Make Money With A Single Engine Aircraft

J

James Deringer

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Mar 27, 2015
Messages
3
Location
Minneapolis
Display Name
Display name:
James D
A fellow pilot and I were discussing ways to make money off his single engine aircraft which spends most of its time sitting in a hanger.

I'd like to hear what you guys think. Right now what's the best way to make money off of a rarely used plane, is there a company that deals with rentals to other people, like Airbnb for planes?
 
Single engine airplane...

PC12

P-51

A185 Amphib

DC-2

F-16

C172

????
 
I figured the best option was something like that. I'm really hoping there's something out there (or will be something) that vets private pilots to make sure they are reliable and then connects them with local planes that are just sitting around at an airport. I see soooo many nice planes almost never in use!

I'm imagining something like a nationwide plane sharing club. Planes would have less downtime and they would be newer which should reduce the cost of flying a bit. Something like that might help reduce the price of rentals which seems to be a big problem why there aren't more pilots in the sky.

I really want to get up in the air but I can't convince myself that $150 per hour to fly is a good idea at this point in my life.
Just a thought.
 
Any time you rent out the airplane, it's now a commercial enterprise. Insurance can easily triple or even quadruple. Plus, inspection is no longer annual but every 100 hours.

Talk to a lawyer who specializes in liability, aviation and contracts.
 
James Deringer said:
Cessna 182, he has another one so this one just sits around
Click to expand...

182?

I'll make money with that mofo

Gut it, jump door, 4 tandem rigs, there are options for that thing if youre looking.
 
James Deringer said:
I figured the best option was something like that. I'm really hoping there's something out there (or will be something) that vets private pilots to make sure they are reliable and then connects them with local planes that are just sitting around at an airport. I see soooo many nice planes almost never in use!
Click to expand...

Open Airplane has a private owner option now, IIRC
 
murphey said:
Any time you rent out the airplane, it's now a commercial enterprise. Insurance can easily triple or even quadruple. Plus, inspection is no longer annual but every 100 hours.

Talk to a lawyer who specializes in liability, aviation and contracts.
Click to expand...


Rental does not require 100 hr inspections. Instruction does, but not rental.
 
James Deringer said:
I'm really hoping there's something out there (or will be something) that vets private pilots to make sure they are reliable and then connects them with local planes that are just sitting around at an airport. I see soooo many nice planes almost never in use!



I
Click to expand...


From the renters perspective, I'd also want the planes vetted. There's a lot of neglected crap sitting around on the ramp....
 
James Deringer said:
I'm imagining something like a nationwide plane sharing club.
Click to expand...

Henning supports your idea and has made several comments along these lines.

(If he could just get back to 50k i think more would take him seriously!!):yes:
 
if you want to end up with a beaten up airframe and engine go do a favor to a flight school/fbo and get a leaseback. On the other hand if you are not flying your airplane enough you should think of selling the whole thing or partner up with other pilots.

I personally have the view that if i am going to provide capital equipment and absorb all the financial risk to a flightschool I want a return on my money not just free tie downs, maintenance and a crapped out airplane at the end of the term.
 
James Deringer said:
I'm imagining something like a nationwide plane sharing club.
Click to expand...
That's been attempted before, starting with Lease-A-Plane back around 1970, but nobody's ever done really well with it. There's an outfit called Open Airplane which recently tried to start up such an operation by getting FBO's to cooperate, so anyone checked out at one FBO could rent the same type airplane at any other FBO without further ado. Haven't heard much about them since, but they were working only with FBO/flight schools, not individual owners.

Edit: I see Open Airplane is now going out to individual owners. See http://owners.openairplane.com/ for details.

The biggest barrier to such an operation for individual owners would be the cost of the necessary Limited Commercial insurance policy, necessary to rent out your plane, which is a lot more expensive than the standard Pleasure/Business policy most of us private owners carry. FBO's and flight schools already carry such policies, so they're already covered for such rental operations. Open Airplane seems to have some sort of special insurance deal to cover this, but you'd have to talk to them to find out more. And as suggested above, you'd really want to talk to an aviation attorney and a tax professional about all the legal and business issues arising from renting your plane out like that.
 
