn around and sell it off to Thailand. '83 model, real clean airframe, dog out tired engine (circa 2200SMOH when I decided to upgrade missions). King stack radios. I ripped out the KLN 89B as a condition of sale. Ebayed that thing to some guy who was going to install it on a spam can bound for Africa (them christian proselytizing missions or some such). All in all, everything ended up abroad, unless they scrapped the engine.
 
Pilawt said:
A lot of older airplanes are flying the coop. Rentals I’d flown in the ‘80s and ‘90s are now in Colombia, Panama, Brazil, Argentina, Russia, Australia, NZ and Japan, as well as Canada and Mexico.
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The sweetest flying 206 I ever flew went to Colombia. Things that make ya go hmmmmmm.........
 
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