Last edited:
murphey said:
Any time you rent out the airplane, it's now a commercial enterprise. Insurance can easily triple or even quadruple. Plus, inspection is no longer annual but every 100 hours.
Click to expand...
Concur on the insurance, but 100-hour inspections are not required for rental planes unless flight training is also provided along with the plane. See 91.409 for details.
 
I think me and the skywagon will take a rain check.

Don't want nobody's dog throwing up in my baby ... :nonod::nono:
 
James Deringer said:
A fellow pilot and I were discussing ways to make money off his single engine aircraft which spends most of its time sitting in a hanger.

I'd like to hear what you guys think. Right now what's the best way to make money off of a rarely used plane, is there a company that deals with rentals to other people, like Airbnb for planes?
Click to expand...

Cherokee 6 can rake cash in the "Mile High Club" rides. With club seating and the back seats out, you can make a great stacked foam play pit and have them in belted seats for T/O and landing.


It's really hard to make money with rental without putting in a lot of work.

Best way for him to recoup some money and keep the plane flying enough to keep the bills down, is to sell some shares. Either that or get his CFI and start instructing in it.
 
txflyer said:
I think me and the skywagon will take a rain check.

Don't want nobody's dog throwing up in my baby ... :nonod::nono:
Click to expand...

I took a dog with me to OSH from Atlanta when I bellied in. When we were holding over Green Lake getting slammed by severe turbulence (instant 25' changes in altitude that leave you with 80° of bank and 30° of pitch, in a 310, I consider severe), the dog puking is what finally pushed me to get the heck out of there.:lol:
 
James Deringer said:
A fellow pilot and I were discussing ways to make money off his single engine aircraft which spends most of its time sitting in a hanger.

I'd like to hear what you guys think. Right now what's the best way to make money off of a rarely used plane, is there a company that deals with rentals to other people, like Airbnb for planes?
Click to expand...

You do realize that most of the part 135 air taxi operators in Alaska are single engine aircraft ?

Usage can be increased by renting the aircraft your self, no need for getting a flight school involved.
 
Smuggle cigarettes/whiskey to/from Canada.:wink2: :nono:
 
A leaseback to a flight school/rental operation just to soak up idle hours is NOT going to be profitable (or even probably a net gain over just letting the plane sit). I've been on both sides (lessor and lessee) of the leaseback. This sort of thing is actually bad for both sides. The school hates it because the owner wants priority. The owner hates it as the school only schedules his plane as a last resort and the amount of money doesn't cover the increased inspections, triple insurance, etc...

If you want to lease for a business, lease for a business. Otherwise it's fraught with perils.
 
flyingron said:
A leaseback to a flight school/rental operation just to soak up idle hours is NOT going to be profitable (or even probably a net gain over just letting the plane sit). I've been on both sides (lessor and lessee) of the leaseback. This sort of thing is actually bad for both sides. The school hates it because the owner wants priority. The owner hates it as the school only schedules his plane as a last resort and the amount of money doesn't cover the increased inspections, triple insurance, etc...

If you want to lease for a business, lease for a business. Otherwise it's fraught with perils.
Click to expand...

Yep, this is a huge issue with yachts as well, the brokers tell them "You can charter it out and it pays for your use." This is a lie.

It's either your plane, or a business/capital asset you have leased into service management with someone else. If you want it to 'make money' it is no longer your plane to use, unless it happens to be sitting with nothing on the books and you want to take it up real quick to see how it's holding up and what it needs.

You can have one or the other, not both. That said, I have seen a few, (very few), leaseback programs that worked well for both parties, and they had a few things in common. First off, as mentioned above, the plane was a capital asset only and the owner had no emotional attachment to it. As long as wear and tear is within planned levels of depreciation, no worries, it doesn't have to stay 'new looking'. Second, the operator, not owner, was responsible for maintenance. This means the owner only takes around 25%-30%, but they get that off every hour period, they only collect, they never outlay for maintenance and repair below a certain threshold.

Here is the most important factor they all had in common though..., they all had prior, years long, relationships and trusted the FBO because the FBO had earned that trust, and the FBO took proper care of the equipment.
 
Last edited:
Henning said:
Cherokee 6 can rake cash in the "Mile High Club" rides.
Click to expand...
That also requires a Commercial or Commercial Except Instruction/Rental insurance policy, as well as a 91.147 LoA from the FSDO, not to mention a drug-testing program for the Commercial/ATP pilots doing the flying. That's a lot of investment and hassle for just trying to generate some revenue for a little-used plane.

Personally, I think the best solution would be to bring in an additional partner or two on the plane.
 
Tom-D said:
You do realize that most of the part 135 air taxi operators in Alaska are single engine aircraft ?

Usage can be increased by renting the aircraft your self, no need for getting a flight school involved.
Click to expand...

....and a 135 cert is next to impossible and expensive to get.
 
cirrusmx said:
....and a 135 cert is next to impossible and expensive to get.
Click to expand...
"Next to impossible"? Hardly, if you fill all the squares properly (it happens all the time), although it will take time and effort, and the aircraft owner may not qualify as a 135 pilot. Expensive? Yes, there's definitely a significant investment, and you lose a good bit of flexibility over the airplane's operation and maintenance.
 
Ron Levy said:
That also requires a Commercial or Commercial Except Instruction/Rental insurance policy, as well as a 91.147 LoA from the FSDO, not to mention a drug-testing program for the Commercial/ATP pilots doing the flying. That's a lot of investment and hassle for just trying to generate some revenue for a little-used plane.

Personally, I think the best solution would be to bring in an additional partner or two on the plane.
Click to expand...

When you run a Mile High Service, the plane becomes little used no longer. It's a pretty good cash flow operation and typically will book 3 rides a week in a major metro.
 
When it comes to leasebacks, many people look at "how much money am I going to make" whereas, most of the time, the best result is "how much less money am I going to spend."

If your plan is to rent your airplane, insurance will triple, regardless of if you intend to rent it out yourself or through a flight school. Most leaseback arrangements will require 100-hour inspections as the operator will want the flexibility they allow.

Sightseeing or charter is possible, but a lot of time would need to be invested. The airplane can be put on an existing company's charter certificate, but I'm not sure what your local demand is for charter 182s. Additionally, 135 adds some complications maintenance wise, including TBOs becoming mandatory--both by flight hours and calendar time!

Sounds like a sale or partnership is the best solution unless the owner is interested in putting in a considerable amount of effort and money, or taking a big risk (leaseback).
 
So what's to stop the OP from taking the unused 182 and finding a job like flying pipeline or hotshot oilpatch with it? Other than a commercial ticket ...

Kill two birds. :dunno:

Make $$$$ and fly the wings off the plane.
 
It'll make far more money dropping tandems

Also pt91
 
James331 said:
It'll make far more money dropping tandems

Also pt91
Click to expand...


That'd be the way to go if it's part 91 all the way...

The only bugaboo's are insurance and MX.

Nobody wants to wake up and realize they're working for an insurance company and Aviall while they take home $5 bucks an hour. :dunno:
 
txflyer said:
That'd be the way to go if it's part 91 all the way...

The only bugaboo's are insurance and MX.

Nobody wants to wake up and realize they're working for an insurance company and Aviall while they take home $5 bucks an hour. :dunno:
Click to expand...

There are plenty of guys who would be ecstatic with that situation.:lol:
 
txflyer said:
So what's to stop the OP from taking the unused 182 and finding a job like flying pipeline or hotshot oilpatch with it?
Click to expand...

I can address the oilpatch hotshot...some of our equipment will fit in a 182, much of it won't. The stuff you need right now like fishing tools or a mud motor just won't fit. Some folks were doing specialist service calls in aircraft but it's never really caught on.
 
Clark1961 said:
I can address the oilpatch hotshot...some of our equipment will fit in a 182, much of it won't. The stuff you need right now like fishing tools or a mud motor just won't fit. Some folks were doing specialist service calls in aircraft but it's never really caught on.
Click to expand...



Noted, and I imagine the oil patch isn't that 'hot' right now either ... :nonod:
 
txflyer said:
Noted, and I imagine the oil patch isn't that 'hot' right now either ... :nonod:
Click to expand...

The industry uses a lot of air freight but last mile is usually truck or boat. There was one time we flew a 1,500# DSA to a rig and another time when it was a load of watermelons...:D
 
I think the only real way to reduce the cost (big difference from making money) is to find one or two non-equity partners. Make sure that your insurance will allow it without going commercial.

Of course, you can find true equity partners also.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top